DNC: The New Queen Of FFXI!
DNC: The new queen of FFXI!
Whenever I'm home, we play together. We duo (with boxes, so trio?) salvage in our spare time. I'm rarely waiting on him unless he's finishing something he started when I was away. I don't see what you're getting at.
If you really want me to dig through your posts and drag up all your NIN ***, I can. I'd rather we go back to the topic at hand and you either admit you're wrong or tell me why we're wrong.
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Genuine question, If you like to DD on DNC as well as buff/cure (please try to put aside your view of DNC Main heal only for a minute) Would that dagger set up be best for that or would there be better?
I think you're wrong because you think DNC is only a healer with haste samba, and can't be played any other way effectively. If the DNC needs that minor extra tp so badly from offhanding a bad dps weapon, then your mages are doing something wrong, your dd's are doing something wrong, or your pt is set up wrong.
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Sylph.Kimble said:
Genuine question, If you like to DD on DNC as well as buff/cure (please try to put aside your view of DNC Main heal only for a minute) Would that dagger set up be best for that or would there be better?
If-Then tree for DNC weapon choice
1.Do You Suck?
Yes - Quit DNC
No - Get an Athame.
2.Does your TP keep up with the healing requirements of your party?
Yes - Skip to 4
No - Continue to 3
3. Is your accuracy capped with a Joyeuse?
Yes - Use Athame/Joyeuse
No - Use Athame/Cinqedea
4. Do you have Red Mages healing that could be nuking? By could be nuking, I mean the mob must be reasonably susceptible to nukes.
Yes - Go to 3. Take over some of your RDM's duty and let them nuke with their free MP.
No - Continue to 5.
5. Could any of your mages swap to a DD job if you healed more?
Yes - Go to 3. Take over some of your mage's duty and allow your group to have an additional DD that easily outdoes your WS damage.
No - Continue to 6.
6. Are you lying to yourself on any of the previous questions?
Yes - For Shame.
No - Proceed to 7.
7. Is your accuracy capped with a joyeuse?
Yes - Use Athame/Joyeuse for damage.
No - Use DEXkini/Athame for damage.
Efficiency aside;
Capped Acc, regardless: Athame/Joyeuse
Uncapped Acc, TP gain: Athame/Cinqedea
Uncapped Acc, Damage: DEXkini/Athame
You can fit STR dakini instead of DEX dakini if you have capped accuracy with daggers but not sword.
It's not about anyone doing anything wrong, it's about the ability to increase your overall efficiency. Comparing DNC WS to DNC cures and RDM cures to RDM nukes makes it very obvious. If you cannot properly use your TP to cure, and aren't pushing your limits, you can likely afford to have more DD and less mages in your alliance, adding a single DD will outstrip the difference between using your TP on waltz and using it on damage by miles. Before you start spewing more idiocy, I'm talking in general, as DNC is particularly useful in dynamis and einherjar as well. It's not uncommon to be able to WS in a merit party, but it's still not your primary goal. If you're WSing frequently, your DD damn well better be using hasso(or in the case of MNK, /war and counterstance). With Hasso DD it's tough to keep up, a counterstanced MNK is much easier to maintain and should afford you more chances to weaponskill.
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While I understand people saying who cares about skill chains and added damage to Dnc, in a standard 6 man party or alliance situation.
I do like the fact that a smaller party will benefit from it a lot more, after all SE are talking about smaller teams doing more and more as we progress.
So having a job that can buff, debuff, Cure and bring some damage to the table can only be a good thing.
I'm very interested to see how Dnc/sam works out, I see people laughing and saying dnc needs them shadows but tbh that's bollocks in a lot of cases. Even when soloing some of the harder nms now on Dnc, Id be happier with no shadows and more tp.
I do like the fact that a smaller party will benefit from it a lot more, after all SE are talking about smaller teams doing more and more as we progress.
So having a job that can buff, debuff, Cure and bring some damage to the table can only be a good thing.
I'm very interested to see how Dnc/sam works out, I see people laughing and saying dnc needs them shadows but tbh that's bollocks in a lot of cases. Even when soloing some of the harder nms now on Dnc, Id be happier with no shadows and more tp.
Leviathan.Revgrigor said:
I <3 threads that niniann and thornyy post in. Not because I lol at elitists, but because its funny watching ppl try to call them out on ***only to be shot down hard.
^
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I think you are missing the point. I know your views on how DNC should be played and while I don't 100% agree with you, it is what it is. No point in debating that.
