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FFXI, Horizon, Conflict, Renaissance, and You.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 107
By Asura.Toeknee 2023-12-26 02:25:51
'you're a masochist and you game bad because you enjoy something i don't'
????
who cares, what's the end goal? yes retail is a vastly superior game, but some people like the inferior version. it doesn't matter what you think is better, you're clearly not the target audience. the only concept that's not being understood is you not getting the very basic concept that people like different things and their just voicing their love for said thing.
the change of pace and differences between the game (and all MMO's) 15 years ago and now is interesting and it'd actually make for a fun discussion considering we've all been around for all the changes/pservers/new games etc. ya'll just keep going on these unhinged rants about what is and isn't the proper way and era to play a game
By ilugmat 2023-12-26 05:07:25
Once you've said what you wanted to say it's time to just tap out and stop caring about these horizon threads, if anyone want to play in some guys bedroom server where they can read all your chat logs let them do it.
Ultimately, all that is really happening is you're just keeping the thread bumped and effectively just advertising the server on the primary forum for XI on the daily. Which is what they want.
Bismarck.Stephenjd
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 202
By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2023-12-26 05:58:58
'you're a masochist and you game bad because you enjoy something i don't'
????
who cares, what's the end goal? yes retail is a vastly superior game, but some people like the inferior version. it doesn't matter what you think is better, you're clearly not the target audience. the only concept that's not being understood is you not getting the very basic concept that people like different things and their just voicing their love for said thing.
the change of pace and differences between the game (and all MMO's) 15 years ago and now is interesting and it'd actually make for a fun discussion considering we've all been around for all the changes/pservers/new games etc. ya'll just keep going on these unhinged rants about what is and isn't the proper way and era to play a game
People can obviously like whatever the hell they want. Coming in here and saying Horizon is more of a challenge than retail etc is downright false information though. Also who is ranting in an unhinged way? I see mainly calm discussion here?
Once you've said what you wanted to say it's time to just tap out and stop caring about these horizon threads, if anyone want to play in some guys bedroom server where they can read all your chat logs let them do it.
Ultimately, all that is really happening is you're just keeping the thread bumped and effectively just advertising the server on the primary forum for XI on the daily. Which is what they want.
Unfortunately that was always going to be the case the minute this subforum was opened here. I don't personally go to the Horizon discord and ***all over Horizon and say it's easy and all that nonsense.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 441
By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2023-12-26 12:31:36
I'd say raging and shitting on people saying they're enjoying themselves is a far dumber thing to be doing than grinding exp on horizon
Except nobody is doing that. If Horizon stans stopped at "I enjoy grinding in Horizon" there'd be no -real- issues. It's when they try to slip in, "..and it's objectively better than anything retail has to offer", you get the hate of the masses.
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Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2254
By Shiva.Thorny 2023-12-26 12:50:51
The idea that it's harder is ridiculous, too. It's grindier, sure, in some ways. But, you objectively cannot defend the idea that it's harder.. your ability list, movement speed, TP gain speed, and available fast cast cut your max APM to half or less what they are in retail. You are literally doing less in every fight you partake in. By definition, it cannot be harder.
By Tarage 2023-12-26 14:30:42
No one cared about Horizon until they A. Got a board on this site and B. Spammed streamers and everyone checking out the game becsuse of the 14 raid series. You notice how no one is yelling about any of the other private servers? It's like furries yelling about how they're a marginalized class while dry humping each other in front of kids. "Shut up about it and no one will give a ***.:
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By GetHelpNerd 2023-12-26 16:05:21
imagine being scragg and giving 0 *** about what the 9 people who post non stop horizon hate think
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Asura.Gweivyth 2023-12-26 20:36:08
The idea that it's harder is ridiculous, too. It's grindier, sure, in some ways. But, you objectively cannot defend the idea that it's harder.. your ability list, movement speed, TP gain speed, and available fast cast cut your max APM to half or less what they are in retail. You are literally doing less in every fight you partake in. By definition, it cannot be harder. Hell I wouldn't even argue that it's grindier either, trying to play catch up to everyone who has been playing non stop has basically been a full time job.
