If FFXIV Fails... What Does That Mean For FFXI? |
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If FFXIV fails... what does that mean for FFXI?
Shiva.Flionheart said: All of these reviews are slating everything I like about XIV :/ And most of the complaints could actually target XI easily. Especially with the "Where do I go next" and stuff. XI is JUST as confusing. It's like critics just want an MMO on "easy-mode" like WoW. That whole Gamespot review was just screaming "XI" at me, lol. SE has plenty of other games.. so they won't go in the hole if ffxiv was to fail.. yes it was a major time sync for them but it wouldn't break the company... hopefully if it was to fail they would put the people back on the ffxi staff and do something they have dread in the past.. something other games have done also.. kick the low end users... like PS2 users.. I know that is still a decent number.. but if this game wants to advance for years to come they will have to kick someone...
Ramuh.Haseyo said: Shiva.Flionheart said: All of these reviews are slating everything I like about XIV :/ And most of the complaints could actually target XI easily. Especially with the "Where do I go next" and stuff. XI is JUST as confusing. It's like critics just want an MMO on "easy-mode" like WoW. That whole Gamespot review was just screaming "XI" at me, lol. You have to understand, SE said that they are not targeting the general MMO market. However, their decision to keep FFXI going means they don't want to target the entire FFXI audience. What they wanted was to target the FINAL FANTASY audience. The problem is that this is NOT Final Fantasy XI. They should have learned that while making a game "casual" (in the sense that FFXIV is now) but keeping a lot of the things that made FFXI what it is would conflict with eachother. They have essentially made a boring solo grinder. To be honest, if they fixed the way parties work in FFXIV and made skill points a set number after each battle instead of some points you gain by chance, then I'd have absolutely no problem running around the world grinding millions of mobs in a group. Afterall, why the hell do you think I played FFXI since release? That being said, I'm definitely still rooting for this game. However, somewhere deep down inside of me wants to see this game absolutely fail and SE lose a ton of money, because frankly ever since Enix joined they have not put out a single quality product and they need to change this (FFXI was in development before Enix.) Just my 2 cents.
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Oh I know it's still bad step in direction. It's just funny how previous XI players are complaining about stuff since more than half of the issues in that review are in XI as well. As for people new to the FF MMO world, it would seem far worse.
Phoenix.Authority said: That being said, I'm definitely still rooting for this game. However, somewhere deep down inside of me wants to see this game absolutely fail and SE lose a ton of money, because frankly ever since Enix joined they have not put out a single quality product and they need to change this (FFXI was in development before Enix.) Just my 2 cents. That's part of the reason why I think I dislike FFXIV too. After SNES I never really got back into console systems. I was thrilled when FFVII was being released for PC as well. Then, even though the actually game imo sucked hardcore, when FFVIII came out for PC too it seemed like Square was heading in the right direction. Playstation and PC releases, awesome! Sadly though after that is when things started to go down hill. FFIX was PS only. No other Square games were being released for PC too. Eventually it was evident that I had to get a lolconsole again if I wanted to play any more FF games. So for almost a year I had a PS2 so I could play IX and X. With the release of FFXI on PC it seemed like a light and the end of the tunnel again. When I heard it was going to be online, I got even more excited. I remember getting FFXI when it first came out for PC. I didn't start to play it though until summer of 2003. I remember it being such a grind to play, I think I got to like level 18 WAR, mostly solo, very few parties, that by end of 2003 I just lost interest. It took me until summer 2007 to pick it up again after hearing from friends how much better it had gotten over those past 4 years. Meanwhile by this time it was evident that SE wasn't going to release any regular games for PC. TL;DR: WTF SE?! Tease us PC users with 7 and 8, then 11 and 14! Why not just make them all for the PC? Another quarrel with 14, is the whole marketing of it. It was never more evident than with 14 that SE's new business model was lure people with pre-order gimmicks. Definitely a contributing factor that lead to a pre-mature release. It seemed they cared more about getting as much money from you as possible before the game even came out, than releasing a quality game. What's even worse is the people who fell for these tactics, not only blindly defending the game, but bashing FFXI, trying to declare it dead, a waste of time and money, and mock anyone who didn't immediately jump on the FFXIV bandwagon. Pretty sure that's why I lol'd hard when I read the reviews in this thread. It really wasn't about the game itself, it was more about the sheep who blindly fell into its marketing scheme and turned on FFXI. It's sad to see a company whose games I loved growing up turn into a company that now doesn't care about the user base and rather go with quality to make a game good, uses lame marketing schemes.
