Bar-spells While Crafting

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2010-09-08
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Bar-spells while crafting
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 Bahamut.Evilswine
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By Bahamut.Evilswine 2009-01-06 15:32:47
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Anyone ever thought about using a certain bar-spell while using a certain crystal?

I was wondering if i could just use baraero while crafting with windcrystals. or is it better to use the ascending bar? which would be in this case barblizzard. or just use the weaker bar, like barstone. it only takes a few seconds to use the spell, and if some people do believe it helps or they even tested it so why not do so?

If you believe there could be something about this theory, which bar-spell would you use?
 Fairy.Blackmist
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By Fairy.Blackmist 2009-01-06 15:38:02
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my friend Mita is allways casting Bar-element with that assoicated crystal, it seems to help her crafts, but i don't know
 Gilgamesh.Xarchangel
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By Gilgamesh.Xarchangel 2009-01-06 15:45:53
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If you believe that it works go ahead and try it ^^, myself i have tried everything possible it seems.... such as:

Using bar-spells
going to avatar locations
elemental staffs
facing directions
moon phases
days of the week

Nothing really seems to make a difference, i use to believe that direction did, but as of late i have decided that it does not matter. The only thing that seems to make a difference is the day of week for skill ups. I do not have recorded proof or anything, so do not take my word on it... Just my opinion
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By Remora.Disintegration 2009-01-06 15:56:55
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oh, and weather. i want to try desynthing in qufim during an oft-thunderstorm.
 Seraph.Zoey
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By Seraph.Zoey 2009-01-06 16:32:29
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Xarchangel said:
If you believe that it works go ahead and try it ^^, myself i have tried everything possible it seems.... such as: Using bar-spells going to avatar locations elemental staffs facing directions moon phases days of the week Nothing really seems to make a difference, i use to believe that direction did, but as of late i have decided that it does not matter. The only thing that seems to make a difference is the day of week for skill ups. I do not have recorded proof or anything, so do not take my word on it... Just my opinion


I second this guy accept that I think that the day may wiegh in some. Even if the day itself mattered when luck or bad luck weighs in you may not notice any difference at all, or be tricked by good luck. I have done alot of synthing, even tried getting myself cursed and then synthing some cursed gear, went 1/6 but that doesnt mean anything. I spent alot of time expiramenting with this stuff becuase crafting to lvl up, and for profit on consumables is mind numbingly boring so why not if the topic is in the air (in my head).

I highly doubt that direction, status affects, weather, or location matter at all.

I cannot say that about the day affecting your lvl because I still use it and moon phase from time to time for kicks but take this into consideration;

In my last 3 trials trying to make Mamushito+1, I first went ahead with it on a "safe day" (for kicks) in about 14 or 15 tries I went 0/15.
Then I went ahead and did about another 15 tries on "HQ" (relative to crystal) and faired the same.
The 3rd and last time I tried this synth not for skillups it was an odd day (wind day to the water crystal) and faired 2/13.

So if you follow that statistic, which is small given the numbers, the day didn't have any affect for the HQ rate as much as pure old fashioned luck if at all.

I do however think that the element of the day may add accuracy to the same crystal perhaps by 1 soft lvl. This is becuase of the major difference in successfull synths I have noticed when I compared those in several trials while skilling up. Pretty much, whenever I was skilling up 6 lvls off and the day without synthesis support and crystal didnt match the day the success on synths were terrible and skillups scarce. When the days matched up the success was way better and the skillups plentiful enouph to carry me to the next lvl (ussaully) by the time the day changed providing I had enouph materials, or else run for support.

I have noticed somthing similiar in a couple trials making bullets based on the subcraft lvl and noticed that the day had seemingly carried me to the next HQ tier from 30 to 31 lvls above cap, then waned back down after the day changed. Since then I have gotten my gold one more lvl up and dont see the huge amount of NQ synthing as I did before my last lvl in gs, which only HQ well on the supposed "Safe" day and also on Light day aswell. Now that same synth HQs any day. This could easily still be a fluke thing because of bad luck. so...
 Leviathan.Natsuchii
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By Leviathan.Natsuchii 2009-01-17 12:42:46
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I equip the elemental staff of the crystal I'm synthing with and face NQ/HQ directions. If it really works, who knows but I still believe. ^^
 Sylph.Buckets
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By Sylph.Buckets 2009-01-17 13:00:37
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http://bluegartrls.com/forum/ffxi-crafting-central/57123-before-you-ask-stupid-crafting-question-read.html
 Bahamut.Evilswine
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By Bahamut.Evilswine 2009-01-17 13:30:30
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Buckets said:
http://bluegartrls.com/forum/ffxi-crafting-central/57123-before-you-ask-stupid-crafting-question-read.html


So where is the answer to my question? cant find it? too bad, guess you better delete your post or whatever cause its a useless link for most ppl already know that standard ***.

