Ok...It Has To Be Said..

Claquesous also gets mad props from me, totally respect his opinion and he makes some good points. Perhaps I can explain a bit more without bringing my own experiences into play.

Let's say that X set of newbie armor during heavy inflation cost 100k. At the same time, a stack of fire crystals was also selling for about 20k, so five stacks of crystals and you got your armor.

That same set of armor now costs 10k. But a stack of crystals might be, say, 2k. It still takes five stacks of crystals to get the armor. In the end, it takes the same amount of "effort" as a new player in both scenarios, as far as time invested, to get your set of armor. The only real difference is a placebo-driven feeling that things are "cheaper" now when they really aren't.

But here's the problem.

As a general rule, the only types of players that are going to have significant amounts of liquid cash on them at any point in time are going to be endgame players. Players who already have most of the gear they need, or who only need one or two prestige items that require enormous of amounts of savings leading up to one big purchase. Players still coming up through the ranks are generally going to spend all of their gil on items and gear as soon as they get it, because it provides an immediate benefit to their gameplay and is necessary to progress upwards along the game's level and gear-based achievement scale.

In an inflationary economy, this gear investment is going to appreciate over time, while the worth of static gil sitting in someone's MH is depreciating. This means that in an inflationary economy, high-end players are generally having to constantly play a "keep up with the Joneses" thing by buying prestige items for ludicrous amounts of gil just, say, for the white border. That's why the ultra rare prestige items like say, Dusk+1, still manage to hover at 20M in some bazaars despite ludicrous deflation off comparable items. Every day a high-end player fails to log in and play, their net worth goes down.

In a deflationary economy however, gear is going to depreciate over time while gil is appreciating rapidly. Thus, players with liquid cash are going to be moved upwards in the relative scale with time while those who have all their net worth invested in gear are depreciating. This puts newer players and those still trying to get to 75 at a severe disadvantage compared to veterans already at end game. A greater disadvantage than they would be in an inflationary economy. Once it gets to the point that gil is appreciating at a percentage rate faster than a new player can even generate, that means the gap between the Haves and the Have Nots can only widen with time.

lol economic stimulus. our RL stimulus isn't doing ANYTHING for the economy just to point that out. MOST people are spending it on bills, not going out and buying a new TV or whatever. in fact the amount of money SPENT on sending out letters for it is just adding to the deficit. but back to the game. first off, what SE needs to do is make that "adventurer coupon" worth more than 50g.

<--agrees with darc about the coupon

-.- and why does it keep saying im 74 blm...iv been 75 for almost 2 yrs!!

Well, the constant I can see here is only that players with a considerable amount of gil, let's say over 100 mil, are unaffected both by inflation and deflation.

Players who're leveling their first or second job over 50 get the shaft. If the economy is inflationary they have to race with the prices. If they're not quick enough with accumulating gil, they'll either have to miss out on that particular piece of gear or put every free minute into gil-making.

In a deflationary economy they'll lose value if they're NOT selling their used equipment quick enough.

But to be honest I prefer deflation over inflation. I quit FFXI for a time when the crazy RMT-induced inflation was making the game unplayable for me. I could not buy the gear I needed to level because the prices rose daily. And don't come to me with "everything else was rising too". It didn't. Prices of spider webs stayed the same (about 10k at the time). And I was running out of places where I could farm crystals. Skilling up a craft, I did Alchemy, took too long and was not profitable at the low levels.

Rich players of course had no such problems. Quite the contrary, buying high-prestige items and selling it a month later would make them even richer. I'm sorry but there's something wrong with that. My opinion of course.

It's almost like in the real economy. Now that inflation hits my country the poor have to pay even more for day-to-day stuff (think shihei & mihtkabobs here) while it puts only a small dent into the rich' pockets.

well, quite honestly i don't have a problem with inflation or deflation and i don't have over 100M. not even 10M. i level all kinds of jobs and still continue to keep my base of gil. all i do is cook, literally. i don't farm crystals or anything like that. as far as selling prestige items for a profit, it comes with having that much gil. i do recall when dnc/sch came out that the prices of low level gear sky rocketed, so i really think it's all dependent on supply and demand.

on a side note, why stick with just spider webs? there are a lot of things to farm that people are too lazy to farm but they sell well. try farming buffalo for the milk. this game is just like real life as far as the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. even a poor player can start up cooking and make some profits at low levels. consumables is where the money is now. it's slow and steady gil, but it's reliable.

just my 2 cents.

