Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
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 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-05-03 22:55:01
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Shiva.Arenegeth said: »
Three questions:
1. Why Fast Cast instead of Waltz Potency as the extra augment for the Master Mab set? Besides for reapplying shadows and the occasional use as /mage are there any other benefits? Just trying to weigh pros and cons so I can pick one.

It's for shadows. After you get all of your pet gear, you're ALMOST NEVER going to pull your weapons out. And chances are good you're going to need to swap them between tanking and ready moves and possibly an idle set if you are super hardcore. So /dnc is worthless unless you are just running around and want a free S/I.

Shiva.Arenegeth said: »
2. An LS mate was telling me about how Fireball is Breath dmg since it goes through shadows without taking them down. Is that true? If not, are the Breath Augments good for any ready move?

It's just AoE magic damage. I haven't see anyone ever try to claim it is breath damage. In fact, breath damage doesn't even work like that, so I know for a fact that it's just magic.

Shiva.Arenegeth said: »
3. Is there a Ready move scenario where Reforged Empy hands are not the best to use? Besides during Unleash of course. I already got 25 pet mab on a hands slot and trying to figure if is worth keeping or if I should rewrite (an Unleash set sounds a bit excessive at this point).

Precast in Empy hands, cast in atk/acc/mab hands. Gearswap can do this, and from my testing, using just <wait1> on the ready move line and gearswapping to cast set SEEMS to give both bonuses using just in game macros.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2015-05-04 00:36:23
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Regarding the Fast Cast: there are some other jobs on the Taeon Armor set that can also benefit from that stat, even if they have better alternatives in some slots.

--
Only consider adding "Breath" augments to your Acro gear if you also plan on using it for your DRG's wyvern - it's useless for any and all BST ready moves.

--
You need to midcast in Empyrean hands to get the TP bonus. And yes, there are a couple of potential scenarios where reforged Empyrean might not be the best option and you rightly named one of them. :)

The others would be:
- For magic Ready moves, a MAB+25 augment will beat TP Bonus+600 hands in the 2000-3000 TP range (1500-3000 range for WAR pets).
- Extremely high content level where you require the extra accuracy/m.accuracy.
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By poorenglish 2015-05-04 00:50:25
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What kind of numbers should I be expecting in Fireball? I dropped about 20 mil for around +130 pet MAB and fireball is still doing about 2.5-3k dmg to just plain old dynamis mobs. I've still yet to test other magic pets but yeah. Something tells me it's not going to scale well at all.
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By Leviathan.Malthar 2015-05-04 01:32:24
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You need a good balance between pet mab/macc.
 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2015-05-04 08:57:00
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poorenglish said: »
What kind of numbers should I be expecting in Fireball? I dropped about 20 mil for around +130 pet MAB and fireball is still doing about 2.5-3k dmg to just plain old dynamis mobs. I've still yet to test other magic pets but yeah. Something tells me it's not going to scale well at all.

With 10/10 Ready job points it should deal ~2.4k as a base amount.


Adding in 500-800 TP Bonus and all the Pet:MAB you've got... it should be skirting 6k? And then 8-9k+ with 10/10 Spur/Food.

My Pet:MAB is less impressive and I get around 6.5k with Spur up.



Cursed Sphere is ~20% stronger if you like.
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By Shiva.Larrymc 2015-05-04 09:39:35
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As malthar said, regarding fireball (or any pet magical ready move), a common mistake people make is stacking pure pet magic attack.
The most important attribute for fireball is pet: magic accuracy.
Without sufficient pet magic accuracy your fireballs will hit the 1/2 damage, 1/4 damage or 1/8 damage resist tiers every time, and seem weak. If your fireballs are doing 2.5k you are hitting the 1/2 damage resist level.

If your doing less than 5k on average you need more pet magic accuracy, not pet magic attack.

You should have around 60 pet magic accuracy in your set (from gear & weapons - not including food).
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By Shiva.Malthar 2015-05-04 21:56:47
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Hello Falkirk,
There has been a rumor gong around that you've done some testing on the Aymur and found that it wasn't as good as originally thought.