By fillerbunny9 2023-12-26 21:05:34
imagine being scragg and giving 0 *** about what the 9 people who post non stop horizon hate think imagine being a Horizon player so desperate to proselytize the private server, that they request a board for it on a site catering to retail players.
By GetHelpNerd 2023-12-26 21:16:02
pretty sure it was already addressed that this wasn't requested but who knows which locked thread that was in
By fillerbunny9 2023-12-26 21:27:42
oh right, it was someone from a supposedly different private server. it's an easy mistake to make though, since the Horizon stans won't shut up about it everywhere else on the internet.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 160
By Asura.Gweivyth 2023-12-26 21:53:45
The weird thinh is that it may not have even been an actual staff member of any server, we used to get a lot of weirdos who would pretend to be staff on Wings and Eden to...clout chase I guess? Not even really sure what the point is but it happened at least once a month.
By K123 2023-12-27 01:59:21
The idea that it's harder is ridiculous, too. It's grindier, sure, in some ways. But, you objectively cannot defend the idea that it's harder.. your ability list, movement speed, TP gain speed, and available fast cast cut your max APM to half or less what they are in retail. You are literally doing less in every fight you partake in. By definition, it cannot be harder. It's an MMO. The hardness comes from dealing with people within constraints.
Any notion that retail FFXI has ever been about anything more than play time spent to accomplish goals is ridiculous too. Anyone that never realised more time = more accomplished is practically the only factor that ever mattered in FFXI is deluded and only making themselves feel better about all the time spent on it by telling themselves they were "skilled".
Beyond that it was all bots, hacks, addons, automated play, and mass multiboxing. Not to mention 90% of people on Asura (the only active server) buy shitloads of gil.
When you take out PLing, multiboxing, afk botting, buying gil, etc. Horizon is a harder game.
By K123 2023-12-27 02:01:56
No one cared about Horizon until they A. Got a board on this site and B. Spammed streamers and everyone checking out the game becsuse of the 14 raid series. You notice how no one is yelling about any of the other private servers? It's like furries yelling about how they're a marginalized class while dry humping each other in front of kids. "Shut up about it and no one will give a ***.: Yeah I never heard of Horizon until I saw it on FFXIAH.
A couple of things though - graphics by default are better on Horizon than retail, and the launcher is infinitely faster and more enjoyable. Why can't SE just fix these things without pulling *** excuses?
Bahamut.Vethric
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Bahamut.Vethric 2023-12-27 02:27:40
When you take out PLing, multiboxing, afk botting, buying gil, etc. Horizon is a harder game.
would love to see the average horizoners take a stab at ody v25s when they can barely handle Adamantoise. any notion of horizon being more difficult comes from the perspective of people who don't use gearsets and think bloodtanking should be the dominant meta (because they're too bad/cheap/lazy to sub nin)
sure, sure, everything probably seems insanely difficult when you play an already-solved game in the dumbest ways possible because it's the exact same way you remember playing it when you were 13
By K123 2023-12-27 02:33:23
Anyone playing FFXI at 13 had bad parents. I met a 10 year old girl once too.
By Tarage 2023-12-27 02:45:58
You know what? I take back everything. I'm sorry for everything I said. I hope you continue to enjoy Horizon and I won't post anymore.
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By K123 2023-12-27 02:46:03
When you take out PLing, multiboxing, afk botting, buying gil, etc. Horizon is a harder game.
would love to see the average horizoners take a stab at ody v25s when they can barely handle Adamantoise. any notion of horizon being more difficult comes from the perspective of people who don't use gearsets and think bloodtanking should be the dominant meta (because they're too bad/cheap/lazy to sub nin)
sure, sure, everything probably seems insanely difficult when you play an already-solved game in the dumbest ways possible because it's the exact same way you remember playing it when you were 13 P.S. I've done all T1+T2 and half of T3 v25 Ody in pick up groups... the T3s I haven't done have mostly been bad luck, with pure luck being a major factor as everyone attests to on this forum.