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im sure 14 will have a following, but i highly doubt it will ever be close to 11.... they rushed to release like you said, and i think that will be the downfall of the game..
like so many other games that came out and failed within the last couple years, 14 is no different in its lacking of content and basic mmo fundamentals. For instance look at Aion and LoTR, they were supposed to be great games, revolutionary and super popular... and both totally bombed after initial release Right now lotro being ftp they claim they have doubled their revenue or something.
Phoenix.Authority said: Right now lotro being ftp they claim they have doubled their revenue or something. even though the trend for failed games is to go free to play... i dont know if SE would ever do such a thing... they would probably totally scrap it all together, if that was the case. I just dont want to see FFXI die, there is so much more content that could be put into this game to keep it thriving Phoenix.Degs said: Phoenix.Authority said: Right now lotro being ftp they claim they have doubled their revenue or something. like? Phoenix.Degs said: I just dont want to see FFXI die, there is so much more content that could be put into this game to keep it thriving @above poster, copypasta from FFXIclopedia (spoilering): Ramuh.Sagittario said: Phoenix.Degs said: Phoenix.Authority said: Right now lotro being ftp they claim they have doubled their revenue or something. like? content wise.. like fredjan pointed out the far north (orc/gigas empire), far west... far east (more ToAU area's) far south(mithran homeland)... there is a map on wiki that show's the entire world.. its flippin huge in comparison to what we have currently with a few more expansions they could make this game the flippin heat for years to come I think one thing they should do, is allow people to change their race and name... something within a story line would be fine with me to make it more realistic... but that would be an epic win for SE if they did that The thing with just adding a bunch of content is it would just make the current low population stay. New content won't draw in new players. Hell, that's just more of a reason not to start XI - more mindless grinding. SE seems to want to attract a new, large crowd. XI is still geared towards hardcore players.
with adding new content though, they could change the grind in some way...
i think that adding the new area's would bring back some players to the game.. many people have been waiting to see these area's for a long time. they could do it like how guild wars does their expansions... that you dont need the old content to do the new stuff, thusly start fresh in the new land... and make it a different way to level up there.
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I don't think we'll know if XIV "failed" or not for a year or more. I have to say I don't think it's looking good for a smashing success, unless they secretly have an asston of content and tech patches waiting in the wings, and I find that highly doubtful. They just aren't moving very fast on this stuff, and they are significantly behind from where other failed MMO's have launched over the last few years.
I don't think any of us can truly predict what'll happen, though. I'm hopeful, but I think it's safe to say we're not looking at another WoW here, in terms of subscribers or revenue. But saying whether the game will survive at all or not is completely beyond me. I think it'll be around for at least a year or two, unless something horrible happens. That does give them time to patch it up, if not hit it out of the park. I'm still having tepid fun! Don't get me wrong. But at rank 17, it feels like I'm out of stuff to do. I don't have interest in crafting or other classes. The fatigue system has raped me down to like 500 exp gain every hour. I'm out of anima and guardian favor. I've done every leve I can do a dozen times or more. I've done the two available quests at my rank. And according to the dats, I've either seen or already own just about every piece of gear in the game. Seriously? Your coolest near-level-cap weapon is an iron longsword? For want of something to do, I bought myself a suit of rank 37 armor last night. (Not that I'll be able to use it for months at this rate.) No real reason -- just desperate for something new. It's pretty disheartening, and I hope they fire-hose in a crapton of content and tech improvements pronto. As in, "next week" pronto, not "an expansion a year from now" pronto.
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Change the grind? Have you not been in FFXI lately? Have we all forgot what grind is? What about the days of NO B@TCHINg about what someone was wearing cause it took you 2 days to form a decent exp party? What about the days when SAM and DRK or DRG where veristal and inner changable? Or like some of the older base, you had 4 sets of gear to almost any issue? FFXI has gotten ALOT easier and is still getting easy. You can hold on any job and sync to your targeted level in, what i see alot, gimped or pointless gear. Yes they do need to add all the content that was left out, even with the new base it will cause people to wonder what and how everything happened. Giving a simple storyline is why games fail. No suprises, no shadowy figure pulling stings from abroad, no climax, no real closer to any of it.