Care to comment?
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By Shiva.Larrymc 2015-05-06 14:49:10
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Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
poorenglish said: »
What kind of numbers should I be expecting in Fireball? I dropped about 20 mil for around +130 pet MAB and fireball is still doing about 2.5-3k dmg to just plain old dynamis mobs. I've still yet to test other magic pets but yeah. Something tells me it's not going to scale well at all.

With 10/10 Ready job points it should deal ~2.4k as a base amount.


Adding in 500-800 TP Bonus and all the Pet:MAB you've got... it should be skirting 6k? And then 8-9k+ with 10/10 Spur/Food.

My Pet:MAB is less impressive and I get around 6.5k with Spur up.



Cursed Sphere is ~20% stronger if you like.

I want to thank you for this comment -- I have been enjoying using fireball on lots of things usually in the 7-10k damage range. Your comment about about cursed sphere caused me to look at that ready move again, and you are correct, it is just a tad stronger than fireball. On Acuexes, for example, which are weak to fire, a fresh spur + fireball was doing around 9.5k each. On the same mob, a fresh spur + cursed sphere was doing 11k each. Not only that, but cursed sphere does much better on butterflys. I did notice I was hitting the 50% resist tier more often with it - meaning if I AoE a bunch of acues, some would be hit for 11k, some for 5.5k - so I need to push my pet m.acc up a bit more for consistency.

I think the lizard still has more versaility because you can SC/MB with it - it has 3 different forms of damage (blunt, slashing, magic). But for just raw AoE magic damage, the fly is better.
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By SathQuetz 2015-05-06 14:49:26
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Echoing the Pet MACC > Pet MAB statement. Recently swapped some of the MACC+20-25 augments I had for MAB+20-25. Worst decision I've made on BST yet. My average damage on anything that matters has dropped considerably.

Edit: Something maybe worth testing for those of you who aren't in the middle of finals week. It seems that Molting Plumage does not benefit from 119 empy hands TP bonus (in limited testing during HTB). This could be an incorrect assumption due to rounding of damage on 1/8th resists or something else, but disabling hand slot through gearswap and testing regimen mittens vs. nukumi +1 was giving me the same damage for 1/8th resist yesterday.

The same isn't true for 1/8th resist from Fireball or Cursed Sphere. MP has "area of effect varies with TP" which is opposed to "damage varies with TP". This may be well-known or obvious based on the move description, but I had overlooked it.

Are there other ready moves that may not benefit from TP bonus in a similar fashion?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2015-05-06 20:49:53
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Shiva.Malthar said: »
Hello Falkirk,
There has been a rumor gong around that you've done some testing on the Aymur and found that it wasn't as good as originally thought.

Care to comment?

Sure. A friend of mine (who also has an Aymur) was doing an investigation into Sweeping Gouge and fTP stuff for Ready moves in general. He noticed something bizarre though - basically, wearing Aymur by itself (TP Bonus+1000) and spamming Ready moves was weaker than Anahera Tabar+Nukumi Manoplas+1 (TP Bonus+600).

You can easily test this yourself by using magical damage ready moves (for consistency) like Cursed Sphere against Wild Rabbits in West Ronfaure:

Aymur only - Cursed Sphere DMG = 4043
Nukumi Manoplas+1 (+Anahera Tabar) - Cursed Sphere DMG = 4094

The only difference in play is the amount of TP Bonus your pet has. So from this, and a variety of other tests, he surmised that whenever you execute a Ready command with TP < 1000, your pet's TP in the precast phase is hardcoded to be 1000.

Think of it as a holdover from the days when our pets were more like actual "monsters" - when SE abolished the minimum TP requirements, they actually just gave a behind-the-scenes boost to 1000 so they didn't have to rework their fTP formulas. This finding not only explains the strange TP Bonus issue, but also coincides with Ready move damage and buffs not increasing in potency/duration until your pet has TP > 1000.



Rage/Scissor Guard/Zealous Snort all have fixed durations until TP is > 1000. You get the picture.

So with that in mind, what does the complete TP spectrum look like from 0-3000?



For WAR pets with Fencer V, the window from 1000-2500 is where we can influence the resulting damage by adding TP bonus. And for non-WARs like the boar pet it looks like this:



Because of the rate at which we spam Ready moves, our TP amount tends to be ~250 or less, so we're relying almost exclusively on TP Bonus to increase our damage in that regard (just set aside things like Attack etc for now).

