I don't think people mean to hate on 11. And when people say the game is dead I don't think they mean the servers are going to shut down tomorrow.
I think its just simple inevitability. They will only remain up as long as they are making a profit. And you need subscribers to make a profit.
I stopped playing 11 cause I just don't have anyone to do stuff with. Most of the people I knew have left and the two or three that I still see sometimes are in a uber leet linkshell I guess or just casually signing on to stand around. Which is what I end up doing. I love the game. I love the world, and the community can be awesome compared to other MMOs.
But these days, when I do log on every couple weeks or months, I stand around in town and see less and less people around every time. I see next to no shouts. I look at the fact that I don't have the latest cutting edge gear so no one will want to invite me to do anything anyway to get the latest cutting edge gear. I've joined a couple linkshells and met some nice people but it never amounted to anything more then casual playing and helping each other with stuff for a week or whatever.
I think people are just trying to say.. Hey.. heads up guys.. FF14 ARR is getting a lot of praise from people. You could see a giant dip in the 11 player base. You should come give it a try.. Its easier for people to get into and its a new experience. If you don't like it then you can go back to 11.
If FFXIV Fails... What Does That Mean For FFXI?
If FFXIV fails... what does that mean for FFXI?
That's not what they're saying though, most of them seem to be trying to assure themselves that XI won't continue more than anything else.
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
That's not what they're saying though, most of them seem to be trying to assure themselves that XI won't continue more than anything else.
Saying XI is going to end isnt a stretch. its going to at some point, lol.
I thought people would know better than to sing praises of XIV before the final product is launched and the community (made up of people who aren't all old guard FFXI players) makes a final decision on if ARR is worth the subscription fees. Shall we go through the same embarrassment of having to defend 1.0 again?
Yes, the game looks fantastic, beta has been buzzing and as an old guard XI player seeing returning monsters and an updated FF world is amazing but make no mistake I'm worried on numerous levels about ARR and the type of MMO it wants to be. In a market where MMOs have been crashing and burning my judgement is reserved until I see for sure if SE can hope to compete this go around.
Just remember how SE treated FFXI when it was the new kid on the block and you'll start to see where the worries come from. Yoshi is only but one man in the machine known as SE.
Yes, the game looks fantastic, beta has been buzzing and as an old guard XI player seeing returning monsters and an updated FF world is amazing but make no mistake I'm worried on numerous levels about ARR and the type of MMO it wants to be. In a market where MMOs have been crashing and burning my judgement is reserved until I see for sure if SE can hope to compete this go around.
Just remember how SE treated FFXI when it was the new kid on the block and you'll start to see where the worries come from. Yoshi is only but one man in the machine known as SE.
[+]
Kimble2013 said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
That's not what they're saying though, most of them seem to be trying to assure themselves that XI won't continue more than anything else.
Saying XI is going to end isnt a stretch. its going to at some point, lol.
Nihilism isn't an argument, it's the absence of an argument
I am well aware of dual boxing getting a lot of things done lol. I have been doing it for quite some time and it works wonder helping some returning players getting tons of zone boss cleared in no time. I shared my exploit as summoner + grellow proc jobs on the official forum.
But I also know if you are fresh coming back, even trying to duo with another person, it won't be a walk in the park, at least not until you are fully merited, skilled up, minimum 2 good atmas, etc. That is still tons of work for returning player(s) alone or dual boxing. You are suffering the curse of knowledge - not realizing how hard it is when you are new and have to rely on wiki to figure a lot of things out (god bless wiki with its detailed info).
I rather the team sort this out on their own time, which they already stated they will focus on solo and small group content from this on and stop working on 18 players content. It was apparent SoA was not exactly well received and reive is nothing but an epic fail, hence tons of adjustments are coming to make it extremely solo friendly. Hopefully the gap is not even being made wider when they release Delve 2.0 - you must know this will come when everything else you do now will be rendered useless. Maybe not in the next 3 months, but soon enough. And by then if you return to the game, you will be so out of touch that the act of catching up will take awhile and even if you do, a new harder content with better gears are in town forcing you to repeat the whole process again...
FFXI is not WoW, it does not have the same ease when it comes to progression. They either need to embrace the whole WoW philosophy or slowly change the 10 years culture of the game, not dropping this SoA bomb on everyone lol.