Bahamut.Vethric
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Bahamut.Vethric 2023-12-27 02:50:56
currently watching a full alliance (with like a whole party of extra bodies) wiping to Fafnir. the dragon you don't need more than ~8 people for.
it's not that horizon is harder. it's that the average Horizon Andy is dogsh*t, full stop
By K123 2023-12-27 03:03:05
currently watching a full alliance (with like a whole party of extra bodies) wiping to Fafnir. the dragon you don't need more than ~8 people for.
it's not that horizon is harder. it's that the average Horizon Andy is dogsh*t, full stop I'm not commenting on end game. I'm level 12.
Asura.Natenn
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2023-12-27 03:13:33
You know what? I take back everything. I'm sorry for everything I said. I hope you continue to enjoy Horizon and I won't post anymore. we finally reached 1 boys! Bless you good ser (or ma'am)
Bahamut.Vethric
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Bahamut.Vethric 2023-12-27 03:18:45
I'm not commenting on end game. I'm level 12.
i mean if you're arguing that leveling thf to 75 in that era is 'harder' than 99 in modern retail, sure, that is objectively true for a lot of reasons
but playing thf at 99 in modern retail is much 'harder' than playing thf at 75 in era, for a lot of reasons
anyway, mostly i'm saying if anyone thinks the average Horizoner could even clear this month's V1VD ambuscade that is some serious cope. they can barely handle Kirin's baby gods
By K123 2023-12-27 03:24:29
I'm not commenting on end game. I'm level 12.
i mean if you're arguing that leveling thf to 75 in that era is 'harder' than 99 in modern retail, sure, that is objectively true for a lot of reasons
but playing thf at 99 in modern retail is much 'harder' than playing thf at 75 in era, for a lot of reasons
anyway, mostly i'm saying if anyone thinks the average Horizoner could even clear this month's V1VD ambuscade that is some serious cope. they can barely handle Kirin's baby gods I don't really understand your rambling. All I know is I looked on your profile and 100% of posts are on threads related to Horizon, so I don't you what this says about you.
Bahamut.Vethric
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 63
By Bahamut.Vethric 2023-12-27 04:26:24
I don't really understand your rambling. All I know is I looked on your profile and 100% of posts are on threads related to Horizon, so I don't you what this says about you.
cool projection, chief. are you feeling insecure about your own post history? maybe now that you've run out of constructive arguments (if there ever were any in the first place) it's time to go back to your dunes struggle parties. if that's what you think is the 'hardest part of ffxi' i know exactly what this says about you :)
By K123 2023-12-27 04:59:23
I don't really understand your rambling. All I know is I looked on your profile and 100% of posts are on threads related to Horizon, so I don't you what this says about you.
cool projection, chief. are you feeling insecure about your own post history? maybe now that you've run out of constructive arguments (if there ever were any in the first place) it's time to go back to your dunes struggle parties. if that's what you think is the 'hardest part of ffxi' i know exactly what this says about you :) Ok sir. Did you make this account for the sole purpose of hating on Horizon? Or to tell us how content which can be pugged is epic hard for you?
Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2254
By Shiva.Thorny 2023-12-27 05:49:40
He obviously made the account to hate on Horizon, but doesn't change his point. Let's see a single Horizon stan with R30 Nyame, or even Bumba V25 access. No, getting your T2s in shout and exaggerating about your T3s doesn't count for anything. My impression is that anyone who moved over to Horizon just to call it 'hard' felt bad they couldn't stay up to date on retail and want to add some accomplishment to perception of Horizon because their life is empty.
There are perfectly reasonable arguments in favor of Horizon.
-Less cheating
-More real people playing, less multiboxing
-Slower gameplay that doesn't require you to tryhard
-Nostalgia
Difficulty is not, and never will be, one of them.
An addendum: There is nothing wrong with enjoying easy games. You can play through a RPG on story difficulty just to enjoy the story without engaging your brain/motor skills. It doesn't make you less of a man. Most serious gamers would consider retail XI easy, too. It's just no comparison to how simple 75 era is.