People like to play different ways. Just how it is. some people like to have fun at the cost of some efficiency, others find it fun to be as efficient as possible.
I see you answered the question at the end of the post though. Just trying to make the point, not everyone plays how you do nor do they want to. Which is why people dont agree with Main handing Athame.
I just see everything as a debate. People will have their point of views and the best way to have a good debate without resulting to name calling is to try and see the other persons point of view and try to see where they are coming from.
You have great math skills, I give you that. Your people skills just seem to be lacking. (Based purely on boards as I dont know how you interact with people irl when trying to prove a point)
People like to play different ways. Just how it is. some people like to have fun at the cost of some efficiency, others find it fun to be as efficient as possible.
I see you answered the question at the end of the post though. Just trying to make the point, not everyone plays how you do nor do they want to. Which is why people dont agree with Main handing Athame.
I just see everything as a debate. People will have their point of views and the best way to have a good debate without resulting to name calling is to try and see the other persons point of view and try to see where they are coming from.
You have great math skills, I give you that. Your people skills just seem to be lacking. (Based purely on boards as I dont know how you interact with people irl when trying to prove a point)
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What i want to know is why argue about it we all play the way we want to play.. there is NO right and NO wrong way to play a job, its up to you!!!
one say's you must use these Daggers for DNC duh.. other says um no use these. just agree to disagree
neither of you is right as we can play however we want.
^^
one say's you must use these Daggers for DNC duh.. other says um no use these. just agree to disagree
neither of you is right as we can play however we want.
^^
Quote:
Which is why people dont agree with Main handing Athame.
The only times mainhand/offhand were brought up were when Duvessa said it to save face and when your girlfriend bashed Niniann for something on ffxiah equip screen(Really? If that was accurate, my MNK would be half naked..) with no consideration for situation.
When a WHM isn't healing, they simply aren't doing anything. Are you saying RDM is the only healer, and WHM should never be used?
With a good RDM, using saber dance + DDing adds more dmg than a RDM spamming nukes...
With a good RDM, using saber dance + DDing adds more dmg than a RDM spamming nukes...
Asura.Yurisaki said:
What i want to know is why argue about it we all play the way we want to play.. there is NO right and NO wrong way to play a job, its up to you!!!
one say's you must use these Daggers for DNC duh.. other says um no use these. just agree to disagree
neither of you is right as we can play however we want.
^^
one say's you must use these Daggers for DNC duh.. other says um no use these. just agree to disagree
neither of you is right as we can play however we want.
^^
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Sylph.Kozuki said:
When a WHM isn't healing, they simply aren't doing anything. Are you saying RDM is the only healer, and WHM should never be used?
1.Do You Suck?
Yes - Quit DNC
No - Get an Athame. - Going to guess you're in the process of this, we can pretend you're done though.
2.Does your TP keep up with the healing requirements of your party?
Yes - Skip to 4 - Yep, yep.
No - Continue to 3
3. Is your accuracy capped with a Joyeuse?
Yes - Use Athame/Joyeuse
No - Use Athame/Cinqedea
4. Do you have Red Mages healing that could be nuking? By could be nuking, I mean the mob must be reasonably susceptible to nukes.
Yes - Go to 3. Take over some of your RDM's duty and let them nuke with their free MP.
No - Continue to 5. - Here's where you got lost. No RDMs means no RDMs healing that could be nuking. Simple. Continue.
5. Could any of your mages swap to a DD job if you healed more?
Yes - Go to 3. Take over some of your mage's duty and allow your group to have an additional DD that easily outdoes your WS damage.
No - Continue to 6.
6. Are you lying to yourself on any of the previous questions?
Yes - For Shame.
No - Proceed to 7.
7. Is your accuracy capped with a joyeuse?
Yes - Use Athame/Joyeuse for damage.
No - Use DEXkini/Athame for damage.
You need to complete the bolded part! There are isolated situations where full DD is viable, but they're rare and far between.
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I don't have an athame because I quit the game. I was close to getting it. A dnc can't mainheal solo with 0 support 100%, and haste + dia is better than having another DD.
If you'd give up Haste and Dia, you can't afford to drop a mage. Continue to 6.
Asura.Yurisaki said:
What i want to know is why argue about it we all play the way we want to play.. there is NO right and NO wrong way to play a job, its up to you!!!
one say's you must use these Daggers for DNC duh.. other says um no use these. just agree to disagree
neither of you is right as we can play however we want.
^^
one say's you must use these Daggers for DNC duh.. other says um no use these. just agree to disagree
neither of you is right as we can play however we want.