But I also know if you are fresh coming back, even trying to duo with another person, it won't be a walk in the park, at least not until you are fully merited, skilled up, minimum 2 good atmas, etc. That is still tons of work for returning player(s) alone or dual boxing. You are suffering the curse of knowledge - not realizing how hard it is when you are new and have to rely on wiki to figure a lot of things out (god bless wiki with its detailed info).
I rather the team sort this out on their own time, which they already stated they will focus on solo and small group content from this on and stop working on 18 players content. It was apparent SoA was not exactly well received and reive is nothing but an epic fail, hence tons of adjustments are coming to make it extremely solo friendly. Hopefully the gap is not even being made wider when they release Delve 2.0 - you must know this will come when everything else you do now will be rendered useless. Maybe not in the next 3 months, but soon enough. And by then if you return to the game, you will be so out of touch that the act of catching up will take awhile and even if you do, a new harder content with better gears are in town forcing you to repeat the whole process again...
FFXI is not WoW, it does not have the same ease when it comes to progression. They either need to embrace the whole WoW philosophy or slowly change the 10 years culture of the game, not dropping this SoA bomb on everyone lol.
The large scale events are for the strongest players. Problem is casuals think they can get the gear too, but they can't and get discouraged. Maybe that's why they put 'item levels' into the new gear. Casuals are just too used to getting carried during events; it's not abyssea leeching to 99 anymore, your gear and skill matters now. If you can't do delves, then do the lower content and get stronger. Heck it's dbl plan drops still for salvage2, go get some of that.
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
I thought people would know better than to sing praises of XIV before the final product is launched and the community (made up of people who aren't all old guard FFXI players) makes a final decision on if ARR is worth the subscription fees. Shall we go through the same embarrassment of having to defend 1.0 again?
I don't intend to forget lol, as much as FF14 looks amazing at the beta stage and no doubt I will try it at launch, I also remember how SE treats FFXI. I think FF14 will have a moderate success at launch, and maybe more. They already plan at least phase 2 of ARR with expansion is due sometimes next year with PS4 launch. I know that it will be very user friendly at the beginning levels, but we still don't know how the end game will works. I mean if everyone reach level cap in 2-3 weeks, we all would want to know what is next to do... Yoshi is just one person in SE machinery, but as long as SE is convinced that they must rectify the FF name after being tarnished so badly with FF14 V.1. - I think it is safe to say that ARR will have at least a few good years before (if) crash and burn by the same greedy machine that is SE lol.
FFXI wasn't competing with nearly as many MMOs when it launched, that's the primary reason it succeeded to the extent it did. FFXI at launch was garbage, and most people will agree with that. FFXIV cannot pull the same ***and last 3 years: people have too many options.
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
That's not what they're saying though, most of them seem to be trying to assure themselves that XI won't continue more than anything else.
If FFXI ever approaching extinction level, all SE has to do is release Abyssea Golden Edition V2.0 Super Extra God Burst Mode everyone welcome and become invincible kill everything with one AOE extra special weapon skills. That itself will revitalize the game so quickly. Oh and additional kawaii cute useless costumes for the japanese players and the rain of panties events so everyone can run around in their new bikini costumes.
[+]
I'll never understand the people who insist Abyssea is the best thing that ever happened to the game, financially. I enjoyed Abyssea too, but "I like Abyssea" isn't the equivalent of "It was a huge success". Either show some actual sources to back up this claim or I'll assume it comes from the same place all of your other "facts" come from.
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
FFXI wasn't competing with nearly as many MMOs when it launched, that's the primary reason it succeeded to the extent it did. FFXI at launch was garbage, and most people will agree with that. FFXIV cannot pull the same ***and last 3 years: people have too many options.
I agree, but FF14 is aimed squarely at people who love FF games (hence gazilion fan service and easter eggs from ALL FF past games), casual players who are so used to WoW + Rift + Guild Wars 2 (the amount of game mechanics they are poaching is staggering), people who play FFXI but no longer have the time and dedication, and former FF14 players who wants to continue to support the game. Those numbers combined should ensure ARR will be a moderate success at launch. Reviews of beta are overwhelmingly positive that I worry it may crash and burn on its own hype - I am guilty of that myself. We shall see how they will handle post launch and adding content to ensure those people stay on and continue subscribing. From the look of it, it should be just fine, 2 years worth of contents seems already planned ahead lol. Magitek battle of FF6 and Chocobo battle of FF12 - sign me up!!