Most BSTs can use Alluvion Axe x 2 with TP Bonus+200 augment, plus Nukumi Manoplas+1 for a total of TP Bonus+1000. So with a WAR pet they're already at 2500 effective TP when spamming Razor Fangs or whatever. And since TP potency starts to scale poorly beyond 2000 TP (less than 1/3rd as potent from that point onward), it isn't a huge deal that they can't get much further at this time.

Now, for you and I, when we use Aymur in our precast we actually aren't benefiting at all from the initial 500 TP bonus because after the precast is over our pet's TP is hardcoded to be 1000 anyway. So what we really have is a 500 TP midcast from Aymur + a 200 TP Bonus Alluvion Axe offhand + 600 Nukumi+1 hands. We are at an advantage by 300 TP, and it certainly helps a bit, but it's unfortunately past the threshold where TP Bonus is most attractive. We're spamming 2800 effective TP Razor Fangs, and we get a large boost from Pet:Attack+80 simultaneously (Pet:Attack+128 for Randy), but it's not quite as large of a difference as previously thought.

You would be able to take advantage of Aymur's precast TP Bonus if your pet could earn more than 500 TP in the melee phase before executing your next Ready move though (perhaps if you couldn't offhand Charmer's Merlin for some reason? Or using 3-charge Ready moves? I dunno).

Sorry for the lengthy explanation, I hope that was clear.

tl;dr: Aymur is still the best, but because of the way Ready moves are calculated, the gap between a Mythic BST and a regular BST isn't as wide as you might think.
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By Shiva.Malthar 2015-05-07 00:59:39
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This is a very good explanation. Thank you for the enlightenment.

I guess SE's laziness works in our favor that we start from 1000 TP, if not a bit disappointing.

In regard to not getting the +500 tp bonus from Aymur in precast, I gear double attack for my pet and have a cor that does companion's roll, so my pet regularly has >1000 tp when I execute a ready move. That could explain why I pull so far ahead of the parse than any other bst.

The warthog with double attack, max haste, zealous snort, familiar, and aftermath III is insane, btw. He looks like a monk on crack!
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 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2015-05-07 04:21:35
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SathQuetz said: »
Are there other ready moves that may not benefit from TP bonus in a similar fashion?

Maybe you already looked these up by now, but if ya didn't, here's the list... :)

Ready moves that deal damage, but the damage does not vary by TP:
Foot Kick (Crit. rate varies)
Whirl Claws (AoE varies)
Bubble Shower (AoE varies)
Big Scissors (Crit. rate varies)
Molting Plumage (AoE varies)
Swooping Frenzy (Duration of effects varies)
Pentapeck (Duration of effect varies)
Frogkick (Defense ignored varies)
Queesyshroom (Duration of effect varies)
Numbshroom (Duration of effect varies)
Shakeshroom (Duration of effect varies)
Silence Gas (Duration of effect varies)
Dark Spore (Duration of effect varies)
Venom (Duration of effect varies)
Stink Bomb (Duration of effects varies)
Nectarous Deluge (Duration of effect varies)
Nepenthic Plunge (Duration of effects varies)
Power Attack (Crit. rate varies)
Sickle Slash (Crit. rate varies)
Spiral Spin (Duration of effect varies)
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 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2015-05-07 12:40:59
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Hmmm... I wonder if it's worth it to compile a list of ftp modifiers for ready moves. It could possibly show an optimal TP range for each move.
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By SathQuetz 2015-05-07 14:07:10
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So this begs the question (primarily because I'm not that great at gearswap) is there an easy way to incorporate the midcast TP bonus rule for hands along with a check for the above TP moves?

In theory I'm sure there is, but every time I try to make even the slightest changes to the pet midcast stuff in a slightly modified version of your base BST lua (from like 2 months ago) everything just goes to ***.
 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2015-05-07 15:21:53
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Shiva.Malthar said: »
Hmmm... I wonder if it's worth it to compile a list of ftp modifiers for ready moves. It could possibly show an optimal TP range for each move.

Actually, from what I've seen, they all follow the same trend, so you can reference the above graphs and apply them to any damaging Ready move (that varies with TP).