^^
straight out of the gimp handbook. first, said gimp tries to offer an opinion, which he/she says is correct.
they promptly get mathematically proven wrong by someone who understands the game, and whose mule is better geared than their main
then, since they can't prove their opinion is right, they throw up their hands and declare that there IS no right answer, even though there clearly is
INC RL card
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Have you read anything I said? The removing mages part primarily applies to dynamis/einherjar, where your party setup will be something like:
DNC
BRD-Rotating if you do that
COR
DD
DD
DD
with a seperate mage assigned to haste elsewhere. If you're meritting with a WHM, go for it, DD, just keep an eye on the damage dealers because a WHM absolutely cannot keep up with a hassoed DD forever unless they're meleeing with a good boon setup. If you're meritting with a RDM, same applies, but you may not even need to heal if you have counterstanced MNKs as opposed to traditional hassoed DD.
I'm in no way trying to say that DNC DD is nonexistant, I'm saying that if you can alter your setup in any way to take advantage of their cures, it'll almost always be more efficient.
DNC
BRD-Rotating if you do that
COR
DD
DD
DD
with a seperate mage assigned to haste elsewhere. If you're meritting with a WHM, go for it, DD, just keep an eye on the damage dealers because a WHM absolutely cannot keep up with a hassoed DD forever unless they're meleeing with a good boon setup. If you're meritting with a RDM, same applies, but you may not even need to heal if you have counterstanced MNKs as opposed to traditional hassoed DD.
I'm in no way trying to say that DNC DD is nonexistant, I'm saying that if you can alter your setup in any way to take advantage of their cures, it'll almost always be more efficient.
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Eh, I'm pretty sure Building Flourish merits are without question "doing it wrong".
1 Your opinion = i don't give a ***! :P
2 I merited Haste once new lvl cap was confirmed :P
3 I play my way! = doing it right.
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Leviathan.Thornyy said:
Have you read anything I said? The removing mages part primarily applies to dynamis/einherjar, where your party setup will be something like:
DNC
BRD-Rotating if you do that
COR
DD
DD
DD
with a seperate mage assigned to haste elsewhere. If you're meritting with a WHM, go for it, DD, just keep an eye on the damage dealers because a WHM absolutely cannot keep up with a hassoed DD forever unless they're meleeing with a good boon setup. If you're meritting with a RDM, same applies, but you may not even need to heal if you have counterstanced MNKs as opposed to traditional hassoed DD.
I'm in no way trying to say that DNC DD is nonexistant, I'm saying that if you can alter your setup in any way to take advantage of their cures, it'll almost always be more efficient.
DNC
BRD-Rotating if you do that
COR
DD
DD
DD
with a seperate mage assigned to haste elsewhere. If you're meritting with a WHM, go for it, DD, just keep an eye on the damage dealers because a WHM absolutely cannot keep up with a hassoed DD forever unless they're meleeing with a good boon setup. If you're meritting with a RDM, same applies, but you may not even need to heal if you have counterstanced MNKs as opposed to traditional hassoed DD.
I'm in no way trying to say that DNC DD is nonexistant, I'm saying that if you can alter your setup in any way to take advantage of their cures, it'll almost always be more efficient.
If the healer is good, I don't have to heal except in extreme emergencies, if the healer is bad, I have to take over mainhealing. That's how it always has been for me.
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Sylph.Kozuki said:
WHM has the easiest time out of all healers keeping alive hasso'd DD's..
If the healer is good, I don't have to heal except in extreme emergencies, if the healer is bad, I have to take over mainhealing. That's how it always has been for me.
If the healer is good, I don't have to heal except in extreme emergencies, if the healer is bad, I have to take over mainhealing. That's how it always has been for me.
Quote:
our sample RDM has stone mufflers, stone gorget, poison tasters cape, morrigan's robe, duelist's chapeau. They composure stoneskin, haste, refresh, regen and idle in orochi nodowa. During most convert cycles(8 min 20 secs, full merits of course), regen will be down for 225 seconds and up for 275 seconds. In some cases, it'll be down at start/end and you'll lose a bit of hp, but can overlook this as it favors running out of mp not sustaining it. This amounts to 459 hp. Regen trait and orochi nodowa will get you an additional 334, for 793 total. Now, assuming your perfect RDM has a 1200 convert, you'll need to cure4 yourself once, for 88 mp. This makes the cost of a convert cycle 88 mp, keeping composure cycle seperate. Each composure will use up 40 mp for haste, 40 for refresh, 29 for stoneskin, and 15 for regen. This is 124 mp per 7.5 minutes, or 16.5 mp per minute used. 88 / 8 1/3 = 10.5 mp per minute used. Self-sustainment costs 27 mp per minute. Your DD will require 3 hastes, at 120 mp per 3 minutes. This amounts to 40 mp per minute. Total cost: 67 mp per minute. At 250 exp per kill, 40k/hr is 160 monsters, or a kill every 22.5 seconds. This amounts to 120 mp per minute in dia. Stoneskin -should- cover poison potions as well as reflected dias when recast every 7:30 with gorget/mufflers, though it'll be close. Total cost: 187 mp per minute.