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Yes, the game looks fantastic, beta has been buzzing and as an old guard XI player seeing returning monsters and an updated FF world is amazing but make no mistake I'm worried on numerous levels about ARR and the type of MMO it wants to be. In a market where MMOs have been crashing and burning my judgement is reserved until I see for sure if SE can hope to compete this go around.
I've definitely seen this as well since ARR Alpha. They moved the game into the much more standard WoW/GW2 MMO.. And I think ARR is never going to be huge because it is still for the most part the same old thing. I'm pretty sure that will be a recurring feeling in a lot of reviews of the game.
But in terms of how the game is compared to 1.0 and 11.. I think its going to be pretty popular. 11 uses a old school harsh play style that most people don't mesh with these days. I'm not for or against it. I have a feeling the learning curve for 14 will be easier and, in some sort of sadistic twist, I liked how 11 tortured me for months.
The FF MMO community, the people who are still around, the people who left 11 long ago, and the people raged out against 14 1.0 as a whole is excited though I think. FF14 1.0 didn't meet a lot of peoples expectations. FF13 didn't meet a lot of peoples expectations (though apparently there are people out there who loved it.. Maybe they are the Madden players who don't come to video game forums.. shrug). FF15 looks like it could be more of the same. A Realm Reborn has a great art style and is pulling a lot of stuff from other games as fan service which is something that the series has always done (except when you have Transformers summons and robot behemoths and crap.. sigh)
Just keep an eye on it. This could be what was meant to happen all those years ago with 14s original release. I know I sure as hell didn't have as much fun and love the world of the original 14 Beta as I did with A Realm Reborn. Not to mention my friend got Beta access and is loving it.. Remember what I said about having people to play with? yeaaaa..
[+]
Artemicion said: »
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Phoenix.Authority said:
I'm genuinely curious what you guys think it will do to FFXI if FFXIV fails, which a lot of people are currently assuming it will.
If XIV fails XI is better off.
EDIT:
What I was thinking that will not happen due to how the cost of it works out and how efficient it is (better to make a new game than to redo an existing) is just reworking this game. Sadly that will not happen, but it be *** awesome if it did.
Oh I would cream my pants if XI had the same graphical makeup as XIV.
They should already make the graphics for 11 as good as 14. What's stopping us now that the PS2 don't have anything to do with Seekers. And basically, everyone now plays on Xbox and PC for the majority. SE needs to step up their graphics for those that actually play on those two consoles.
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
I'll never understand the people who insist Abyssea is the best thing that ever happened to the game, financially. I enjoyed Abyssea too, but "I like Abyssea" isn't the equivalent of "It was a huge success". Either show some actual sources to back up this claim or I'll assume it comes from the same place all of your other "facts" come from.
You do realize that up until SoA release, Abyssea is the content that refuse to die, no matter how you want to kill it with Voidwatch, Legion, NNI, Meeble, Salvage + Limbus + Einherjar 2. Just like cockroach, it just will not die ever. People keep getting exp there, seal farming, making their empyrean weapon, finishing AF3+2, magian trial weapons, fell cleave party to fund your relic, farming items to skill up your crafting, blue mage spell farms, etc.. It just will not die. Then SoA came with its shiny and pretty much render almost everything else inferior.. A good content is one that give the player choices (wether that said player decide to abuse it, it's another story). Before SoA, we have so many options - you can keep going forever - especially if you are the middle class of FFXI. Obviously the hardcore consumed everything at such a faster pace, nothing will satisfy them. But most FFXI players sit comfortably on the semi casual + hardcore who socialize while getting things done a little at a time. As long as they disregard SoA, then nothing really changes and game works fine as it is.
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
I thought people would know better than to sing praises of XIV before the final product is launched and the community (made up of people who aren't all old guard FFXI players) makes a final decision on if ARR is worth the subscription fees. Shall we go through the same embarrassment of having to defend 1.0 again?
