Apathy Getting Attacked For Killing PW

So, Square-Enix: Logging Hate is Legal AND Legitimate?? We need to talk...
(I could've put this as a "Flamage Part 11", but part of the reason I didn't is that the bulk of this post is going to the Special Task Force.)

In light of the actions of the Special Task Force and other disciplinary entities in the last two weeks, I can only say that I have been encouraged that steps may finally be taken to curtail high-end player abuse of the game...

... that is, until I found the official POL website last night, and the most recent article thereon.

(As of about 5:30 PM PST on February 5, it still is the most recent story -- a link to the Allakazham article on the defeat of Pandemonium Warden by the Apathy linkshell on Remora.)

I am calling for an investigation of this "victory" as a matter of misconduct by the Special Task Force. I believe the Apathy linkshell (those members who took part in this fight) should be penalized under "Actions Which Might Result in an Unfair Advantage" -- as stated in Article Q12652 in your Q&A on your official site.

The specific charge against the "victors" is the following, and I quote from your site:

"[Game Exploits]

Players who take advantage of in-game mechanics not intended as normal means of game play may have their account suspended and all items or experience obtained through those means confiscated."

I am specifically referring to the concept of what has become called "logging hate". My understanding of it is as follows:

At three points in the final Pandemonium Warden fight, PW puts out a series of avatars and then casts Astral Flow (the summoner 2-hour). If the Blood Pacts are then allowed to resolve, everyone wipes and the fight fails.

So, apparently, what Apathy did then was:

-- One person, probably a Red Mage (almost certainly a PLD/RDM, probably), casts Area of Effect Damage over Time spells to gain massive emnity on Pandemonium Warden and all the avatars in play.

-- Said player then runs like Hell. Not a problem to this point -- this often happens in Dynamis.

-- Here's the problem: All other players then log out of the game, by pre-arranged agreement.

-- The player being chased by the mob of monsters dies, sacrificing himself to allow the party the needed time to log out. Logging out clears the list of all players in the fight with emnity to Pandemonium Warden. With no remaining players alive with emnity to Pandemonium Warden, the NM will go back to his spawn point and, essentially, stop. No further aggressive action will be taken until someone is aggressive to it. During this time, everyone else logs back in (the timeframe I heard was 2 minutes), and the sacrificial lamb is raised and healed.

Repeat as needed to avoid Astral Flow wiping the entire linkshell.

The use of logging out to avoid Astral Flow and to clear all emnity to Pandemonium Warden is the use of a game mechanic (logging out) not intended as a means of normal game play.

There is only one normal game-play use of logging out: to leave Final Fantasy XI. The use of logging out to clear hate, as well as to force Pandemonium Warden to cease attacking, is not only an exploitation of the code of logging out, but also of the code of the specific traits of Pandemonium Warden (in that it ceases all attacks and will not attack further, once it's emnity list is clear, until new emnity is made against it).

This action is a clear violation of the rules against Game Exploits, quoted above.

Two weeks ago, you took the strongest action yet against long-time players who have been cheating the system. The posting of this article to the official FFXI website gives not only legality to this strategy, but legitimacy as well.

That cannot be allowed to stand.

Not only is the strategy illegal, by your own statements in your Q&A (unless you really want to try to claim there are other normal game-play uses of logging out of the game -- and I would like to hear them now if there are!!), but the posting of the "victory" on the official site gives the strategy legitimacy (something not even the Kraken Club DRK strategy had when Absolute Virtue was made a 2-hour situation).

The article must come down. The Special Task Force needs to investigate this. The "champions", as it were, need to be suspended, if not banned.

Failure to do so will leave players with a question which I am certain you do not want them to have. That question being: Since, if this strategy is allowed, Square-Enix allows and encourages the use of only those exploits which they CHOOSE to have allowed, which exploits are allowed and which are not?

If you want legitimacy regarding keeping the game fair, that is a question you must avoid at all cost. Investigate this "victory".

(On edit: And for those who don't think I'm serious -- and this isn't the last e-mail I'm running to SE damned soon, this was sent to the STF from the Service and Support link (with small editing for clarity and to get it down to space... 6:21 PM PST 2/5/09)

Here is the link the above:

http://darkrenegadesmusings.blogspot.com/2009/02/so-square-enix-logging-hate-is-legal.html

This is something i found on BG, which i found interesting.
This not my own personal post.
The link sends you to who's it is.

tl;dr

However, I still give mad props to Apathy for defeating it regardless of what methods were used.

They might have not killed it the "right" way, but they still killed PW regardless, hats off to them.

^
This

I agree with the article!

Why? Simple reason. I'm jealous I can't do it.

Nuff said.

