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DNC: The new queen of FFXI!
 Sylph.Kozuki
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 223
By Sylph.Kozuki 2010-06-17 16:03:10
Sylph.Kimble said: Sylph.Kozuki said: I have seen WHM's solo mainheal hassoing DD's. I have seem RDM mainheal hassoing DD's solo. I have seen hasso not be viable because you're not exping on colibri, and fighting other mobs like mamools. I've had to mainheal with a terrible healer, I've been able to fulltime DD with a good one. He can say a RDM can't keep up with fulltime hasso DD's, but I've seen it, how does math reflect that? Why is his math saying he's using regen?
Sometimes you can't dia2 every mob, stuff happens, sometimes you /heal a bit, sometimes you don't do this, sometimes you don't do that. You do things, to allow you to keep MP up at all times. You don't just sit there and idle and rely on refresh/convert..
If his math is so right, why do I see the exact opposite happen in game?
There's no math, there's facts. Bad healer = can't fulltime hasso/I have to heal.
Good healer = I can fulltime saber dance, dd's can fulltime hasso.
This is also assuming ALL DD's are good, how often does that happen? How often does perfect settings, camp not being taken, both camps open, etc happen?
No matter how good a healer is, I highly doubt you can full time saber dance >_>
I edited it meanie!
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 16:03:54
Sylph.Kozuki said: I have seen WHM's solo mainheal hassoing DD's. I have seem RDM mainheal hassoing DD's solo. I have seen hasso not be viable because you're not exping on colibri, and fighting other mobs like mamools. I've had to mainheal with a terrible healer, I've been able to fulltime DD with a good one. He can say a RDM can't keep up with fulltime hasso DD's, but I've seen it, how does math reflect that? Why is his math saying he's using regen?
Sometimes you can't dia2 every mob, stuff happens, sometimes you /heal a bit, sometimes you don't do this, sometimes you don't do that. You do things, to allow you to keep MP up at all times. You don't just sit there and idle and rely on refresh/convert..
If his math is so right, why do I see the exact opposite happen in game?
There's no math, there's facts. Bad healer = can't fulltime hasso/I have to heal.
Good healer = I can fulltime saber dance, dd's can fulltime hasso.
This is also assuming ALL DD's are good, how often does that happen? How often does perfect settings, camp not being taken, both camps open, etc happen? You answered your own question. Somebody made sacrifices to keep things going, be it neglecting Dia, using Seigan, or something else. Adding a DNC whose first priority is healing and second priority is DPS allows for everyone else to go all-out, increasing total DPS even before adding the DNC's damage. The degree to which you have to focus on each aspect varies with the situation, but all you did here was support Thorny's point.
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 16:05:15
Valefor.Angeluzun said: Thornyy and Nightfyre are still jerks though *** off lol
=P
 Leviathan.Dubont
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 16:05:22
Thornny isn't just a jerk on forums though...he degrades people in game without even a hint of advice...so yea, he is still a jerk.
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 Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-06-17 16:06:23
Nightfyre, generally wondering, how do you get your merits?
Sylph.Kozuki
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 223
By Sylph.Kozuki 2010-06-17 16:06:24
And by the dnc mainhealnig you reduce the dnc's damage. Being a lazy mage and making the DNC mainheal is not working together to gain max exp/hour.
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Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-06-17 16:08:13
Sylph.Kimble said: Also, in the day and age of smn burns, saying how many 75s you have doesnt really say much (Not saying you smn burned most or even all of your 75s, just how it is) Not saying it is, nothing in FFXI is hard. It's just one of those things that's short to list and still worth mentioning. Nobody wants to hear every single ra/ex drop I have from endgame/otherwise or every item I've bought off the AH. I think my character is in the top 1% easily for it's age, and when I'm content with my jobs' gear and levels I'll be sure to grind out a relic in a month so people like that can't downtalk about it.
Dubont said: Thornny isn't just a jerk on forums though...he degrades people in game without even a hint of advice...so yea, he is still a jerk. I'm a jerk to people I don't like or don't consider worth associating with. I don't deny it and everyone knows it.
I hear CoP is hard, will you be less may-ad if I 4box mammets for you?
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Leviathan.Dubont
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 16:10:42
or thornny will just sell his account again...
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 16:11:59
Sylph.Kimble said: Nightfyre, generally wondering, how do you get your merits? Generally solo or MMM at present. I'm far harder on myself than other people... more comfortable getting merits on my own until my DRG is up to scratch or I level and get basic merits into DNC. Pickup parties generally just end up frustrating me so going LFP is out too, if I'm going to merit I'd like to know beforehand that I won't be tanking every single goddamn bird from 100 to 0.