Yes, the game looks fantastic, beta has been buzzing and as an old guard XI player seeing returning monsters and an updated FF world is amazing but make no mistake I'm worried on numerous levels about ARR and the type of MMO it wants to be. In a market where MMOs have been crashing and burning my judgement is reserved until I see for sure if SE can hope to compete this go around.
Just remember how SE treated FFXI when it was the new kid on the block and you'll start to see where the worries come from. Yoshi is only but one man in the machine known as SE.
Yes, the game looks fantastic, beta has been buzzing and as an old guard XI player seeing returning monsters and an updated FF world is amazing but make no mistake I'm worried on numerous levels about ARR and the type of MMO it wants to be. In a market where MMOs have been crashing and burning my judgement is reserved until I see for sure if SE can hope to compete this go around.
Just remember how SE treated FFXI when it was the new kid on the block and you'll start to see where the worries come from. Yoshi is only but one man in the machine known as SE.
There really wasn't a lot of buzz going into XIV after the beta. A lot of people felt the game was not ready after the beta (it was suppose to be 7 months but only lasted 3). Anyone who actually played the beta knew XIV wasnt going to work.
Luvbunny1 said: »
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
I'll never understand the people who insist Abyssea is the best thing that ever happened to the game, financially. I enjoyed Abyssea too, but "I like Abyssea" isn't the equivalent of "It was a huge success". Either show some actual sources to back up this claim or I'll assume it comes from the same place all of your other "facts" come from.
You do realize that up until SoA release, Abyssea is the content that refuse to die, no matter how you want to kill it with Voidwatch, Legion, NNI, Meeble, Salvage + Limbus + Einherjar 2. Just like cockroach, it just will not die ever. People keep getting exp there, seal farming, making their empyrean weapon, finishing AF3+2, magian trial weapons, fell cleave party to fund your relic, farming items to skill up your crafting, blue mage spell farms, etc.. It just will not die. Then SoA came with its shiny and pretty much render almost everything else inferior.. A good content is one that give the player choices (wether that said player decide to abuse it, it's another story). Before SoA, we have so many options - you can keep going forever - especially if you are the middle class of FFXI. Obviously the hardcore consumed everything at such a faster pace, nothing will satisfy them. But most FFXI sit comfortably on the semi casual + hardcore who socialize while getting things done a little at a time. As long as they disregard SoA, then nothing really changes and game works fine as it is.
In other words, "I like Abyssea". Are you going to actually show something of substance that backs up your claim that Abyssea v.2 is the holy grail that would save XI, or are you going to keep using "my strong feelings" as an argument? The fact that the people you saw that stuck around did Abyssea a whole lot doesn't prove anything about whether or not it was a success. Do I really need to explain this to you?
GE- Being a long time FFXI player, I have concerns about the hardware limitations the PS3 hardware will have on the PC client. I know with PS2 and FFXI there were memory limitations and things like that- and because one console is burdened by these limitations, the other clients had to adhere to those.
Have there been any steps taken so that the PS3 hardware won’t hold back other clients?
Yoshida- To be honest, the biggest problem we had with XI was yes the memory, but also the hard disc space. But with the PS3, you can add as much as you like, so to be honest I’m not really concerned about that.
Also there was a fundamental difference between XI and XIV was made. With XI it was based on the PS2 and then that was brought over to windows. On the other hand with XIV we’re making the windows version first and then bringing it to PS3 without reducing the quality too much. We’re making sure the balance is good for PS3 players, but the foundation is on the windows version.
Have there been any steps taken so that the PS3 hardware won’t hold back other clients?
Yoshida- To be honest, the biggest problem we had with XI was yes the memory, but also the hard disc space. But with the PS3, you can add as much as you like, so to be honest I’m not really concerned about that.
Also there was a fundamental difference between XI and XIV was made. With XI it was based on the PS2 and then that was brought over to windows. On the other hand with XIV we’re making the windows version first and then bringing it to PS3 without reducing the quality too much. We’re making sure the balance is good for PS3 players, but the foundation is on the windows version.