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: I don't think we'll know if XIV "failed" or not for a year or more. I have to say I don't think it's looking good for a smashing success, unless they secretly have an asston of content and tech patches waiting in the wings, and I find that highly doubtful. They just aren't moving very fast on this stuff, and they are significantly behind from where other failed MMO's have launched over the last few years. I don't think any of us can truly predict what'll happen, though. I'm hopeful, but I think it's safe to say we're not looking at another WoW here, in terms of subscribers or revenue. But saying whether the game will survive at all or not is completely beyond me. I think it'll be around for at least a year or two, unless something horrible happens. That does give them time to patch it up, if not hit it out of the park. I'm still having tepid fun! Don't get me wrong. But at rank 17, it feels like I'm out of stuff to do. I don't have interest in crafting or other classes. The fatigue system has raped me down to like 500 exp gain every hour. I'm out of anima and guardian favor. I've done every leve I can do a dozen times or more. I've done the two available quests at my rank. And according to the dats, I've either seen or already own just about every piece of gear in the game. Seriously? Your coolest near-level-cap weapon is an iron longsword? For want of something to do, I bought myself a suit of rank 37 armor last night. (Not that I'll be able to use it for months at this rate.) No real reason -- just desperate for something new. It's pretty disheartening, and I hope they fire-hose in a crapton of content and tech improvements pronto. As in, "next week" pronto, not "an expansion a year from now" pronto. Asking for more rushed content is just brewin' up trouble. Just look at how that started the game!
Phoenix.Stridentzephon said: Change the grind? Have you not been in FFXI lately? Have we all forgot what grind is? What about the days of NO B@TCHINg about what someone was wearing cause it took you 2 days to form a decent exp party? What about the days when SAM and DRK or DRG where veristal and inner changable? Or like some of the older base, you had 4 sets of gear to almost any issue? FFXI has gotten ALOT easier and is still getting easy. You can hold on any job and sync to your targeted level in, what i see alot, gimped or pointless gear. Yes they do need to add all the content that was left out, even with the new base it will cause people to wonder what and how everything happened. Giving a simple storyline is why games fail. No suprises, no shadowy figure pulling stings from abroad, no climax, no real closer to any of it. XI at least had a search feature to make parties, they just took a regular grind and made it harder. Lakshmi.Jaerik said: I don't think we'll know if XIV "failed" or not for a year or more. I have to say I don't think it's looking good for a smashing success, unless they secretly have an asston of content and tech patches waiting in the wings, and I find that highly doubtful. They just aren't moving very fast on this stuff, and they are significantly behind from where other failed MMO's have launched over the last few years. I don't think any of us can truly predict what'll happen, though. I'm hopeful, but I think it's safe to say we're not looking at another WoW here, in terms of subscribers or revenue. But saying whether the game will survive at all or not is completely beyond me. I think it'll be around for at least a year or two, unless something horrible happens. That does give them time to patch it up, if not hit it out of the park. I'm still having tepid fun! Don't get me wrong. But at rank 17, it feels like I'm out of stuff to do. I don't have interest in crafting or other classes. The fatigue system has raped me down to like 500 exp gain every hour. I'm out of anima and guardian favor. I've done every leve I can do a dozen times or more. I've done the two available quests at my rank. And according to the dats, I've either seen or already own just about every piece of gear in the game. Seriously? Your coolest near-level-cap weapon is an iron longsword? For want of something to do, I bought myself a suit of rank 37 armor last night. (Not that I'll be able to use it for months at this rate.) No real reason -- just desperate for something new. It's pretty disheartening, and I hope they fire-hose in a crapton of content and tech improvements pronto. As in, "next week" pronto, not "an expansion a year from now" pronto. should try leveling more stuff lol Lakshmi.Jaerik said: I don't think we'll know if XIV "failed" or not for a year or more. I have to say I don't think it's looking good for a smashing success, unless they secretly have an asston of content and tech patches waiting in the wings, and I find that highly doubtful. They just aren't moving very fast on this stuff, and they are significantly behind from where other failed MMO's have launched over the last few years. I don't think any of us can truly predict what'll happen, though. I'm hopeful, but I think it's safe to say we're not looking at another WoW here, in terms of subscribers or revenue. But saying whether the game will survive at all or not is completely beyond me. I think it'll be around for at least a year or two, unless something horrible happens. That does give them time to patch it up, if not hit it out of the park. I'm still having tepid fun! Don't get me wrong. But at rank 17, it feels like I'm out of stuff to do. I don't have interest in crafting or other classes. The fatigue system has raped me down to like 500 exp gain every hour. I'm out of anima and guardian favor. I've done every leve I can do a dozen times or more. I've done the two available quests at my rank. And according to the dats, I've either seen or already own just about every piece of gear in the game. Seriously? Your coolest near-level-cap weapon is an iron longsword? For want of something to do, I bought myself a suit of rank 37 armor last night. (Not that I'll be able to use it for months at this rate.) No real reason -- just desperate for something new. It's pretty disheartening, and I hope they fire-hose in a crapton of content and tech improvements pronto. As in, "next week" pronto, not "an expansion a year from now" pronto. It's almost as if FFXIV is designed specifically with the idea of people holding an FFXI and FFXIV account. While FFXIV has a lot of grind-progression in this early stage, and many roadblocks to prevent you from really blasting into the cap, FFXI is the exact opposite, with almost nothing to do outside of Abyssea. I find jumping between the two, actually keeps both games quite fresh for the time being, and FFXIV is good enough, that I am still deeply considering just investing in a PS3 for the game. (And of course, the Team Ico HD collection, and The Last Guardian) Odin.Zicdeh said: FFXIV failing (I honestly don't think it will, I think it'll maintain a niche subscriber base like FFXI) would be devastating for Square Enix, and thus FFXI. No questions asked. an MMO tanking would be bad for SE and bad for SE means bad for FFXI. Cuts everywhere and if it tanks "BAD" cut everything and keep all their monez / investment in the guaranteed stuff
If FFXIV fails, and Squeenix starts losing money, they will announce a FFVII remake and basically make more money than they'll ever need for the rest of their lives. Seriously, I've had this conversation with my friends many times, and I always end at this conclusion. If Square Enix ever flops big time (and lets face it, the last few games they've put out haven't been as big in terms of sales), all they have to do is announce a FFVII remake. It's their ace in the hole, a trump card. with it, they can never fail. Even if it sucks, everyone will buy it immediately, leading to a global standstill of people buying every PS3 (or 4 if it's at that point) Xbox 360 (or next one, same thing), and copy of said game at the same time and not doing anything but running through it. The internet will stop, the wheels of business will grind to a halt, the very systems that govern our daily lives will cease to function while every person on the planet plays that game.