Convert will be 1200 mp every 8:20, which gives you 138 mp per minute. 12/tick with ballads and evokers is 240 mp per minute, grand total: 378 mp per minute regained and 187 spent on static spells. 191 mp per minute to spend on cures.
Assuming each colibri gets 4 hits in, as they have a 6 second delay with elegy and no delay on first swing(~180 damage each) and every 6th colibri gets a pecking flurry(600), you're looking at 820 damage per colibri or 2186 damage per minute to heal with your remaining 191 mp. You can't even make half of that, so it's safe to say that your DD are going to need to seigan, even with all of this perfection. If you're going to mention resting, a dia every 22.5 seconds limits you to one click at a time if you do it immediately after dia(first click is 20 seconds) and requires that you don't have to cast any spells in between. Realistically, this will not amount to anything over time, and you'll also need to cast erase. Wivre and Mamool will do more damage.
I don't give a *** how good your healer is, you're not keeping up with fulltime hasso while diaing every mob.
Swapping to seigan costs you a weaponskill about every 20 seconds. Real DD will drastically outdamage DNC WS for WS, so you're just making an idiot out of yourself acting as if your damage is worth making someone seigan.
Convert will be 1200 mp every 8:20, which gives you 138 mp per minute. 12/tick with ballads and evokers is 240 mp per minute, grand total: 378 mp per minute regained and 187 spent on static spells. 191 mp per minute to spend on cures.
Assuming each colibri gets 4 hits in, as they have a 6 second delay with elegy and no delay on first swing(~180 damage each) and every 6th colibri gets a pecking flurry(600), you're looking at 820 damage per colibri or 2186 damage per minute to heal with your remaining 191 mp. You can't even make half of that, so it's safe to say that your DD are going to need to seigan, even with all of this perfection. If you're going to mention resting, a dia every 22.5 seconds limits you to one click at a time if you do it immediately after dia(first click is 20 seconds) and requires that you don't have to cast any spells in between. Realistically, this will not amount to anything over time, and you'll also need to cast erase. Wivre and Mamool will do more damage.
I don't give a *** how good your healer is, you're not keeping up with fulltime hasso while diaing every mob.
Swapping to seigan costs you a weaponskill about every 20 seconds. Real DD will drastically outdamage DNC WS for WS, so you're just making an idiot out of yourself acting as if your damage is worth making someone seigan.
Running out for a bit, I'll be back to answer your drivel later.
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Leviathan.Thornyy said:
I am an elitist BG homo who has nothing important to contribute to the subject of this thread.
Just ignore the trolls people, if you stop giving him an audience to continually spew his BS then hopefully he will go away.
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Your math is wrong because that doesn't happen in game at all. You can't do math for how the game is played..merit pts are eratic and random. Nothing is done like we're robots.
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Ragnarok.Faiye said:
Leviathan.Thornyy said:
I am an elitist BG homo who has nothing important to contribute to the subject of this thread.
Just ignore the trolls people, if you stop giving him an audience to continually spew his BS then hopefully he will go away.
[+]
Ragnarok.Faiye said:
Leviathan.Thornyy said:
I am an elitist BG homo who has nothing important to contribute to the subject of this thread.
Just ignore the trolls people, if you stop giving him an audience to continually spew his BS then hopefully he will go away.
Sylph.Kozuki said:
Your math is wrong because that doesn't happen in game at all. You can't do math for how the game is played..merit pts are eratic and random. Nothing is done like we're robots.
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Data? I've played the game and seen it myself, my in game experiences show me that what he said is wrong.
Ragnarok.Faiye said:
Just ignore the trolls people, if you stop giving him an audience to continually spew his BS then hopefully he will go away.
Man, I need to get my WHM leveled before the update, but this has got me itching to get out the ol' dancing shoes again. Crap >.<
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