Seriously, there really is more than one way to make gil. All because someone told you that Pashhow Marshlands was the absolute best farming spot for the silk, beehive chips, and blood (and the occassional boyahda moss/tree cuttings) doesn't mean it's the ONLY place, nor the only items that "bring in the gil."
Also, starting a level 1 job in, say, Sarutabaruta means you can sell stacks of crystals, Silk Threads, Rabbit Hides, Bird Feathers, Beehive Chips, Yagudo Necklaces, a crapload of other items that--let's face it, don't bring in 10k gil per stack, but a little bit of gil accumulates over a long period of time, if you stick to it and don't get impatient. Hell, if you save up enough gil, you can start a craft--Cooking, like Littledarc does. Iirc, some if not most of the ingredients are cheap if you go to Regional Merchant NPCs, and a ton of people depend on the food for stat boosters. Simple.

Oh, I know all that. Actually I'm not complaining of the current situation.

Back then it was hell. And for these reasons I was leveling other low-level jobs for crystals, trying to get Alchemy up, etc. However, the galopping inflation made even that a very very daunting task.

Spider webs were just an example. And once you got over a certain level with a new job you had to buy other equipment for even getting more crystals (remember crystals only drop while exp'ing?).. not a good way to accumulate gil.

So I'll stay with: I prefer deflation over inflation.

<--- prefers slightly inflated over deflated.

my reasoning is this:

i spend x amount to cook/craft something. if the economy is slightly inflated i can sell it a few at a time without undercutting and still profit. however if the economy is deflated i'll have to put ALL of them on the auction house ASAP to avoid more losses because they continue to lose value everyday that i keep them (which creates undercutting ect. ect.).

just my opinion on the way things work.

Rather impressed and amazed to see lines like this on a forum. With the "regular" FFXI forums I thought the only acceptable to a rebuttal was "OMFG STFU NOOB!"

Ok. Carry on. ^.^

Undercutting is not a problem, people not knowing how to undercut is the problem.

If an item is 1k, you undercut 10-20g max.
If an item is 8k, you undercut 100g max.
If an item is 20k, you undercut 500-2000g max.
If an item is 100k, you undercut 1-4k max.
If an item is 1mil, you undercut 9k max.

Any lower will def ensure a quicker sell, but you risk lowering the value.
Why these numbers? Because the higher price an item is, the less adjustments/bids someone will want to try to make. A 1mil item someone will try 900k, then they will try 910, up to 1mil, but if you sold at 991k, unless that person was really freaking desperate (not likely), its 95% likely to sell for 1mil, because what is 10k to you when your spending 1mil? Price doesn't change and your item sells fast.

Now you say its greedy to try to sell faster than others, I say you don't understand the game. If an item is 8k, and you list all yours for 8k, everyone else thats smart is gonna be listing 7901 to 7999.

Now, if its a low supply item, that commonly hits 0 stock, fine your item will sell. Try doing that to items like Squid sushi though, that NEVER hits 0 stock. Your item will simply never sell, and be returned to you.

Learn to properly undercut and your item will sell and keep the economy stable, and those who dont understand how to sell stuff like this on ah will be the ones not selling, they just need to learn.

ppl undercut to 7900, then other ppl under THAT to 7800 then undercut THAT to about 6k, and it just keeps going down until 0 are in stock then ppl bring it up to 8k again for about 15 mins and the cycle starts all over again. Nothing can keep stable.

i love server maintenance, it always get the forum discussion up again ^^

as far as your undercutting numbers Aikar, people will under cut the undercutters (as Dubont mentioned) just to make a quick buck because after all it's only a few K or a few 100.

I guess the forum starter isnt applying his own beliefs. When you undercut yourself, and dont buy items for more then the going rate... what point exactly are you trying to make?

STFU noob, I bet you did it more than once yourself, you dont like it, why don't you go play WoW, and stop crying like a baby,
Like the real world 2 shops will sell the same stuff and 1 WILL always under cut the other ITS LIFE deal with it!!

What kills me is an item that sells consistently for 40K and usually only 1 or 2 items are up on AH at a time. Then after a month of no price flux, someone sticks 20 of this item up on the AH at 2~3K under the normal price and f's everything up.

