NIN TANK

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2010-09-08
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NIN TANK
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 Garuda.Tyfoon
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By Garuda.Tyfoon 2009-06-07 19:28:47
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how does one tank as a ninja. I simply don't know

This post made speech recognition
 Bahamut.Bojack
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By Bahamut.Bojack 2009-06-07 20:11:43
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Provoke, knowing how to count, and ninjutsu does wonders.

Having someone to TA you also helps.
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 Asura.Ludoggy
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-06-07 20:14:14
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DONT GET HIT!!!!1!111!!!one!!!
Evasion gear and being able to hold hate and stuff >.>
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 Ifrit.Thunderz
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By Ifrit.Thunderz 2009-06-07 20:21:20
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in a exp pt

eva gear

and some enm+ gear

tons of ninja tools

blind, slow, para, poison,

elemental wheel

voke, voke, voke

dont get hit

and THF to ta or /thf is nice

also you will not be able to hold hate after some point
 Ramuh.Mrdeeds
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By Ramuh.Mrdeeds 2009-06-07 20:25:05
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It all depends on what level range, pre 55 you will want to use ninja tools, and elemental wheel mainly to grab hate and vokes. Post 55 when you hit aht urghan areas you really want to be more of a DD to hold hate, use sushi and as long as you can do decent damage you can most likely hold hate. I wouldn't suggest full timing a hauby, but if you do good damage you shouldn't have a problem holding hate.
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 Ifrit.Thunderz
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By Ifrit.Thunderz 2009-06-07 20:26:57
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oh yeah macro in DD gear for WS when you get blade jin good hate boost
 Sylph.Lalo
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By Sylph.Lalo 2009-06-07 20:30:34
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Tyfoon said:
how does one tank as a ninja. I simply don't know

This post made speech recognition


Well one suggestion would be to invite a nin to a exp pt and watch him/her tank.

*Ninja edit!*

There are many different ways to tank as nin so there's no right or wrong way, unless the mob is not facing you.
 Cerberus.Geldric
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By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-06-07 20:59:49
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Are these *** really saying use Eva gear?
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 Asura.Malekith
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By Asura.Malekith 2009-06-07 21:00:59
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NIN's tank same as any job... piss off the mob and hold its attention so it doesn't go rapeface on everyone.

Main thing is to stack enmity gear where you can (high-breath mantle at lower levels is a huge help as does sattva ring if you have it), keep shadows up because taking damage will cause you to lose hate, and lastly spam your NIN spells (Kurayami (blind), hojo (slow) and jubaku (para) are your friends.

After all the above... when in doubt, get a THF in pt and get TA'd.
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 Garuda.Goldo
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By Garuda.Goldo 2009-06-07 21:01:33
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Geldric said:
Are these *** really saying use Eva gear?


You use evasion gear to evade tanking the mob!
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 Ifrit.Thunderz
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By Ifrit.Thunderz 2009-06-07 21:02:18
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Geldric said:
Are these *** really saying use Eva gear?


loL?
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-06-07 21:04:50
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psh you /drk!!! Oh and I'm totally serious nothing gets and keeps hate like a nin/drk if you give them a rdm and a brd.
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 Ifrit.Thunderz
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By Ifrit.Thunderz 2009-06-07 21:11:45
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Dasva said:
psh you /drk!!! Oh and I'm totally serious nothing gets and keeps hate like a nin/drk if you give them a rdm and a brd.


yeah on omega ive seen it work wonders

O.o
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-06-07 21:14:03
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Thunderz said:
Dasva said:
psh you /drk!!! Oh and I'm totally serious nothing gets and keeps hate like a nin/drk if you give them a rdm and a brd.


yeah on omega ive seen it work wonders

O.o

Yeah its even more insane on omega cause of the lamo hate reset. nin/drk just has to spammed jas and stun and usually has hate back lol
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 Kujata.Checo
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By Kujata.Checo 2009-06-07 21:15:45
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yup if you really want to be tricky and effective,

NIN/DRK it out, refresh and haste is a must,

Stun-->Bind-->Sleep--(posion if you have time)

And you will hold hate like a champ

You can kite like a champ also, if your Fast boots are in effect.

