NIN Can't DD

quit playing with 5% haste sams

More like quit playing w/ afk sams

true this lol, in fact quit playing with askar head sams <,< screw walmart turban

I could be off a bit, but I don't think it's more than 50 delay on equal grounds; capped acc, same speed buffs, what-not else (standard GK 6-hit).

That's where you made your mistake though. They don't have the same speed buffs. Sam has hasso, also many less attack rounds to 100 tp

these hypothetical sams are clearly /nin using seigan

ah yeas, always forget hasso, do some quick rematz. so it's more like 150 delay difference or so (still haven't recalculated for capped acc on nin, but that should be close enough).

edit; this makes me wonder if I remembered to account for stp on nin, did all those calc.s with half my brain asleep... haha

edit2; bah, remembered some stp, but never bothered to toss in usukane boots (which should drop 1 round with rajas+brutal).

edit3; after going over most of the same math from yesterday, I found some numbers that seem quite off. total difference in delay (to 100%) is closer to 400, giving sam ~50% edge. still trying to find out what caused the discrepancy, but I'm calling it a lack of sleep atm, lol.

You're right about the low sidewinders, 2k on birds is still low, 2.5-2.8 with minuets no food, 4k+ with zerk and meats. Rng should've been doing high 300's with shots.

SAM with a 6hit 450 GKT
SAM has a 6hit

NIN with combined delay of 400 (240 delay with AF and Supp)
NIN has a 13hit (Rajas, Usu feet and Usu body)

Both jobs can use the same TP gear, so we will assume 19% haste (Turban, dusk hands, byakko, usu feet, swift).

We will do this with and without outside buffs cos I am bored.

Zero outside haste:
SAM time to 100TP:
((450*.81)*6)/60 = 36.45 seconds

NIN time to 100TP:
((240/0.81)*13)/60 = 42.12 seconds

Percentage difference:
15.5%

Double marhch and haste (35% haste):
SAM time to 100TP:
((450*.46)*6)/60 = 20.7 seconds

NIN time to 100TP:
((240/0.46)*13)/60 = 23.92 seconds

Percentage difference:
15.5%

The SAM mans up and uses Hasso
SAM time to 100TP:
((450*.36)*6)/60 = 16.2 seconds

NIN time to 100TP:
((240/0.46)*13)/60 = 23.92 seconds

Percentage difference:
47.6%

So at no point can NIN match the TP gain of an equally geared SAM.

The DoT damage won't be that close either. Although NIN hits twice as many times in the same period (very approximatly) the base D of a katna is a lot more than half that of a hagun and SAM will have more STR and Attack (due to job and 2handed update).

Didn't use sword strap. A usu body/feet sam should be using that. In which case Sam would be even further ahead.

Edit: also Nin can't be using usu body and AF at the same time.

you can parse all you want math nerds, it still won't change the inevitable truth that NIN is a decent DD.

Just like Corsair!

actually, less, since COR has useful JAs

Does anybody else realize that everybody is comparing nin to Sam in this thread?
So here's my question, if the statement is ninja cannot dd wouldn't the fact that everybody is talking about ninjas not being able to keep up with SAMs, already prove that it can dd.
I have out parsed alot of SAMs in my day, while being main assist or tanking. Not bad sams, not askar body sams, just good sams getting beat. Were forgetting that sams weaponskills seem to miss a decent amount.
I will say this, if you are on ninja, and you outparse your Sam at bird camp, kick your Sam and laugh at him.
One thing I would like to do, get sombody else to tank and let me go all out riding innin and just dd on birds, see if then I can beat some of these SAMs.
But anyway the statement ninja can't dd is false, admit it. We all know 100 dark knights that can't dd, half of them with apoc. But the best dd in this game? Sam, hands down, congrats.

another lolSAM bandwagon groupie, but I guess someone has to set the bar at the lower end of the DD spectrum for NIN to have some kind of hope.

Really? Idk really what your saying. I'm just saying ninja is an effective dd. Ask anybody who has merited with me.

Vestal party was one of the better merit parties I've had, but everyone pulled their own weight.

You sir are amazing.

He doesn't even have sam leveled, he's just stating a fact >.>

hey, just because a wrestler is juiced up on steriods and can smash a wall to pieces doesnt make him an effective fighter

while this doesn't have much of anything to do with the subject, juiced up (real, not "pro")wrestlers who could smash a wall to peices(Mark Kerr, Brock Lesnar) have proven to be pretty damned effective fighters

very true, Brock is one scary man. But my point is, you can't compare NIN to just SAM because there are other melee jobs and even mage jobs that can still outDD NIN. So in the end, NIN can outDD some jobs, but not others.

All Im saying is ninja can dd. Gonna stop reading in fear that it's going to start getting into WWE...

Too late.

LMFAO!

True on both counts. But both of these things favour NIN and yet it is still miles behind.

Ninjas cap accuracy guys

@ Argettio

is dual wield calculated in that? not from gear but from natural traits?

not that it'd change the difference that much but still should be accounted for

Yeah I covered dual wield @ 30% from traits and then 10% from gear.

I also failed to cover the fact that 13hits to 100TP isn't realistic as you have to do 7 attack rounds which is 14 swings (and 14hits if you assume 100% acc).