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
In other words, "I like Abyssea". Are you going to actually show something of substance that backs up your claim that Abyssea v.2 is the holy grail that would save XI, or are you going to keep using "my strong feelings" as an argument? The fact that the people you saw that stuck around did Abyssea a whole lot doesn't prove anything about whether or not it was a success. Do I really need to explain this to you?
I get it you do not like Abyssea - there is nothing wrong with that - to each is their own. Perhaps you were horrified by how fast everyone level up, or how it breeds incompetent newbie players, etc... Love how people just blame Abyssea for player's incompetency. The same stigma happened with ToAU - people blame the colibri express party and meripo for creating incompetent players and the diva RDM + BRD + COR prancing around refusing to party if you don't have WAR + NINJA group - ToAU Meripo 20k per hour or I will disband lol.
I think SoA has good intentions but badly implemented - therefore I am willing to wait it out until substantial updates will be made. 2 years from now, everyone will be complaining how bad SoA content giving everyone GOD mode weapons and how people no longer need R/M/E to have good weapons etc... My main issue is the lack of solo-low man friendly contents in SoA, something that Matsui as acknowledged on his recent postings and will be focusing on within the next few updates.
Was spicyryan actually quote on this page?
He didn't say he dislikes abyssea, he said you are obsessed with it, which is clearly spot-on. Just because you personally didn't consider other content lowmannable didn't mean it wasn't.. a lot of people don't consider abyssea the best part of FFXI.
Luvbunny1 said: »
I get it you do not like Abyssea - there is nothing wrong with that
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
I enjoyed Abyssea too
Nice try at a redirect but all you're doing is proving you're a loudmouth that doesn't bother reading the posts of people that are challenging things that you say.
To clarify, there's a difference between
"I like Abyssea, if they made another expansion like it I would definitely resubscribe"
and
"They need to make another Abyssea otherwise FFXI is doomed"
Guess which one requires you to cite some kind of source?
I have a beta key that im not using. But i would like to trade it for a pair of gaiters
Luvbunny1 said: »
GE- Being a long time FFXI player, I have concerns about the hardware limitations the PS3 hardware will have on the PC client. I know with PS2 and FFXI there were memory limitations and things like that- and because one console is burdened by these limitations, the other clients had to adhere to those.
Have there been any steps taken so that the PS3 hardware won’t hold back other clients?
Yoshida- To be honest, the biggest problem we had with XI was yes the memory, but also the hard disc space. But with the PS3, you can add as much as you like, so to be honest I’m not really concerned about that.
Also there was a fundamental difference between XI and XIV was made. With XI it was based on the PS2 and then that was brought over to windows. On the other hand with XIV we’re making the windows version first and then bringing it to PS3 without reducing the quality too much. We’re making sure the balance is good for PS3 players, but the foundation is on the windows version.
Have there been any steps taken so that the PS3 hardware won’t hold back other clients?
Yoshida- To be honest, the biggest problem we had with XI was yes the memory, but also the hard disc space. But with the PS3, you can add as much as you like, so to be honest I’m not really concerned about that.
Also there was a fundamental difference between XI and XIV was made. With XI it was based on the PS2 and then that was brought over to windows. On the other hand with XIV we’re making the windows version first and then bringing it to PS3 without reducing the quality too much. We’re making sure the balance is good for PS3 players, but the foundation is on the windows version.
If I recall, they reduced the amount of overall customisation you could do to your character because the ps3 has a lower memory (512mb) than what your average pc has.
It however wont affect anything else content wise since lower memory just reduces the amount that can be loaded at once on to the screen.
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
To clarify:
"I like Abyssea, if they made another expansion like it I would definitely resubscribe"
Guess which one requires you to cite some kind of source?
Yes that is the one exactly. And I am sure 3-5 updates in SoA will bring many changes that will give people options and not always have to depend on 18 people set up. Until Delve 2.0 comes and everything else become inferior :) Enjoy your FFXI stay, you and 600 mules + afk's bazaar lol.
I am glad FF14 is going in the WoW direction with a dash of Rift and Guild Wars 2. Focusing on the bigger market and more casual friendly is the right direction. It may be a turn off for hardcore FFXI players - but for everyone else, the middle and lower class of FFXI, it will be a breath of fresh air that they really needed. Admit it FFXI is getting rather stale at this point.