*sigh* So I yell a couple cuss words at my computer monitor (which, for some reason, never seems to respond) and, ultimately, I wait it out and move on with my life, secretly just wanting to punch a baby.

At the moment, unfortunately, I believe Dalneey is right on with the "it's life" comment. :( At least NPCs don't do that crap :D

Uh.... Remora is second highest of all the servers as far as economy stability... Mine is second to last... Why are you complaining?

What is killing me about Seraph is... (Not sure about other servers since I haven't been there..)



Absolutely right about that let me tell you. -_-;

A few other things to mention:

I'm not trying to be a 'smartass' I just really don't understand something.

Why would people undercut elemental staves so horribly? I didn't mind paying the 200k for a staff because I knew crafters got profit from it. The ores alone to make into beads are like 100K+ o_o;; (Because of how they're obtained, I'd imagine) Wouldn't it be better off just selling the ores than just making them? Of course that'd lead into people not crafting them probably (if they wanted the gil) but 10K for a Dark Staff on Seraph...

Don't get me wrong I like to have cheap gear but for some reason I can't help but feel bad for people that level'd their crafts high to make something like an elemental staff and end up getting garbage for profit. :(
Personally, I feel the staves should've never got that low in value since as far as I know the only other things good for mages are the +1's... But aren't those hard to make?

Over all the economy on my server hasn't been all that bad... it could be a lot worse but still. Like most people I assume, I try to make the most of it.

At one time I could farm silk threads, beastmen bloods, moss and cuttings and make a lot of gil within a week. Now it's hardly worth the time it takes to obtain the drops. I don't have a 75 thief nor do I know anyone that'd be willing to farm/fish with me if I made them food like Sushi. So farming/fishing takes time just like everything else in this game.

What really bums me out personally is the fact I could be fishing hours and end up with little to show for it depending on if someone beat me to the AH and tossed up like 20 stacks while I was gone fishing >_< You get frustrated obviously!

Now a days, I just garden Tokopekko wildgrass and sell it to the NPCs; leave my inventory open as much as possible for drops that happen to come into my inventory and sell them off to the NPCs or AH if it's worth it.

Also on a side note...

Has anyone noticed lately how the K-clubs are like everywhere you go o_o;?
Everywhere I walk to on my server I see at least 3 people or more a day with K-clubs and people also selling them for like 36-40mil a piece. I know that Moogle event had them as prizes but, I didn't think that many people got that rank in prize. I know they drop from BCNM60 but oh I don't know just was weird to me lol.

Anyone who chose K club over the 100m gil needs to be taken outside and beaten 2-8 times with a fire hose.

SE needs to lower NPC sale prices and up the amount stuff NPCs for.

Aikar Doesn't Lie about that, But Simply Yes there will be someone who undercuts Someone else but i think lets talk about something like PCC, Sometimes u find 6 in Stock then u'll find they get undercutted 50-10k Maybe! But then one day there's only 1 in Stock and that person is selling it for 50-90k more!! Really so the price sells for the same amount at the end! depending who you are in line as the seller!

Anyway ex i can use is when i bought my PCC i bought it for 1.5mil when i sold it i sold it for 2mil making 500k profite + had it for a good time, But when i bought my woodviller i bought it for 500k and had 2 sold it for less than 100k!

But one thing I Love about this game thow When ur selling an Item you b*tch about getting undercutted! But when your trying to buy an item you b*tch about the item beening over price'd Simply you can't win!(includeing myself @bitching)

But Saying this simply I think above post i Think SE needs to Lower the Price of Npc purchased Items!

NPC's need to lower their sale prices?! WHAT?!

You're crazy!

If you think the economy is bad now, lets lower the price of Ground Wasabi sold by NPC's and watch the price of sushi literally DROP. Depending on the item, the price is usually around break even prices when compared to skilling up. People are not selling things like Gigant Sushi for a profit, they do it for skillups and the chance of getting HQ versions. I have Veteran cooking and Fishing, the money is in the HQ's. Lowering NPC sell prices will just cause the AH prices to drop even more. Compare the cost of materials for Sushi's, you'll see. No matter what the NPC material price is, to a degree people will still sell those items for close to break even price. If you want to make a profit, break away from the crowd with LV60 crafts. NQ is skillup, HQ is profit. That's how this economy has been for years.

