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Lack of responsibility
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 14:57:35
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Cerberus.Zandra said: You can't be implying that a jury shouldn't be afforded the responsibility of deciding what is beyond a reasonable doubt right (however stupid or prejudice they may be)? Of course not. I think we're in general agreement. I think having juries decide guilt/innocence is still the best system. But what if we did some sort of compromise? What if the punishment were at least somewhat tied to the quality of evidence?
That is, you kill someone and get convicted. But in one case, it's circumstantial or based on eye-witness testimony. There's nothing physical linking you to the crime. In the other, your DNA is all over the scene. And there's a video of you capping the guy.
It strikes me that we should encourage some sort of rational scale there, between the death penalty and life in prison. The way it is right now, it's mostly up to the luck of the draw, and whether or not you get a jury that happens to be in a hangin' mood. That just would reward careful criminals even more than it already does.
Hey bro if didja know if you clean up the crime scene you can get out of the death penalty!?! Crap I'm bringing the 409
Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-09-14 14:58:54
Ramuh.Dasva said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Phoenix.Airbag said: Homicide's illegal and death is the penalty What justifies the homicide, when he dies? Killing and murder are different things. This is why our troops aren't considered monsters but instead heroes. Indeed. That would be like saying making a thf pay pack what he stole was in itself stealing from him lol
You say that but I swear I can see the crowds outside the prisons protesting such an event in my head. XD
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 14:59:39
Caitsith.Zefiris said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Yeah but it is kinda nice to have it work out in the end. Unlike rl. And of course sex is awesome. On a side note did you see machete!?! Omg so much titties /downloads Anyway, I think it gives people a fictional view of relationships and can be bad when people have trouble separating fiction from reality. >.< LMAO. And yeah but people will always have that problem. I'd like to be able to pretend at least for awhile before I have to go back to harsh reality True, fiction rocks. ;) That's why if I had any power it would be to be able to enter TVs and change channels and ***like in Stay Tuned but without the devil being there and all the shows being changed to evil versions of themselves
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 15:02:16
Cerberus.Zandra said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Cerberus.Zandra said: Phoenix.Airbag said: Homicide's illegal and death is the penalty What justifies the homicide, when he dies? Killing and murder are different things. This is why our troops aren't considered monsters but instead heroes. Indeed. That would be like saying making a thf pay pack what he stole was in itself stealing from him lol You say that but I swear I can see the crowds outside the prisons protesting such an event in my head. XD I've seen worse. I knew of a thf that broke into a house the owner went to confront him thf panics kills the homeowner. Thf goes to jail thfs family sues dead guys family cause if dead guy hadn't scared thf he wouldn't have shot him and they would still have a father/husband...
 Lakshmi.JaerikAdministrator
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-14 15:02:41
I do find it odd that the US and Japan are the only developed, industrialized nations that still execute people. (Japan only does it because of US influence.)
I usually don't agree with the politics of said countries, but most of them did it not out of ideology, but because they were unable to prove it was either cheaper or an effective deterrent. There was no evidence it convinced a potentialy murderer not to, well, murder.
Even if you don't like their usual political ideology, you have to stop and think when presented with that fact. Are we just being stubborn because we're unable to admit we might be wrong on the numbers?
Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-09-14 15:04:29
Ramuh.Dasva said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Cerberus.Zandra said: You can't be implying that a jury shouldn't be afforded the responsibility of deciding what is beyond a reasonable doubt right (however stupid or prejudice they may be)? Of course not. I think we're in general agreement. I think having juries decide guilt/innocence is still the best system. But what if we did some sort of compromise? What if the punishment were at least somewhat tied to the quality of evidence?
That is, you kill someone and get convicted. But in one case, it's circumstantial or based on eye-witness testimony. There's nothing physical linking you to the crime. In the other, your DNA is all over the scene. And there's a video of you capping the guy.
It strikes me that we should encourage some sort of rational scale there, between the death penalty and life in prison. The way it is right now, it's mostly up to the luck of the draw, and whether or not you get a jury that happens to be in a hangin' mood. That just would reward careful criminals even more than it already does.
Hey bro if didja know if you clean up the crime scene you can get out of the death penalty!?! Crap I'm bringing the 409
I agree.
Isn't a conviction a conviction? Who gets to rule on how good the evidence is, and isn't that what the jury is suppose to be doing already??
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By Diabolos.Chupacabra 2010-09-14 15:05:04
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: There was no evidence it convinced a potentialy murderer not to, well, murder.