Luvbunny1 said: »
Enjoy your FFXI stay, you and 600 mules + afk's bazaar lol.
Actually, I have two characters and I generally dislike 18-man content and prefer 6-man content. Thanks for confirming that you're basically just buttfrustrated that XI isn't catering to precisely what you want and you decide to confuse that with what the playerbase at large wants, though.
[+]
Kimble2013 said: »
There really wasn't a lot of buzz going into XIV after the beta. A lot of people felt the game was not ready after the beta (it was suppose to be 7 months but only lasted 3). Anyone who actually played the beta knew XIV wasnt going to work.
Among XI stalwarts? Right up to the launch of 1.0 the amount of "SEE YA LOL, FFXIV IS GOING TO KILL XI" was at a height in addition to the threads about XI going down the toilet.
When XIV then properly exploded those people turned off the starstruck lenses and realized the game was deeply flawed. While 2.0 is farrrr better than its original 10 car pileup the game isn't treading new ground in the MMO field and merely has the Final Fantasy brand to keep it afloat.
Great for people like me born and bred on Square-Enix but what of the larger populace? Can XIV maintain a subscription format in the era of F2P merely copying what WoW and GW had mainstreamed years earlier?
[+]
Luvbunny1 said: »
Yeah that's the problem in this game, most people will not bend over backwards spending hours and hours of their free time to help newbies setting up comfortably. If you stop playing around ToAU or WoTG - when you come back in the game, it will seems very harsh and punishing, even if Abyssea is already deemed way too easy mode by the hardcore. For those returning players, Abyssea is not easy mode at all. Without the proper atmas and help from others, clearing the zone bosses x 9 is not easy, doing the 6 catures are no walk in the park. Even seal farming is borderline tedious, even if they force themselves to solo as ninja, thief, or beast master.
Luvbunny1 said: »
And then there is SoA to deal with... Matsui seems to be so out of touch with how the game has changed since the 2006-2007 years. I think his reasoning is good but his implementation is greatly flawed. He should have focused on solo and small group content above the 18 people set up with R/M/E minimum. If he would want to go the WoW route, new gears should be handed free simply via questings to get the newbies good set of gears so they can at least survive Reive easily. Wildskeeper Reive entry should have been a tag that is refreshed every 12 hours for a group of 3-6 to farm gears. And Delve should not even be introduced until Sept. He has chosen poorly by imitating WoTG - should have pick Abyssea. He wanted to emulate WoW but FF gears progression was never designed with that frame set to begin with. Rendering 10 years worth of content suddenly useless is a bad move.
Bismarck.Vraelia said: »
They should already make the graphics for 11 as good as 14. What's stopping us now that the PS2 don't have anything to do with Seekers. And basically, everyone now plays on Xbox and PC for the majority. SE needs to step up their graphics for those that actually play on those two consoles.
[+]
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
While 2.0 is farrrr better than its original 10 car pileup the game isn't treading new ground in the MMO field and merely has the Final Fantasy brand to keep it afloat. Great for people like me born and bred on Square-Enix but what of the larger populace? Can XIV maintain a subscription format in the era of F2P merely copying what WoW and GW had mainstreamed years earlier?
Well the fact that it is a clone of WoW + Rift + Guild Wars with FFXI coat and its own twist will make it more easier for mainstream audience who never heard of FF brand to pick up and play. Those same group who play PS3 console only will feel right at home with the much faster pacing and Skyrim type of "listing every quest and point you where to go" plus it is super casual friendly, you can play solo but feel like you are part of a bigger world + group with the FATE mechanism.
It may not bode well for hardcore FFXI who are so used to being punished and abused to feel a sense of accomplishment. The supporter of the FF14 V.1 will eat it up since they get to keep their current levels and can go tackle the harder contents. The general population of FFXI who no longer have the time to dedicate to this game ruthless demand will probably switch over. And those who are curious may stick it out for a month or three.
I don't know about longevity - we shall see if FF14 can capture the magic and keep the players subscribe for the long haul. They may, the 2 months big patches + update seems substantial enough and you know Yoshi got the carte blanche to do what he needs to ensure success. A privilege that I wish was also given to Matsui lol.
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