Ideally you want to be (at least) above the 2000 TP mark. So for WAR pets, you're in good shape as soon as you have Empyrean Hands+2/Reforged Empyrean. For non-WARs you'll always have at least 2000 TP if you use 2x Alluvion Axes w/TP Bonus+200 and Nukumi Manoplas+1. :)

SathQuetz said: »
So this begs the question (primarily because I'm not that great at gearswap) is there an easy way to incorporate the midcast TP bonus rule for hands along with a check for the above TP moves?

In theory I'm sure there is, but every time I try to make even the slightest changes to the pet midcast stuff in a slightly modified version of your base BST lua (from like 2 months ago) everything just goes to ***.

Great idea, I'll cook something up asap and post an updated version. :)
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By Felgarr 2015-05-07 16:02:17
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Falkirk: Is HQ Bonnet needed in your reward set? (I don't think it is).

Also, what Group 1/2 merits do you currently use?

Thanks!
 Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2015-05-07 16:10:27
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NQ Bonnet is fine, if that's what you're asking.

Group 1 Merits:
Reward 5/5
Ready Recast 5/5

Group 2 Merits:
Feral Howl 1/5
Killer Instinct 1/5
Beast Affinity 5/5 (for lizard pet)
Beast Healer 3/5
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-05-07 16:39:41
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So as a freshly minted 119 BST, where would the best place to get JP be outside of a CP party? Anywhere special the job excels are just the usual haunts.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-05-07 21:58:03
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
So as a freshly minted 119 BST, where would the best place to get JP be outside of a CP party? Anywhere special the job excels are just the usual haunts.

Two spots.

If your gear is okay(119) Moh Gates Hidden zone smashing Efts and Leeches. You can solo here pretty well. If you have ASA pants and Charmer's Merlin, you can mostly just use Randy to Razor Fang everything to death. If not, I like using Ibuki and doing Swooping Frenzy> Cloudsplitter. Even at 1000tp it usually 1-shots things(I have a full MAB set for it though).

If you gear is REALLY good, NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING can touch a BST Cleaving the entire zone in Doh Gates with the Grasshopper pet.
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By SathQuetz 2015-05-08 03:23:23
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Duoed more hours of skirmish today than I care to admit and was able to transition decently from full MAB to medium MACC set without more than ~10m out of pocket.

Did some before and after tests on Puppet in Peril D with a BST pal. Long and short of it was that for me +25-30ish MACC did absolutely nothing, for partner +70-80ish MACC effectively doubled his damage.

For Molting Plumage (no need for nukumi hands) I'm sitting at +117 Pet: MACC with +60 Pet: MAB before Rolanberry Daifuku +1 and Familiar (for some INT?) and I can count on one hand the number of 2200 dmg+ MPs I saw over the course of two 20 minute fights. 90% of them were around 1000-1100ish with only a handful of higher resists < 800.

With the absolute upper limit of Pet: MACC from gear being around +200 with only +17 MAB? (12 mantle + 5 neck) is it reasonable to expect that we can get to a point where pets will be unresisted in D-level fights for magic ready?

I know some of you have some good MACC sets so I'm very interested in your opinions before I go any further with mine.
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2015-05-09 00:35:52
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Question about Ready Recast down gear!

When equipped before a Ready, the first Charge's timer is affected but I've noticed Charge 2 and 3 return back to their normal timer. Is there some way to alleviate this or is it required that you full-time it for 10s Ready?
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2015-05-09 04:54:08
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Question about Ready Recast down gear!

When equipped before a Ready, the first Charge's timer is affected but I've noticed Charge 2 and 3 return back to their normal timer. Is there some way to alleviate this or is it required that you full-time it for 10s Ready?

March Version Update: Known Issues said:
After using the beastmaster ability "Ready" equipping any item that reduces Ready's recast time, the new recast time may occasionally not be reflected in the UI.