I shall treasure this spelling error for all time. :D
or until he mods the crap outta it and fixes my post to make me sound "special". I still like you Jaerik! :D
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 15:07:22
Just means the punishment wasn't brutal enough and/or public enough!
Caitsith.Zefiris
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By Caitsith.Zefiris 2010-09-14 15:09:27
America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 15:10:15
Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. We have so little compared to other older countries we gotta keep what little we got!
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:10:56
Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. That's because the US Gov't is governed by a good deal of old money(that's in relative to how old the states are of course though.)
Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2010-09-14 15:10:59
Flionheart said:
Shame she's getting executed though, I'm against the death penalty myself.
This. Killing her would be like.... freeing her.
She should be tortured or something
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By Diabolos.Chupacabra 2010-09-14 15:14:03
Man kills man. In order to prove that killing man is wrong... man kills man.
Anyone else see an issue there? I'm not in favor of letting everyone run free doing as they please, but at the same time, I'm not sure I have enough faith in the judicial system to advocate killing an alleged murderer. We learn all the time about cases that were closed 30 years ago and they had the wrong person... Juries of our peers... walk into walmart, pick 10 random people. These are your saving graces. Would you trust these people to make an informed decision with your life in the balance? It's not so much about evidence anymore as it is which lawyer can put on the most convincing show. Not too comforting is it?
Yet, until I see a better method of deterring severe crime, or some supporting data for leaning one way or the other... I'm kinda in a rough spot on whether to condone corporal capital punishment or condemn it.
Caitsith.Zefiris
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By Caitsith.Zefiris 2010-09-14 15:14:32
Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. We have so little compared to other older countries we gotta keep what little we got! Well, it's not necessarily a bad thing. We have a lot of diverse people living here so we get to experience lots of traditions. :D
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. That's because the US Gov't is governed by a good deal of old money(that's in relative to how old the states are of course though.) I thought it was governed with borrowed money. @.@
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:16:17
Caitsith.Zefiris said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. We have so little compared to other older countries we gotta keep what little we got! Well, it's not necessarily a bad thing. We have a lot of diverse people living here so we get to experience lots of traditions. :D
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. That's because the US Gov't is governed by a good deal of old money(that's in relative to how old the states are of course though.) I thought it was governed borrowed money. @.@ I italicized it because I was using it more as a phrase rather than being literal.
old money
Caitsith.Zefiris
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By Caitsith.Zefiris 2010-09-14 15:20:58
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. We have so little compared to other older countries we gotta keep what little we got! Well, it's not necessarily a bad thing. We have a lot of diverse people living here so we get to experience lots of traditions. :D
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. That's because the US Gov't is governed by a good deal of old money(that's in relative to how old the states are of course though.) I thought it was governed borrowed money. @.@ I italicized it because I was using it more as a phrase rather than being literal.
old moneyI was trying to be silly, excuse me. :3 What you said makes sense, though I'm not sure it explains why we still have the death penalty.
Cerberus.Zandra
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By Cerberus.Zandra 2010-09-14 15:21:07
Diabolos.Chupacabra said: Man kills man. In order to prove that killing man is wrong... man kills man.
Anyone else see an issue there? I'm not in favor of letting everyone run free doing as they please, but at the same time, I'm not sure I have enough faith in the judicial system to advocate killing an alleged murderer. We learn all the time about cases that were closed 30 years ago and they had the wrong person... Juries of our peers... walk into walmart, pick 10 random people. These are your saving graces. Would you trust these people to make an informed decision with your life in the balance? It's not so much about evidence anymore as it is which lawyer can put on the most convincing show. Not too comforting is it?
Yet, until I see a better method of deterring severe crime, or some supporting data for leaning one way or the other... I'm kinda in a rough spot on whether to condone corporal capital punishment or condemn it.
Killing and murder are different things. This is why our troops aren't considered monsters but instead heroes.
You're better off with 10 people from Wal-Mart than you are with either an elected or appointed group of people.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 15:21:51
Phoenix.Fredjan said: Flionheart said: Shame she's getting executed though, I'm against the death penalty myself. This. Killing her would be like.... freeing her. She should be tortured or something Unfortunately we don't officially condone that except in guantanamo bay
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:27:50
Caitsith.Zefiris said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. We have so little compared to other older countries we gotta keep what little we got! Well, it's not necessarily a bad thing. We have a lot of diverse people living here so we get to experience lots of traditions. :D
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. That's because the US Gov't is governed by a good deal of old money(that's in relative to how old the states are of course though.) I thought it was governed borrowed money. @.@ I italicized it because I was using it more as a phrase rather than being literal.
old moneyI was trying to be silly, excuse me. :3 What you said makes sense, though I'm not sure it explains why we still have the death penalty. old money kind of represents the "if it's not broke don't fix it" idea. they won't admit that it's just broke lol.