Enm+ gear ftw, but dont sacrafice too much haste for it.
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 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-06-07 21:17:24
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Also using 2 and making the mob run between them is pretty awesome too
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 Kujata.Checo
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By Kujata.Checo 2009-06-07 21:20:18
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thats when you might want to get tricky and uber it out with some rdm/nin tanks. hmmMmm
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 Ifrit.Thunderz
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By Ifrit.Thunderz 2009-06-07 21:21:41
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I had a war/nin tank ultima from 100% to 60% when the NIn/drk d/c once it was funny as hell

weird thing is he did a awesome job
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 08:08:30
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Thunderz said:
Geldric said:
Are these *** really saying use Eva gear?


loL?


The only thing an evasion nin evades is having hate.
 Unicorn.Excesspain
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By Unicorn.Excesspain 2009-06-08 08:15:05
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Frobeus said:
Thunderz said:
Geldric said:
Are these *** really saying use Eva gear?


loL?


The only thing an evasion nin evades is having hate.

QFT

A NIN can only tank with a THF or TAing DD.
 Siren.Corrin
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By Siren.Corrin 2009-06-08 08:24:44
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When I lvled ninja I found the best way to hold hate was to gear for DD along with some +enmity gear. And I mean gear for DD as in I full timed O kotes and Hauby. To me personally, it seemed that no matter how much evasion gear I put on, the mob would still tear thro my shadows. And even with -25 evasion, I didnt notice that big a difference, except I actually did damage and held hate :)
 Kujata.Malicfayt
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By Kujata.Malicfayt 2009-06-08 08:36:36
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Best way to hold hate as ninja is through your DoT and your Ni enfeebles. Ninja is high maint... Haste, erase's ect. ect. A thief makes your job alot easier. Avoid Evasion gear altogether unless its indirectly on a piece of gear your going to be using anyways. Iike.. EMP hairpin or w/e. ya know? I tanked with Hauby on, till i got something better. If you got haste and enough haste gear who cares, evasion gear is useless unless your soloing. If you can count up to 4 your not going to get hit (well you wont very often).
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 08:37:22
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Excesspain said:
Frobeus said:
Thunderz said:
Geldric said:
Are these *** really saying use Eva gear?


loL?


The only thing an evasion nin evades is having hate.

QFT

A NIN can only tank with a THF or TAing DD.


FALSE!

But this depends entirely on what you want the nin to do. An extremely well geared nin who doesn't take any shortcuts gear or spell wise can be very effective without a thf or /thf DD.

Will they be able to hold hate off an idiot DD tossing WS's in the first 10% of the mobs hp? no, but neither can a pld sans sent.

Will they be able to hold the mobs attention the majority of the fight and keep it off the mages? for sure

A few tricks for Nin's to tank well even in burn pt's. Once the pt gets going time your WS's so that you lead off the fight with Voke > Jitsu > WS.
Opening a fight with a strong WS and other melee saving theirs for a bit will help a ton. Macro in enm gear for the few hate producing tools you have. Lrn to count guud. Nothing loses hate faster than taking a ton of damage. Macro in damage -% for when your shadows are down, you will take less damage and require less cure bombing thus helping keep hate.

Make sure you have a brd. March + Elegy makes a Nin's world go round. w/o those things (epc w/o elegy) your job will be much much much more difficult.

Nin is a very gear dependent job. The more time and effort you put in, getting top tier stuff the more effictive you will be in xp (more so than most jobs). Heavy DD gear for WS's, Strong DD and Acc gear for tp, ENM gear for hate, Damage -% gear for when shadows are down.
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 Carbuncle.Zanno
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By Carbuncle.Zanno 2009-06-08 09:00:51
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Ludoggy said:
DONT GET HIT!!!!1!111!!!one!!!
Evasion gear and being able to hold hate and stuff >.>


Fail^

Keeping hate with evasion gear setup is just plain fail.
 Remora.Deezell
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By Remora.Deezell 2009-06-08 09:11:44
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nin can tank just fine..... it just takes alot more skill, gear, and money than pld.... therefore u get more shitty nins than plds and ppl think nin cant tank worth a ***
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 Garuda.Hypnotizd
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By Garuda.Hypnotizd 2009-06-08 09:58:01
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I'm looking at a lot of posters here who are talking like they are experts on the subject and have NIN37 only. Now you might have an alternate character you brought to NIN75, but NIN1-37 is a hell of a lot different than NIN37-75.