Sylph.Kozuki said: And by the dnc mainhealnig you reduce the dnc's damage. Being a lazy mage and making the DNC mainheal is not working together to gain max exp/hour. DA (depreciating DA at that) doesn't have nearly the returns that Haste and Hasso do, nor the impact that Dia II provides given that it affects all DDs.
I'm not advocating lazy mages, I'm advocating a mage who's riding their available MP pool (plus Vert if appropriate) hard and asking the DNC to pick up the slack when necessary.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 382
By Asura.Tristean 2010-06-17 16:13:53
God DNC got shafted in this update.
/sarcasm off.
Why can't we just be happy that DNC got a much needed update and not "shafted" as so many other jobs did? Even though they didn't really get shafted; they're just upset that some jobs got more than others. What are we, in elementary school?
Let's just all be dancers for now ^^ because we're probably going to get the shaft in the next update lol.
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Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-06-17 16:14:00
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Sylph.Kimble said: Nightfyre, generally wondering, how do you get your merits? Solo/MMM at present. I'm far harder on myself than other people... more comfortable getting EXP on my own until my DRG is up to scratch or I level and get basic merits into DNC.
But that's not efficient! ;p
Yes i'm being a smart ***, sorry ;x.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 16:14:42
It's efficient for everyone else =P
Besides, more time on BLU for me!
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Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-06-17 16:17:04
Leviathan.Dubont said: or thornny will just sell his account again... Never bought or sold an account. Try harder.
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Ramuh.Krizz
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23561
By Ramuh.Krizz 2010-06-17 16:18:20
Valefor.Angeluzun said: So let me see if I follow the last 5 pages: Thornyy tells people to focus on healing as dnc.
someone asks him to list his dnc gear to prove the value of his critique, which he does, and causes an argument over daggers
the "everyone plays differently" logic rears its head
Thornyy becomes regarded as an elitist jerk after posting mathematical data to back up his argument
some people see the light!
Thornyy and Nightfyre are still jerks though
So? How'd I do? Pro
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Ragnarok.Faiye
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 164
By Ragnarok.Faiye 2010-06-17 18:32:53
Leviathan.Thornyy said: I'm trying to prove how much of a homo elitist I am by listing my awesome video game accomplishments! It only took 1 whole year of not seeing direct sunlight!
Seriously, nobody cares how super cool you are. If you're going to post like an a$$hole then you already know what comes next.
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-17 18:44:21
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 616
By Valefor.Angeluzun 2010-06-17 19:11:29
Well, if nothing else I might think about re-doing DM for Suppa at lv90, cuz 30% delay reduction actually sounds like its worth it... now if SE would only say how high dnc DW is going to go, or, more specifically how high /dnc DW will go
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-17 19:13:50
Ragnarok.Faiye said: Leviathan.Thornyy said: I'm trying to prove how much of a homo elitist I am by listing my awesome video game accomplishments! It only took 1 whole year of not seeing direct sunlight!
Seriously, nobody cares how super cool you are. If you're going to post like an a$$hole then you already know what comes next.
At least he actually gets achievement and gratification in game, All you get is a lousy sense of humour and bad skills/gear.
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By Darkpearl 2010-06-17 20:13:40
I think this game should be forbidden to PPL with brain under age 18...
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Cerberus.Ferth
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 78
By Cerberus.Ferth 2010-06-17 20:19:04
Call me crazy but I haven't seen Nightfyre say anything that would really qualify him as a jerk. He's been one of the most level headed poster's this entire thread.
And while thornyy's initial post in the thread was very negative all of his argumenting points are very cogent.
Not everyone (in fact, hardly anyone) is going to bother with seeing other people's perspectives on a forum, You don't need to be nice to anonymous names.
That doesn't make it right, But you won't be changing anyone any time soon.
kozuki, however, makes horrible arguments we are supposed to take her word on from anecdotal experience, and vehemently refuses to accept that math has any place in a debate about a game purely run by numbers with a glossy veneer painted over it so we don't get bored watching all the random number generation thats going on.
Yeah I don't think Thornyy calling her an ugly *** helps his argument any... but that doesn't make his points invalid.