It seems like there are a lot of people out there who are just jumping on the "come on 14... FAIL" bandwagon and are almost hoping it fails, and NOW. SE hate is like any other large company hate, a lot of points are valid, but people tend to gloss over the good points. Personally I don't know what I expected 14 to be... I think I thought I was going to turn on the game and get blown away by the most amazing uber thing ever since SE should have learned lessons from 11 and made the perfect game; but that was never likely to actually happen. 14 needs some time and real development devoted to it while listening to what the players want... although people will still find things to complain about, at least maybe they can get it somewhat right.
The damn thing just needed to be taken completely offline during beta, the designers take into consideration the player feedback, then redesign a couple dozen systems, add in more storyline, then give it another go... sure they wouldn't have had the game up for another year, and it still may not have been perfect, but it would have been better than what we have now. Going along with what Jaerik said with the items... the game just feels too generic and that there is nothing special about it. Iron longsword... they couldn't have come up with anything better than that? I guess I'm just used to 11 where equipment with generic "leather x" or "darksteel y" are ***and equipment with names that have some meaning are the ones with neat stats and it makes it just that more interesting to have it. Thoughtlessness just seems to be 14 in general. Back on topic... 14 actually brought me back to 11... I re-activated my account and content ID's a week or so after buying 14 as I realized I was going to be bored, so now SE is getting twice the money out of me versus if they would have just made 14 good. So in my case 14 being bad is actually good for 11... or just good for SE overall. IF 14 fails, which again as Jaerik said we probably won't know for a year or so... will it be bad for 11? Who knows... thats a long time from now... SE in that time may sink so much of their time in money into trying to save the Titanic that they neglect 11 and the player base will fall off and it may just stay that same course. Would I like to see an updated version of 11 graphics wise with another large expansion which truly expands the world of 11 and not just adds a scary sky to a current area with new mobs? Yeah I sure would... I've enjoyed 11 and am having fun getting back into it and I hope it stays around for a long while... maybe SE will look at 14 and divert some funds back to 11 to avoid a drop in the player base, maybe they already have a true expansion in the works... maybe not. I just want a fun game to play... whether it be 11 or 14... I don't care at this point which one... I would play FFXI more if they added new content besides abyssea. I simply like FFXIV more because it's new content and there's plenty to do IMO. I also don't like sticking to one class either...
that video review was pretty damn harsh.... you FF14 players, any truth to all of that? I mean it did have a lot of footage to go with it, idk....sounds like this game isn't nearly as bad as 11 when it started (i played 1 month after NA release, and it only had the really bad "fog" glitch..that made me put it down for a couple weeks, til it was cleared up)
Ifrit.Eikechi said: that video review was pretty damn harsh.... you FF14 players, any truth to all of that? It should be noted these are the worst scores -- by a significant amount -- they have given to any MMO at release that I could find. Similarly, it's averaging 1.5 out of 5 stars across hundreds of JP user reviews, with thousands of concurring users, and seems to be already marked down 30%. I'm hopeful for the game's future notwithstanding, but I may cancel before my 30 days are up and wait ~6 months to see if it recovers.
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damn.... thats harsh.. what do you think about it personally Jaerik? You seem like a very logical cat, that can break ***down fairly well.
Ifrit.Eikechi said: damn.... thats harsh.. what do you think about it personally Jaerik? You seem like a very logical cat, that can break ***down fairly well.
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