NPC prices dont need to be lowered! And the price to sell back to NPCs doesn't need to be increased!

whats wrong with you people? seriously that isn't the "easy button" to fix any economy.

that's why they constantly change the prices of new things (muffins, crab sushi, ect.) so that you cant simply sit next to a NPC and synth away and make ridiculous amounts of gil.

If you're selling something for 40k, chances are you can afford to lose out 1-2k on it from others who undercut, and even if you can't, then, wait! Eventually when the undercutter's supply runs out, yours will sell. That's exactly what people are saying....either list it at full price and be patient, or undercut to get your money faster, in which case you're essentially losing one thing to gain another- there's nothing unfair about it.

I'm a returning player with a new account and don't have a ton of cash. I need money to keep going. I'd rather have 20k now than 30k in a week. If that bothers you, oh well, you'll be 10k richer than me in the end, but at least I can buy new gear and keep playing. And it isn't like this stuff doesn't go both ways....people jack up the price of things, too. How many times have I saved up for something, only to find it's been jacked up 3k and that I need to constantly watch the AH because the prices fluctuate between normal and inflated 3 times a day?

That's how it works, it's normal, there's nothing wrong with it. People can sell stuff for however much they want, and if they're undercutting to sell faster, that's like any other shop/economy in the world. If someone farms something for 3 hours and thinks it's worth 10k, and someone else farms the same thing for 3 hours and thinks it's worth 80k, regardless of how much other people are selling it for...people are allowed to put whatever value they want on their items and time. For some people, losing out 10k to sell something super-fast is way more valuable than the extra money- and it was THEIR time they spent farming, so who are you to tell them what they can or can't sell it for? Basically, you're telling people to screw themselves over so you don't get screwed over.

Anyway, there's nothing to be pissed about, because if you sell stuff cheaper but then also get to BUY stuff cheaper from other undercutters, it evens out anyways. And if not, oh well, this is just a game after all. You're not losing your life savings, here. Let people have fun. :/

PS: Obviously, I'm not talking about Gil Sellers in my equation, but regular players.

This isn't so much a comment on how to "fix" or help the economy, but simply an observation...

My girlfriend is a bonecrafter (100+3) and managed to synth Lamian Kaman +1. She took the ~1M profit made from it and spent it to try and make a profit HQing more gear. Except she NQ'd things like Cursed Mitts, Scorpion Harness, etc. and lost most, if not all, of the profit she made.

I'm quite surprised that things have really changed so much since I've started, when Scorpion Harness was actually more expensive than the materials used to make it. At least then crafters were able to make a profit even when they failed to HQ the item they wanted for money.

I don't intend to complain about the deflation, nor claim that I prefer inflation... I simply intend to deal with whatever happens. It just seems less appealing to be a crafter nowadays than it did back in the "old days".

I think it's a problem with end game, right?

The problem starts to occur when having 100 crafting is considered an end-game achievement. It's now End in itself, and not a Means of generating gil to reach that End. People are "buying" the 100 skill in order to complete their character.

Crafting is now seen as a status symbol by a lot of people. An "end-game" task. The assumption is made that getting to 100 crafting is going to cost you something in net loss -- not make you money. How much it's going to cost you depends on what percentage of your investment you can get back, but it's going to be less than what you put in.

If the sale price of an item slips from 90% the combined material cost, down to 85%, they just shrug and accept it because they're already assuming the 100 skill is something that is going to need to be "bought" anyway. It's just going to cost 5% more now, which can be easily absorbed.

If did your research, you would see that Remora is one of the more EXPENSIVE servers.

Secondly, I highly doubt that half the server left because of deflation. If anything, half the server left because that place is a cess pool, myself included.

The OP is an idiot, who clearly doesn't understand simple economics. Get the sand out of your vagina, and get creative. Fish not working out? Find something else? I find the only noobs who complain about under cutters, are the same idiots that have a one dimensional approach to farming/making gil... .and then you have the balls to call under cutters greedy. I'd point out the irony, but someone else already has. The OP has gone on to say other absurd things, like how half the ffxi pop went to another game. Look, stupidity might be a great way for you to stumble through life, but you really should keep your stupidity off the internet. I'm not sure how you could possibly know the reasons behind why people left, but I would imagine that person of such intellectual integrity, such as yourself, you will have some kind of evidence to back it up. Your nonsense logic might work with your moron friends, but to those of us with an I.Q. above room temperature a bit more than angsty stupidity is required.

Same here! I am now back to my original home, Alexander.