And also;
"That's like being at work and not having your friend tell you you forgot your pants cause he didn't want to embarrass you. ><"
...needs to be on a T-shirt or something, cause that ***'s hilarious.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 616
By Valefor.Angeluzun 2010-06-17 20:59:34
If my memory serves me, the personal attacks didn't start until... yep, right about here:
Leviathan.Duvessa said: Leviathan.Thornyy said: Duvess.Ingame said: Papilio > Athame ahahahahahahahahahaha
Haha, no you dumbass. I said Papilio is a MUCH better mainhand. It's not my fault you can't draw that from the statement about the DMG.
And we were comparing Papilo and the Kartika you mentioned you had also. I said situationally Papilio would still be better than Kartika.
before that it was about using the jobs biggest strength efficiently
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Leviathan.Dubont
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 21:01:40
can this thread just be about Thornyy and how much of a douche he is?
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Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-06-17 21:05:55
Leviathan.Dubont said: can this thread just be about Thornyy and how much of a douche he is? I get it, you don't like me. Nobody gives a ***. You've said nothing about DNC, nothing about anything relevant, and still managed to make nearly a dozen posts blindly calling me an ***. You can call me a jerk, Kozuki can cry in a corner that I made her feel insecure/stupid, and Kimble can deal with his gf being bitchy for a day because of it.. but when it comes down to it, everything useful in this thread was posted by me.
I'm sure that makes you feel so superior, have fun working on your CoP missions and city dynas after playing for 3 years.
The worst part? You try to pull off the same attitude, you just don't have anywhere near the intelligence, knowledge, or balls to do it right.
PS. Cut your hair.
Leviathan.Dubont
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 21:08:10
Leviathan.Thornyy said: Leviathan.Dubont said: can this thread just be about Thornyy and how much of a douche he is? I get it, you don't like me. Nobody gives a ***. You've said nothing about DNC, nothing about anything relevant, and still managed to make nearly a dozen posts blindly calling me an ***.
I'm sure that makes you feel so superior, have fun working on your CoP missions and city dynas after playing for 3 years.
The worst part? You try to pull off the same attitude, you just don't have anywhere near the intelligence, knowledge, or balls to do it right. >.> played for more than 3 years but I will most definitely have fun! I have a life outside of game and I'm in no rush to run through this game multiple times just to sell the accounts then use the money to buy gil and repeat the process like SOMEONE we all know and love
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Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-06-17 21:08:58
Leviathan.Dubont said: >.> played for more than 3 years but I will most definitely have fun! I have a life outside of game and I'm in no rush to run through this game multiple times just to sell the accounts then use the money to buy gil and repeat the process like SOMEONE we all know and love Why would I sell accounts to buy gil? Are you HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, or do you just have no idea how to form a coherent personal attack? Better yet, name an account I sold. Anyone who knows me knows I can make gil easily enough, I've done in excess of 800k/hr average for a 15 hour sample.
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Leviathan.Dubont
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 21:09:32
Leviathan.Thornyy said: Leviathan.Dubont said: >.> played for more than 3 years but I will most definitely have fun! I have a life outside of game and I'm in no rush to run through this game multiple times just to sell the accounts then use the money to buy gil and repeat the process like SOMEONE we all know and love Why would I sell accounts to buy gil? Are you HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, or do you just have no idea how to form a coherent personal attack? truth hurts kid
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Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-06-17 21:11:32
Say something with meaning, anything. I'm bored waiting for a limbus zone to open up and you're not giving me ***to work with.
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Leviathan.Dubont
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 21:13:05
Leviathan.Thornyy said: Say something with meaning, anything. I'm bored waiting for a limbus zone to open up and you're not giving me ***to work with. how about you try to play 1 day without belittling every person that you come across that doesn't have your same lack of RL time?
Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-06-17 21:20:58
Leviathan.Dubont said: how about you try to play 1 day without belittling every person that you come across that doesn't have your same lack of RL time? If you knew anything about me, you'd know I don't care how much gil or gear you have. I don't care if you have NQ dusk, ***.. I don't even care you have a headlong belt. I'll even let the lack of prince's slops slide. There's nothing wrong with having cheap AH gear, because as you said, different people have different options, both in terms of endgame shells and time available. What does bother me is the bushinomimi and drone earring in your tp set, the commodore frac in your ws set, etc.. blatantly terrible decisions when they are easily fixed without a drastic time investment.
What I can't stand is stupidity. Believe it or not, I don't openly go around telling people how gimp they are if they don't say anything to me.. the problem comes from idiots like Kozuki and Duvessa that profess their inane drivel to others. They're wrong, I explain clearly why they're wrong, and they don't drop it, so what if I make them look like morons? You'd think by now people would have learned that if I'm posting math, they've already lost.