By K123 2023-12-27 06:25:32
He obviously made the account to hate on Horizon, but doesn't change his point. Let's see a single Horizon stan with R30 Nyame, or even Bumba V25 access. No, getting your T2s in shout and exaggerating about your T3s doesn't count for anything. My impression is that anyone who moved over to Horizon just to call it 'hard' felt bad they couldn't stay up to date on retail and want to add some accomplishment to perception of Horizon because their life is empty.
There are perfectly reasonable arguments in favor of Horizon.
-Less cheating
-More real people playing, less multiboxing
-Slower gameplay that doesn't require you to tryhard
-Nostalgia
Difficulty is not, and never will be, one of them.
An addendum: There is nothing wrong with enjoying easy games. You can play through a RPG on story difficulty just to enjoy the story without engaging your brain/motor skills. It doesn't make you less of a man. Hard isn't the right word, I agree, but it does feel more rewarding than retail. Retail = get a job burned to 99 in a couple of hours, mastered afk or paying RMT bots, then Master levelled the same way. Bot gil or buy it, do your dailies like a good ***, then go back to grinding mundane (sortie) or luck-based (Ody) content. Neither are hard, and FFXI retail is extremely rewarding up to a point. Beyond that point if you want to compete you either bot more gil and M levels or buy gil and pay for them, then go back to grinding dumb content.
Neither are hard, neither require skill more so than they require time played, neither are truly good uses of our lives, etc. but if the ultimate aim of playing video games is enjoyment and happiness, then shitting on people for enjoying something you don't is beyond dumb.
I enjoyed 100s of hours on Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced. Would I be hated for that, or is it just Horizon people will hate on like this? I think it says more about those posters than Horizon.
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By K123 2023-12-27 06:27:58
I'd be playing something other than Horizon if I thought there was anything out there worth playing that I would like. Refuse to play FFXIII, FFXIV, FFXV, and probably wouldn't play FFXVI. I tried KH3 and couldn't stand it, played Octopath Traveller but it was very grindy and didn't see point in playing the 2nd game.
I only really like RPG and Tactical RPG outside of Halo so it's pretty slim pickings.
By Nariont 2023-12-27 06:28:44
Retail = get a job burned to 99 in a couple of hours, mastered afk or paying RMT bots, then Master levelled the same way
No, that's how you choose to play retail. Not every server is asura/bahamut and you could choose to not use those methods anytime.
A horizon player could just smn burn themselves to 75, same outcome.
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By K123 2023-12-27 06:32:41
There's no point not to play that way when it's easier to make gil than level a job. That humans will go for the path of least resistance has been discussed endlessly on this forum.
I wondered about SMN burning, are people doing that in Horizon or was it prevented somehow? I expected it wouldn't be allowed even if it was possible in old retail.
I live again!!!
I used to play FF11, so did my SO. But that was long ago~
We’ve been playing FF14 for several years now with another couple, and a handful of family members and mutual friends. Every one of them has a prior history with the final fantasy franchise as a whole, though from different generations. In our banter at one time or another everyone has expressed a curiosity for FF11 which they had heard was both a masterpiece in its own right, as well as a rather daunting and at times a crushing experience. There is also a perception of boring gameplay (somehow the classic ‘I hit you, you hit me, then I hit you again’ RPG gameplay loop just isn’t doing it for em. Spoiled). Sadly, I corroborated this for them and helped to solidify that opinion. I’m sure many similar conversations have been had from former players of FF11 to curious people of a younger gaming generation about FF11 in its early iterations. I suspect this mentality and perspective is a factor in people seeking out private servers. It certainly was in the case of my group.
After Yoshi P announced the upcoming raid with ties to FF11, each of the people in our group became instantly interested in playing the game. Our messiah Yoshi Pesus had spoken. Everyone asked me, with clear apprehension "how should we go about it?? What do we have to do to experience the story and clear the 'main content'"? Initially I facepalmed and rolled my eyes, but I also figured I too would like to see the close of the FF11 story I never completed. As the pied piper considering getting ready to lead his flock into the fucking dunes, I started to dread the learning curve everyone was going to hit more or less immediately upon login.