1st post and already a useless one, grats
 
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By 2009-01-17 15:04:22
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Evilswine said:
Anyone ever thought about using a certain bar-spell while using a certain crystal?

I was wondering if i could just use baraero while crafting with windcrystals. or is it better to use the ascending bar? which would be in this case barblizzard. or just use the weaker bar, like barstone. it only takes a few seconds to use the spell, and if some people do believe it helps or they even tested it so why not do so?

If you believe there could be something about this theory, which bar-spell would you use?


When I synth, I use Elemental Staves and Barspells to protect against my Crystal's weakness. Such as Fire Staff & Barblizzard/-ra.

I also have messed around with using the staff that matches the Crystal... Such as Wind Crystal with Wind/Auster's Staff. And therefore using Barstone/-ra.

Having done both (and I also face certain directions) I find that matching up Crystal and Staff/Spell help. I get which spell by looking at what Elemental Resistance the staff gives.
 Valefor.Forgjr
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By Valefor.Forgjr 2009-01-20 20:55:12
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Barspells do nothing for synth success rate. Recorded sample size over 6k synths. Nothing there.
(its been removed from the submission form even)

Haven't done any stave testing. It would be absurd of SE if that could effect synth results.

Data so far suggests but does not prove (need much larger sample size to rule out chance) day and weather when you are under cap for the synth. If anything, its elemental potency not resistance that's involved. IF.

Regardless, the single largest and only proven factor is your skill level (and any synth support) and the items skill level.
 Leviathan.Crosis
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By Leviathan.Crosis 2009-01-20 21:00:51
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Its a whole superstition thing. If you believe it may work go for it. If you think it does help do it. As for solid evidence against it sure there's plenty but all you gotta do is believe.
 
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By 2009-01-20 21:29:17
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I figure its better to be safe than risk more breaks/less skills.

As I find out about proven myths, yay! Less gear to lug around etc!

With staffs, I notice more so that I get more skill ups, over less breaks. Like 0.1's and 0.2's 8/10 synths with staff versus 0.1's every 5-10 synths without. I dunno if thats just some wierd luck thing, or if the staff actually has an effect. Particularly if I use staff that matches the crystal I'm using (Water Crystal + Water Staff, etc).

I guess since Elemental Staves effect Magic ACC/charm rate, etc, is why people even began to think staves effect crafting. With some of what SE even comes up with, I wouldn't really be surprised.
 Unicorn.Smurfo
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By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-20 22:35:24
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If you feel you need a placebo effect for yourself to compensate for either the fact that you want knowledge over this system "knowing how to HQ" or for the fact that you have absolutely no control over what happens when you put items into a crystal and click "Ok" then sure, go for it.

It's a pretty random system and thus, many want to think they understand it or give themselves an illusion that they have it mastered i suppose.
 Seraph.Zoey
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By Seraph.Zoey 2009-01-20 23:01:30
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If you read my post above it may read to some like im saying that there is a way to affect HQ. I'm not saying that at all. From testing and asking alot of questions all I can tell is that there is no way to affect HQ besides you skill vs the skill cap, and even if there was, by the amounts people believe, luck would weigh in more. so then how could you affect HQ?

I try to tell people that ask this in the game this.

Does anyone remember the thing with making remedies and how many would HQ them for profit from npcs before SE lowered the npc buying price?

I used to do that remedy HQing ALOT, I mean a really really LOT.

Those things would HQ like crazy on any day, also whole game days would pass with terrible HQ rates. Any day, water, which is presumable safe, would HQ wonderfully sometimes, and terrible the others, no matter what moon, and the same for lightning day or really any day at all. Luck was the only thing that mattered. Heck I would synth them next to folks sometimes with the same alchemy skill, and sometimes I got more, and sometimes the other person would.

It is all based on luck and how many lvls you are over the skill cap. I wish there was a way to affect HQs, esspecially on those higher profitable synths. I must say that I have never been able to get a cursed item to HQ on a full moon, but again, so what. It's not like I gave that more then 13 tries.

Wiki says that the same day may add a soft level and I agree with that due to the same junk I wrote in the earlier post I wrote about in this thread.
 Unicorn.Smurfo
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By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-22 01:09:40
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Yah i think that there may be something to the day-thing but i also believe it to be random as to if it's a + or -

Just in my experiences which are many, and i dont think it's exclusively element of that day vs element of crystal... For instance i get a ton of HQ's on "neutral" days aswell as HQ popping on the day that the crystal is stronger than

I find that waiting for any day to craft is pointless because "good" days have just as much chance typically to run me for bust or break evens as any other, therefore it does NOT effect MY overall HQ rate.