This is a job forum, it's not solely to pat each other on the back and tell each other how great DNC is. Noobs come here to ask questions about it, and people spewing that nonsense all over convinces those noobs that it could be true. If they start doing it, it's that many more crappy DNCs I need to deal with.
Now, while you're trying to act superior and make implications about my life outside FFXI, think about the fact you've made 13 posts in a thread regarding a job you don't have above level 10 with no relevance to the job solely to bash me for being here. If you're off banging hot chicks all day, you shouldn't have time to come here and make comments akin to the average 14-year-old's insult regarding me out of nowhere.
Leviathan.Dubont
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-17 21:26:42
Leviathan.Thornyy said: Leviathan.Dubont said: how about you try to play 1 day without belittling every person that you come across that doesn't have your same lack of RL time? If you knew anything about me, you'd know I don't care how much gil or gear you have. I don't care if you have NQ dusk, ***.. I don't even care you have a headlong belt. I'll even let the lack of prince's slops slide. There's nothing wrong with having cheap AH gear, because as you said, different people have different options, both in terms of endgame shells and time available. What does bother me is the bushinomimi and drone earring in your tp set, the commodore frac in your ws set, etc.. blatantly terrible decisions when they are easily fixed without a drastic time investment.
suggest better then. Also, you obviously do care about gear. A little over 2 years ago in Sea Serpent Grotto u bitched out my old shell leader for using Jet Seraweels on RDM and completely refused to offer any other gear suggestions. All you did was *** and laugh about it.
Now, the frac I understand, but seeing as how I'm currently 0/13 with nyzul floors on pickups, Denali is a little out of reach atm.
Bush? and what would you rather me have? Triumph that adds the same amount of str?
Drone? Obviously Triumph but aside from that, what else?
Give suggestions along with your belittlement and maybe I'll take your advice. HOLY ***never thought about that did you?
Edit: In regards to me not having DNC, try looking at my second account (Which I haven't played since I achieved lv 75 as far as gearing) Bnard. Level 75 Dnc.
Yes, the title remains true if you're male or female. Either way, you're a dancing queen.
This new update will bolster lots of improvements to the already amazing job of Dancer. Though not many people know its strengths, its already rather exceptional in merit parties and in DRK zergs.
Here is a list of the changes for DNC in an easy to read list complete with your loyal FFXIAH Dancer's commentary on the additions:
Presto (DNC Lv.77 Recast: 15 sec ~ Duration: 30 sec.)
Enhances the effect of your next step and grants you an additional finishing move.
This means stronger debuffs, and 3 finishing moves per step. Steps have 15 sec cooldown, so does this JA.
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Divine Waltz II (DNC Lv.78 Ability Delay: 20 sec.)
Restores the HP of all party members within a small radius.
Gogo more potent Curaga dance. Not much more to say.
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Climactic Flourish (DNC Lv.80 Ability Delay: 90 sec.)
Allows you to deal critical hits. Requires at least one finishing move.
If this stacks with WS’s then you can crit on… Dancing Edge. This = absolute WIN.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Crit. Atk. Bonus: Improves power of critical hits. Dnc level 80
Bad ass job trait… Who doesn’t want stronger crits? This in combo with Climactic Finish will result in basically a potent replacement for Sneak Attack.
Tactical Parry: Grants bonus TP when parrying an attack. DNC 77
Extra TP off those odd parries. Can’t hurt, right?
Skillchain Bonus Improves skillchain damage. DNC 45
Extra damage for skillchains? Also bad ass… Though situational unless you actually solo skillchains on DNC. Typically a waste of finishing moves though.
Conserve TP Occasionally cuts down TP cost of weapon skills. Dnc 77
Once again… Another bad ass addition to the Dancer arsenal. The chance to retain some of your TP upon WS’ing is very cool.
Dancers will be able to perform the ability "Cure Waltz" on non-party members.
Awesome. Sucked being a solo DNC in campaign sometimes when you could only heal yourself. Now you can also help cure alliance members too!
Now… Last but certainly not least… In fact this is easily the best new thing:
The "Dual Wield" job trait will become available to dancers at level 20, with the degree of mastery increasing in stages thereafter.
Yes… yes that’s right… Dnc/War, Dnc/Sam, Dnc/Thf, Dnc/Drk, Dnc/anything you can think of for boosted DD potential with the ability to still dual wield since Dancer will get the trait themselves… absolute madness. Possibilities are endless… Dnc/Whm with aspir samba to get mp for extra cures is always nice. Also Dnc/Drk will have 2 stuns. Violent flourish is a stun with a 20 second cooldown that already exists in-game, btw.
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