Caitsith.Zefiris
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By Caitsith.Zefiris 2010-09-14 15:30:54
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. We have so little compared to other older countries we gotta keep what little we got! Well, it's not necessarily a bad thing. We have a lot of diverse people living here so we get to experience lots of traditions. :D
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Caitsith.Zefiris said: America seems to be pretty big on upholding tradition. The fact that capital punishment remains is probably, in part, a result of that. That's because the US Gov't is governed by a good deal of old money(that's in relative to how old the states are of course though.) I thought it was governed borrowed money. @.@ I italicized it because I was using it more as a phrase rather than being literal.
old moneyI was trying to be silly, excuse me. :3 What you said makes sense, though I'm not sure it explains why we still have the death penalty. old money kind of represents the "if it's not broke don't fix it" idea. they won't admit that it's just broke lol. Lol yeah, it's also so difficult to revoke an established institution, while it seems so easy to implement a new one. Probably a big reason why our deficit is so high. :\
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By Diabolos.Chupacabra 2010-09-14 15:31:11
Cerberus.Zandra said: Killing and murder are different things. This is why our troops aren't considered monsters but instead heroes.
You're better off with 10 people from Wal-Mart than you are with either an elected or appointed group of people.
Not sure where you draw the line between murder and killing? That's an ambiguous topic in and of itself. Military people are simply doing their job. Not sure we should make them heroes for doing their job. Although I do recognize the work they do and respect them for putting their lives on the line. I'm also not going to throw them a party for killing such and such number of people in combat.
That's a can of worms that should probably remain closed though. And I don't want people wrongly thinking I'm a pro-peace/anti-military hippie.
And the Wal-mart thing... I don't buy it lol. I wouldn't trust a random Wal-mart shopper with picking out a specific item I told them the name of, let alone my defense. I'd much rather place my faith into a panel of well educated doctors or something. I'd even put my faith in a team of non-paid lawyers as my jury before random Wal-martians.
Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-14 15:34:13
The line is pretty thin, but it definitely does exist. Implying there's no difference between a soldier and a murderer is idealistic crazy-talk to me.
That being said, it's amazing how easily that line can be crossed.
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2010-09-14 15:38:15
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: The line is pretty thin, but it definitely does exist. Implying there's no difference between a soldier and a murderer is idealistic crazy-talk to me.
That being said, it's amazing how easily that line can be crossed.
However clichy it may sound, atrocities like these are bound to happen in every war.
You just need to monitor the army, and severly punish any kind of disgusting behaviour like this, in a legal manner.
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2010-09-14 15:40:29
Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment.
Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to.
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:43:47
Apocalypse Now comes to mind for some reason.
Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-14 15:48:16
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first...
By Flionheart 2010-09-14 15:49:41
If only our British soldiers weren't sent in because we feel we need to prove to America we are the bestest friends in the whole wide world.
I mean why do we even bother :/ It's not like they need us there.
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-14 15:49:54
Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Shoot first ask questions later?!?
Phoenix.Darki
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By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-14 15:50:54
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Pandemonium.Spicyryan said: Lakshmi.Jaerik said: Oh, agreed. I'm just ruminating on the nature of the beast. We're okay with saying murder is wrong, unless you kill someone else. Unless you're a soldier, then it's different. But even if you're a soldier, this one kind of killing is okay, but this other is not. And if you do that other kind, then we'll kill you as punishment. Our sense of morality is a lot more complex and nuanced than most people give credit to. If only the soldiers were saved for wars that actually defended us. Yeah look what happened last time we waited will we were actually attacked first... Shoot first ask questions later?!?
wolverine reference? :P
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/13/AR2010091306282.html?sid=ST2010091306394
Tl;DR: This woman plead guilty to charges against her where
she paid a man to kill her husband, stepson, and let one of the murders have sex with her 16 year old daughter. She is to be executed on the 23rd, the first woman to be executed in VA in 100 years.
She is now begging for her life saying she acted out of character and that she thought she was innocent since it wasn't her pulling the trigger.
Can anyone take this person seriously? It says she's border line mentally retarded but even my mentally retarded cousin knows right from wrong. It's really annoying to see horrible people like this try to justify their actions instead of taking responsibility for what they've done.
Before any of you decide to use Mentally retarded as a defense know that being mentally retarded does not exclude you from Mens Rea. She KNEW exactly what was happening, and she knew it was wrong.
Thoughts?
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