Overall is in reality the only thing that matters, if you 1/1 something "perfect day!" and the next run is 0/30, does it matter? And waited for this day, sure i may get a super badass run here and there but say i try that same day next time it's around i'll for sure run bust, most every time i've repeated days that turned out to be amazing this has been my experience.

For instance new moon windsday/lightsday/darksday whatever have you, with earth crystal in theory should be nice days to HQ but half the time it seems to not be, Therefore i have determined "for myself" that it's just best to craft whenever i feel like it, and this system makes me a ***-load of gil, so i cant complain at all.

Being an Atheist to crafting theories has turned out nicely for me is all i'll say, before i was buying crap -> waiting for whatever placebo -> getting screwed around anyway and inbetwen wasting time i could have been making gil, and in my downtimes my competition were just slaughtering me in sales, purchases of ingredients, everything.

Its best to just craft as much as possible and *** monopolize everything that you can easily control ingredients of.

Yah, so now i just pump out HQ whenever i got materials available on whatever random day i chooses, and i try to monopolize items, smart huh? I do avoid same crystal same day still as it's 99% of the time horrible :)

P.S i used to know a crafter who swore that crafting while invisible increased HQ.. he/she would cast invis before every synth.
 Garuda.Littledarc
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By Garuda.Littledarc 2009-01-22 06:47:05
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Smurfo said:


Its best to just craft as much as possible and *** monopolize everything that you can easily control ingredients of.



i agree here.

but then again i also carry around a wild rabbit tail, lucky egg, 4 leaf mandy bud, and a goblin die. {yes i know, SE said they have no effect on luck.)

i usually either craft when i have the ingredients, or i craft the same day as the crystal.
crafting anything will be faster than skilling up fishing ^^;
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By Asura.Knottsmustang 2009-03-07 10:58:58
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If Bar spells seem to work try out en-spells of the same elemnt this may also have an effect on the synthing I have not tried it but it is another thing to try with the bar-spells and staffs.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2009-03-07 11:09:13
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Quote:
Barspells do nothing for synth success rate.


orly? try having one cast on you mid synth :3
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 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-03-07 11:17:22
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ASH-SAMA~ <3
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-03-07 11:20:52
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Taken from Direction matters in synthing? thread:
Jaerik said:
I'll chime in as a 8+ year developer of MMO's, and why professional experience makes me extremely skeptical of crafting rumors.

In every MMO to date that I've worked on directly (3 of them), the players have managed to come up with guides, equations, and explanations for world behavior that is infinitely more complex than the actual algorithm. We've had enormous dev meetings and whole industry summits trying to explain this inevitable behavior. The root of this phenomenon lies in a few different areas.

The problem lies in the fact that MMO development is hard. There are no other kinds of games out there that have as many asynchronously interacting systems. Features are exponentially harder to implement in an MMO than in a single-player game. The teams are generally many times larger, and the implementation of proposed features is run through a much more strict filter about money investment to value-add tradeoffs. Otherwise, it's very easy to keep implementing features and additional complexity in the interests of game "depth," and then later realizing you've coded something so complex that you can't even get to release. I've seen dozens of MMO's get canceled after falling into this trap.

This is a fancy way of saying that there is no reason for FF to have any of these layers of complexity on its crafting system. In fact, it would have made horrific business sense for them to even consider it. The amount of players who gain value from the complexity is nowhere near the costs to implement in terms of design, coding, and QA manpower. Not to mention that once such an overly complex system is in place, the simple act of even adding a single item to the game (and testing all possible combinations of factors to make sure you're not introducing an exploit or economic problem) takes weeks of QA time, and SE has shown nothing to indicate that they're working under this amount of delay.

However, players in MMO's tend to become very possessive of their accomplishments and perceived knowledge about the game they play. Players are more inclined, by human nature, to believe that their actions and accomplishments in-game require substantially more knowledge, skill, and tenacity than they really do. Players don't like to believe in randomness, and they will, by nature attempt to minimize the perceived effect of randomness on their accomplishments as much as possible. Randomness, to some extent, trivializes their perceived influence on the game, reduces their perceived ownership/investment, and minimizes many of their perceived accomplishments. So they will instinctively look for patterns and explanations for events that do not rely on randomness.

Confirmation bias also plays a role. Humans beings of all sorts are more inclined to make mental note of, and remember, statistical trials that validated their hypothesis than those that went against it. For example, let's say someone sets up the right moon phase, direction, crystal type, and everything correctly. They get 8 HQ's in a row. Then they try again another day where the moon phase and direction are wrong. They get 8 HQ's in a row. Human nature tends to see the first scenario as "Ah hah, I knew it!" and the second one as "Wow, I musta just gotten really lucky." A week later while posting on a board, they will remember the first scenario and post about it, but the second scenario will slip their mind as unimportant, or a fluke of chance.