To counter that, I figured a private server would likely be the way to go. Presumably, we could just “godmode” or something and stomp our way through all the bullshit, speed/position hack and see the story as painlessly as possible. Well not quite. It turns out I knew nothing about private servers, and it turns out “godmode” is the trust system and other QOL and travel adjustments they made to retail over the years. But let me back up for a second. In researching options for private servers I found out a lot of concerning information about private servers, and the general lack of options (WIP pet projects). All of it covered in the other threads, ranging from leadership concerns, to absolutely stupid changes to the game itself (e.g. THF changes), and a butchered soundtrack. The final nail in the coffin really being that if you want to see the full story it’s going to have to be on retail. But even without story as a consideration, after researching enough about Horizon and other private servers it’s become a no brainer for the group. Fuck it, just play retail. Turns out that was a great decision.
The learning curve for everyone is still steep, but there are guides. Everyone has been enjoying it so far, they love the story, they enjoy the simplified “zen” of exp grinding (which I bitter-sweetly remind them is “not as painful as it used to be”). They’re around lvl 70 now, starting on CoP, finished Nation rank ups, and the Zilart missions. They suck, every new moment is a challenge for them. It’s been a blast.
Now, none of this would have happened within my group without Yoshi P giving FF11 a major publicity bump by attaching it to FF14. I suspect that’s a significant factor going on for Horizons success. Just lucky with great timing. FF11 got the Yoshi P bump, but FF11 has a sort of infamy to it that gamers are aware of, and subsequently might be more likely to consider a private server first. Especially if they have had any influence on their perspective either from past play of 11 like myself, or opinions and anecdotes of past players. Horizon is definitely riding on that wave.
It’s just a perfect storm of opportunity and timing for Horizons leadership. I don’t think they’re that smart (look at their administrative in-house drama), they might be finding ways to capitalize on it now sure, but I think it’s mostly just luck and timing.
Now having said all that… I definitely now think the hostility to Horizon is warranted. My group alone resulted in 6 people buying the game and starting a sub, and the renewal of my and my SO’s sub. While 8 people is not that many people, I think its fair to say that if I didn’t look closely into private servers vs retail, I and my crew would likely have found ourselves on Horizon, and there would be that much less money going to FF11. I wonder how many other people responding to the Yoshi P bump are being funneled to horizon instead of retail due to aforementioned reasons, and what a waste that is since as far as I can tell, Yoshi P doing this crossover raid is an attempt at the initial steps for extending a lifeline to FF11.
If players do their homework and still decide to play on a… quasi-elementary-school-birdhouse-project-failure of a private server like Horizon, aight cool homie, whatever makes you happy, the world could use more happy people. Go play it champ. Throw some Ridill’s on some shit. Go get that E-body. And a pair of gaiters.
Horizon keeps getting attributed as having a sense of community, but if people come over to FF11 with their own community already from FF14, as is the case in my group. Well, that becomes a moot point. So does FF11's existing stale community. What you'll have is an opportunity for people to just start importing their own communities into your greater one. Your feelings on FF14 tourists bringing their culture to this antique game may vary, but that's another topic.
Yoshi P, and Horizon have created a renaissance opportunity for FF11 I think. The conflict you all are having is actually probably good for the game. And that will be my last point for now that I wish to make, and also a thank you of sorts to the people here who care enough about the game to make noise.
I don’t wanna name names or anything, Draylo. Because I’m definitely not here to point fingers, Homsar. But seeing everyone aggressively hash it out here was indeed a significant factor in my groups decision of where to play. It gave me things to consider and trails of information to investigate elsewhere so I could make the right decision for my groups needs/interests.
So like… thanks you guys. Please don’t stop fighting the good/stupid fight. I need you. We need you. And you didn’t even know it. Promote whatever you want, and promote with all your sincerity. Sane or not.
Never stop duking it out.
Yall are like the ROV conclusion (spoilers) The winds of conflict must ever blow over vanadiel lest it be consumed by the cloud of darkness.
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