Caladbolg Vs Redemption

So I've heard good things about both, seen some posts of Redemption's WS out performing Guillotine on some things. Also that Caladbolg's WS blows Redemption's out of the water.

Anyone have links to this info they could share?

Thoughts and opinions?

Please don't post "this one cause its better" without the links of screenshots and actual information, not just something you read off of wiki.

Thanks everyone
-Xiong

I don't think we have hard data on Torcleaver yet, just some epeen screenshots. Until we know fTP and WSC for both, along with how potent Quietus' Ignores Defense mechanic is, it's tough to say. Quietus will likely scale better against high-level/defense NMs, but if there's enough raw power in Torcleaver... who knows?

O.O Quietus' Ignores Defence!!?? This be news to me. What does Torclever do? I hope it igores the mob and automatically give you all the drops you need. lol. Now thats made of win.

From the above comment, you can see I have no experience with either. But I will add that both weapons look cool. lol

wow

In the Quietus thread someone linked to a Torcleaver parse in Einherjar where it averaged about 2k iirc.

When I say hard data, I mean controlled tests on monsters with known stats and constant buffs or lack thereof. Not a situation with a variety of mobs with unknown stats and buffs/debuffs up for an unknown percentage of the parse.

Exactly >< The first quietus numbers I've seen were on MNK campaign monsters... Not exactly the best target for a data mine.

More concrete data is definitely needed.

If anyone finds any concrete data please reply and bump.

get me 50 carabosse gems to get a caladbolg and i'll get you your data

Just tell me when you need my help and I'm there amigo.

Carabosse is a ***! Need more DD or better atmas to take it down :(

In a parse i was putting out avg ws as 2.2k dmg with torcleaver in einherjar. Also with through testing it is well worth it to stack attack gear over vit. there is not enough gear with both str and vit to cap fSTR against most mobs for torcleaver to do consistent damage. if someone has a quietus parse post it up.

It's kind of Ironic that Redemption has no redeeming qualities.

I'm building one at the moment pretty sure Caladbolg wipes the floor with it but it could be nice for High Defense stuff.

Even for high defense mobs, it still won't be really that good. At 100% tp it ignores 10% of the defense, so not really gonna help you a whole lot.

got caladbolg, tell me what you want tests on

Finding out the ftp is really whats going to be the solution to knowing which is potentially better. Atm im looking at something around 3.6 and up beating out caladbolg.

Due to ppl saying they are parsing better numbers with calad(although nothing worth considering since the tests were done with too many variables) this leads me to believe that perhaps quietus is going to have a low ftp or maybe the mods are off?

Anyone have an ideal quietus/torcleaver setup they can post up, one for outside abyssea.

I've never had a situation where Quietus beats Torcleaver, even on High Defense mobs, so yeah. Granted, I only have the WoE scythe, but the WS's between the two are not dissimilar, aside from 7MND and STR. Oddly, both still beat weapon skills like SPinning SLash which are supposed to have those massive Attack bonuses applied to the weapon skill. It also might be worth noting, Guillotine still fares a lot better in Abyssea with, especially, Atma of Apocalypse, bringing the likelyhood of a multiattack on any given weapon skill to around a 1:3 chance, Torcleaver still averages higher however.


I will say, that it's possible for Redemption to beat Calad much later, by virtue of it's STR mod that alone, is nearly equal to Caladbolg's VIT mod (40% vs. 60%), making it a little more WS-Build friendly. Also, the added MND mod benefits immensely from the Twilight Armors.

I can't see the fTP of Quietus being any lower than 3.4, so I think the estimate of "Beating Calad at 3.6" is a little generous. Guillotine's adjusted fTP is around 3.8, though with very weak mods.

Still, nothing can help how *** ugly it looks, so that alone is reason enough to avoid it, lol.

My Torcleaver set up, i'm like 0/15 on twilight still, only thing i'm missing. I use it in and out of abyssea.

If you want a pretty all around Torcleaver build, check out my gear set under my character. I believe there isn't anything that can be better outside abyssea, inside abyssea, you should be capped on fstr so swap out heafoc gloves for either Versa with 4+ VIT augment, or AF3+2 hands, or ares hands for VIT or attack. If you have question on the logic behind the build, let me know. Note that attack is extremely extremely important with this WS due to no ratio bonus. And you definitely want bombcore over bomblet and most likely a VIT ring over rajas assuming you don't need the stp.

In addition, just in case you don't know this yet. The mod for the two WS are as the follows:

Torcleaver, ftp 4.75 at 100%, 5.75 at 200%, 6.5 at 300%. VIT 60%
Quietus, ftp 3.00, ignore 10% def at 100%, 30% at 200%, 50% at 300%. STR 40%, MND 40%

With moonshade +25 tp bonus earring and snow belt/gorget, my Torcleaver is at 5.2 ftp at 100%.

The two were tested to death pretty much, so the figures are pretty set in stone. The disillusion that quietus have higher ftp is due to the fact that most of the time, unless you have outside buff, you will be close to capped on ratio but not quite there on most mobs. So the 10% brings you to cap in most case and gives your eyeball the impression that it is about 3.3-3.5 ftp. A fully buffed guillotine should come very close or top Quietus.

Okay I was curious, so snow gorget/belt does work with ws?

Snow/Light both work yea.

I cant stress how wrong this is.

i have the espafut +2 but im goin for the caladbolg right now. i alrdy got 22 carbosse gems 4 manning with my group. ill get it soon. i was going for quietus a long time ago but then i heard torcleaver is awesome and it is. my numbers with /thf on torcleaver is high. my highest is like 8k in abyssea. ive seen quietus screenshots and none of em were over 3k so idk maybe that guy was doin something wrong. quietus is definitely better on high def mobs like dragua, i gotta c that for myself tho. i know torcleaver does ***on dragua without sneak attack cuz i did it myself.

I do over 3k with quietus on a regular basis inside abyssea. Quietus is a very good WS.

Triple attacks are hardly "Regular", though they can be upwards of 25% with AoA and AoAO, but in that case, you're better off using Guillotine still, and scoring a triple attack 2/3 of the time, if not taking in account the Aftermath effect of Redemption.

i know its off topic but any1 think the 95 cap is comin with this march update and if it does will 400 combat skill bring some new weapon skills? they'll prolly be shitty compared to the trial ones anyway

The cap isn't being raised for an update or two. SE has stated they'd like to rebalanced before moving on to 91+(Second hand "Confirmed Quote" so take that for what it is), which makes sense given the huge power discrepancy between certain jobs.