Wait, is this another argument about the duping bannings? Because this sentence:



Makes me think it is. Another attempt to get SE to reverse those bannings? Or "if this is legal than that should be too" kind of deal?

Just sad this person has nothing better to do than QQ over that. gratz to apathy.

If you managed to get everyone banned from Apathy because of this, then you will get everyone banned who had to sleep a mob or link, then /logout to erase hate.

Because by your definition of what Apathy did, those who had to sleep/logout so they wouldn't die and had to HP and lose all that exp did the exact same thing as Apathy. There is no difference between the two.

O.O
*Pokes Korpg with a stick.*
He IS alive!

Wait, I was declared dead?

Haters will always keep hating. Legality of the tactics is debatable. PLD sacrificing himself for the group is something every PLD should and would do.

The logging thing.... debatable.

Case in point. Ive gone BST to "test" the strength of some NM to see if I can solo it. If I see its killing my pet too quickly I will logout and let my pet die. Same kinda concept. Like I said though its debatable but I dont think they should be penalized for it.

Yeah, not posting for a couple days = legally dead on a forum. >.>

I had nothing to post, so I didn't.

I don't go around spreading drama, but I am getting a laugh from that one thread though.

BTW

This is something i found on BG, which i found interesting.
This not my own personal post.
The link sends you to who's it is.

http://darkrenegadesmusings.blogspot.com/2009/02/so-square-enix-logging-hate-is-legal.html

all hate mail here please =P

That would explain somethings, like the time difference between your post and the date of the post.

ya =P lol

O.oa So why didn't you put that you found someone else's rant and letter to SE at the very start of the post? :P

I love the comments to that article on blogger, this very first one:



Made me lol ^^

lol

Wow... Just wow. The original poster of that is a complete moron.

People have been using logout for all sorts of fights forever. I know several shells that still do it on Kirin to avoid the Black Mages getting mega owned. People still use it on King Behemoth...

Nobody gave a ***then. They only care now because it was used to avoid Pandemonium Warden's killer moves. It's jealousy, that's all it is. Jealousy that Apathy achieved it and they're clutching at straws to darken their achievement. It's not like logging out killed it. They still had to work for that.

It's pathetic. Sad jealousy at it's best. Don't hate the poster, pity him. I bet he's never even seen PW, let alone fought it himself.

PS. I'm flattered to be quoted Tbest, /bow. Worrying how suitable that quote is for this occasion!

I zoned when i was level 12 cause I aggro'ed a gob in Valk QQ

Hope I won't get b& :((((

Sit, QQ, Sit. Good dog.

I'm sure that's a big part of it, but if you read through the comments he says in his rebuttals 'Well, if they're gonna ban people for duping salvage gear how is this any different?'...which leads me to believe this is just someone trying to stir up ***in an attempt to get SE to review those recent bannings. He also claims that he's 'just trying to keep the game fair', but yeah. I admit I didn't read through all of it and kinda skimmed (tl;dr for sure) but I know I saw that ***come up a few times. Like the other guy said, I think this is just a duper (or is friends with some) that has an inordinate amount of sand in his vagina over it.

I assume then that the original poster, if he had his way, would clear the game of close to 75% of the people who play, considering 1/4th the people on the game has used the "logging" stratagy while soloing/duo/trio to make sure the mob isn't putting foot to head and pressing firmly.


I don't think its possible for me to agree more with this... if your sad about Apathy boring out PW back end, you need another hobby.
As for SE, if they penalize "loggers" as a standard action from now on, you can believe that I'll be taking my business elsewhere, I don't feel like having a suspended character because SE put in exp loss for death and I don't feel like eating it at every available opportunity the game gives me. Sometimes you just can't run away, sleepga and warp, or find a zone camp for hairy situations.

I think the original writer was banned and is trying to get other ppl in trouble, cause he's lvl12 seeking in the dunes atm. Banned for logging hate? "Logging Hate" is a term ppl use. "Duping Salvage" isn't.
Maybe this would work on AV ^^

Just something like to add, Apathy of remora also practiced doing PW. They just didn't decide one day, "Hey lets go kill PW with the logout strat." No, they practiced, they tryed different strategies and keept on trying. I see no reason why people bag on them for logging out to kill it? They deserved the win, who cares if they logged out? They proved PW could be taken down, after people bag on SE for making a mob that people Said could not be taken down.
Should also be added, I know Apathy failed this many time before one having PW around 10% HP (not sure on HP, but was close) but rand out of time. Which even that deserves a /clap. So Congrats to Apathy for showing everyone that not everything is impossible.

Let's not even entertain the notion that Square Enix will act on this. The poster's just wasting his time. Let him. No need to start discussing end of the days because loggers are going to be banned.

She is speaking of the original poster not me. =P at least i hope.

I was referring to this.