No MMO to date has implemented a crafting system nearly as complex as the players claim FF's is. By several orders of magnitude. And in my experience and professional opinion, such a system would never be approved by the game's Producers. There is no business reason to do so.

However, all MMO's to date have had player theories about game systems equally as complex as this one. In most cases, players actually do develop theories and equations that seem to pan out with example data. But always, always, these theories are exaggerating the number of variables and failing to realize that the same statistical results can be achieved with only 1-2 variables and a good random number generator instead.
 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2009-03-07 11:27:32
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tl;dr.

It's all superstition. Like the Rabbit Tail, Lucky Egg, 4 leaf Mandragora bud thing. When people get desperate, they make stuff like this up.

i.e. "Damnit! I can't get my O Kote to drop! -Eats lucky egg-" Player obtains Ochimusha Kote. "Oh my god, it does work.

People do the same thing with crafting. The only known methods of enhancing synth rates are moon phase, direction, day of the week, synthesis Imagery guild-specific furnishings, and of course, skill.
 Shiva.Phioness
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By Shiva.Phioness 2009-03-07 11:40:41
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Day and direction have an effect on leveling up, and on HQ if your looking to break certain levels of % based HQ i.e. 11, 31, 51. Staves, lucky charms, and Bar spells have been tested with no results proven. I and a couple of buddies have read up some testing on these in forums/postings on Allakhazam, Wiki, and other sites. Lots of this stuff is old news so the articles may be tough to find.

For Desynth thats a whole new ballgame. As a person who has Desynthed thousands of items (Gobbie gear, moblin gear, quadav backplates and thousands and thousands (no joke) of quadav helms, I can attestify for this:

1: Don't desynth with a dark based element weather in zone or dark based element days (water, earth, ice, dark) you tend to get more breaks.

2: Always have furniture that gives you Desynth support to decrease amount of breaks. Or furniture to improve elemental strength in MH of crystals you use to synth with the most.

3: Desynth on light based element days (fire, lightning, wind, light) improves chance of succesful desynth and lessens chance of breaks (especially days matching desynth crystals).

4: I face South for desynthing lightning crystals (elements weakness=earth) to get more HQ desynths. Follow the same for each desynth/or synth crystal if you want to HQ.

My best desynths where on Lightningsday, facing south, with lightning element in Beadeaux. Desynthed 3 darksteel ingots in a row from quadav helms (I jumped for joy (literally) at this, but I like crafting =^.^=)

I've tested this out on thousands of items and tips from many crafters and friends. I'll post results of data sometime in the future when i start playing again (work and college are priority now).

For crafting/desynthing I do believe direction and day elements are a key role. My most used tool is the Lokyst's Crafter timer (google it). Moon phase plays a role, but I'm not sure how much.

I'm currently Alch 94.7, wood 60, smith 57, gold 49, cook 43, bone 60, leather 58, cloth 53, fishing (sigh) 17. Besides killing NM's, I like farming and crafting, hopefully this was helpful to some.

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"Damn were is that f%^king ghost!!!"
 Valefor.Magicker
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By Valefor.Magicker 2009-03-14 11:47:56
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What says it would take implementing additional features to effect the crafting system?

Everything is base on elements, from the day, to directions (based on in-game physical proof i.e. stars), to items, to magic, etc...

A simple algorythm that took into account the total elemental strength of a player based on his/her direction, equipment, spells, location, surroundings etc, and augmented the limits on HQ's/skillups/breaks on a random number generator by an according ammount seems perfectly practical and effective.
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By Gorion 2011-11-26 21:32:28
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I think its Like Opening a Treasure chest. You never know what your gonna get. Go Forest Go.
 Fenrir.Divinian
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By Fenrir.Divinian 2011-11-26 21:39:03
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Pascal's Wager
 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2011-11-26 21:46:08
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Quote:
09/12/2002
THF – An error in which Sneak Attack would not work if facing Northwest was corrected.

Not crafting, but in 2002, there was a problem with facing NW. I'd say there must be something to direction if the programing can mess up for 1 specific direction.

Quote:
Ever since service began, there had been a glitch where Sneak Attack would not work if one was facing Northwest. It came to be considered an unlucky direction and parties would often request the tank stand South of the enemy to avoid the issue.

Probably were directional stuff began anyway.

Quotes taken from here.
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 Bahamut.Cuelebra
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By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-11-26 21:54:59
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Crafting Timer

i swear by this, as do a lot of crafters i know. Ive tried staff, weather and bar it didnt work. Direction, moon and day of the week does make a diff from personal experience
 Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2011-11-26 22:10:11
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Human brain always tries to find patterns where there aren't any.
 Bahamut.Cuelebra
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By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-11-26 22:16:08
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chaos theory u mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
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