The subsequent charges are still actually reduced, but if you're looking at the in-game menu it won't have the correct recast displayed.
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2015-05-09 10:38:52
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I use /recast in my macros to show Ready charges. Interesting to know.
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By Bahamut.Darksouls 2015-05-10 23:49:05
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Maybe this question has been asked before.
Is there a way to keep the minimum ready recast timer and max ready potency without using Gearswap, which using Desultor Tassets & Charmer's merlin pre-cast and 2 allu skrimish axe (+200 tp bonus) & skirmish pants mid-cast. Thank you.
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By Shiva.Arenegeth 2015-05-11 04:12:53
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Bahamut.Darksouls said: »
Maybe this question has been asked before.
Is there a way to keep the minimum ready recast timer and max ready potency without using Gearswap, which using Desultor Tassets & Charmer's merlin pre-cast and 2 allu skrimish axe (+200 tp bonus) & skirmish pants mid-cast. Thank you.

It's possible. Here's how I do it.

/equipset 1
/ready move 1
/ready move 2
/ready move 3 <wait.5>
/equipset 2 <wait1>
/equipset 3

Equipset 1 is the ready precast set which is only Charmer's Merlin and the ASA pants. Equipset 2 is the Ready dmg set physical or magical depending. Equipset 3 is the pet dt set to default back to between ready moves.

If you want to have more than three ready moves per macro can just ignore the final line and add another ready move instead, and manually hit another separate macro between moves for the DT set.
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By Bahamut.Darksouls 2015-05-11 04:26:41
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Shiva.Arenegeth said: »
Bahamut.Darksouls said: »
Maybe this question has been asked before.
Is there a way to keep the minimum ready recast timer and max ready potency without using Gearswap, which using Desultor Tassets & Charmer's merlin pre-cast and 2 allu skrimish axe (+200 tp bonus) & skirmish pants mid-cast. Thank you.

It's possible. Here's how I do it.

/equipset 1
/ready move 1
/ready move 2
/ready move 3 <wait.5>
/equipset 2 <wait1>
/equipset 3

Equipset 1 is the ready precast set which is only Charmer's Merlin and the ASA pants. Equipset 2 is the Ready dmg set physical or magical depending. Equipset 3 is the pet dt set to default back to between ready moves.

If you want to have more than three ready moves per macro can just ignore the final line and add another ready move instead, and manually hit another separate macro between moves for the DT set.
Thank you very much for the quick reply.
I will try this out
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By Asura.Calatilla 2015-05-13 08:15:57
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Anyone got any solo tips for Sinna on BST? I popped it, did Ruin > Frenzy then snarled it onto my pet and set it to stay, turned to put shadows back up and it turns round and hits me. Casting utsusemi is more hate than doing a skillchain with my pet?

I soloed it on BST awhile ago, before the enmity update but this time I can't seem to keep hate on the pet at all. Is he still killable on BST?
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By Carbuncle.Kyawind 2015-05-13 09:47:42
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omg.... how can my life suck so bad in my work... hmmm i missed alot of the updates so mostly i have question...

i had semi half gimp gear thats like ok for the start-mid of adoulin content like 6months back i think??

but i have a mythic... but what should i off hand??
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-05-13 15:40:39
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Asura.Calatilla said: »
Anyone got any solo tips for Sinna on BST? I popped it, did Ruin > Frenzy then snarled it onto my pet and set it to stay, turned to put shadows back up and it turns round and hits me. Casting utsusemi is more hate than doing a skillchain with my pet?

I soloed it on BST awhile ago, before the enmity update but this time I can't seem to keep hate on the pet at all. Is he still killable on BST?


Sinaa's instant kill move can be seen from a mile away. Any honestly, even if it did hit, chances are good you can summon two more pets anyway, Then just snarl hate onto them.

So anyway. Use Blackbeard Randy. Spam razor fang. If he uses his instant kill move, heel your pet and turn around. You shouldn't have any problems avoiding it. But if you do, summon another pet. Sinaa's hp is hella low, so he might die and never even use it.
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By Trulusia 2015-05-13 15:45:45
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Carbuncle.Kyawind said: »
i have a mythic... but what should i off hand??

Depends on what you are doing. From what I understand from Falkirk and Beastmazter's Aymur testing, Aymur is only particularly useful during the midcast since the first half of the tp bonus is rounded up to 1k anyway(unless your tp is already above 500). I could be wrong, but that is how it has been explained to me.

Anyway. For ready moves, Charmer's merlin. The five seconds you save means the world.

For idle/tanking, I have been using a Kumbra with dt and pet atk while main handing Izizoeksi. If you don't have those, you can probably full-time Aymur and Charmer's Merlin until you get them.
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