Deezell said:
nin can tank just fine..... it just takes alot more skill, gear, and money than pld.... therefore u get more shitty nins than plds and ppl think nin cant tank worth a ***


The most basic gear setup you can get for NIN is straight evasion gear. Eat dorado sushi while you can to land your katanas and for extra hate, but load up in evasion.

Buy ENMITY+ gear to macro in for provoke, and after NIN40 and before you get to the reflecting Colibri your main source of hate will be from Ninjutsu debuffs and spamming the elemental wheel. Do not go cheap and make sure you have Blind/Slow/Paralyze tools. Poison is one that is not so much important.

A NIN who's shadows go down before recasts are up is a MP sink and unless you have a RDM + BRD party with infinate MP you'll start to feel it quite quickly. Always make sure you party with some form of Haste.

When I was leveling NIN my favorite party setup was RDM BRD NIN THF DD DD. Especially past Lv.60 when THF gets Assassin and there is no more setting up for SATA.

No matter what you do, no mater how much enmity gear you have, no matter how many Ninjutsu spells you land, if a DD wants to take hate they will. There is nothing you can do except tell them to keep their e-peen in their pants.

Edit:

Other than what I've mentioned above, it all comes down to counting your shadows and timing your recasts. When you see a colibi "readies pecking flurry" you can safely start casting Utsusemi: Ichi without worry of being interrupted. Little things like this you'll learn with practice.
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-06-08 13:16:00
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I'm a PLD main, so I'll state what I did for leveling my NIN sub. By no means is this the best way about it; nor are anyone else's opinions, no matter what they say >_>

-Cast your shadows early, and if you can, cast Utsu before your last shadow disappears. Post-37, keep in mind that Utsusemi: Ni overwrites Utsusemi: Ichi, but not the other way around.

-EXP with a "co-tank" (ideally, a 2nd NIN or a WAR/NIN with Utsusemi and Provoke, but basically anyone with Provoke) that you can alternate hate with: Assign a "1st voke". Tank 1 provokes off of the puller. Once their last shadow disappears, Tank 2 provokes, giving Tank 1 a chance to cast Utsusemi. Once Tank 2's last shadow disappears and/or Tank 1 is finished casting Utsusemi, Tank 1 provokes again, and the cycle repeats.

-From what I've heard, Elemental Ninjutsu: Ni is MUCH better than Ichi. If you want to quest for/buy the scrolls for Ichi, by all means go ahead, but it's not as effective as it's Ni counterpart in terms of damage. As for your Enfeebling Ninjutsu, they're effective in helping keep hate, but I've never really needed them pre-37. And if you're in a party, your RDM should already be enfeebling. :x

-If you like, you can level your Throwing skill and add in RAcc/RAtt equips for shuriken, but optimally you don't want to waste gil with Shuriken. If you DO have gil to spare, Shuriken are the best DPS throwing item out there, but no one has really proven that they've kept hate just by throwing stuff at a mob. :(

-ARMOR--I went for the Evasion gear route, since you don't get much Enmity gear at earlier levels. DD gear is also nice, but think about it:
Cumulative Enmity Loss = 1800 x Damage Taken / Target Max HP
In other words, you lose enmity each time you are hit. If you EVADE a hit, then you don't lose enmity. NIN already has an A- in Evasion, and stacking evasion will only make it better. Also, there's more EVASION GEAR out there than DD at earlier levels:
Bone Harness +1 set
Beetle Harness +1 set
Federation Gi
Kingdom Trousers
Traveler's/Nomad's Mantles
Empress/Emperor Hairpin
Dodge Earrings
Spirit Torque
(I HATE HOW NIN'S CAN'T EQUIP BATTLE GLOVES D;)

The rest I just filled in with Accuracy and Attack / STR/DEX equips, which I macro'd in especially for WSes (STR/DEX modifiers for Blade: Retsu and Jin, the two WSes you'll use the most I THINK; correct me if I'm wrong, please!):
Royal Footman's Gloves
Windurstian Tekko/Kyahan
Phlegethon's Trousers
Spike Necklace
---POST 37---
Ochimusha's/Ochiudo's Kotes
Jujitsu Gi
Scorpion Harness

Also, at later levels you definitely need to stack Haste. Haste lowers your casting time for Utsusemi: Ichi/Ni, which is an enormous help, more so than stackign Evasion or Attack, in the case of tanking as NIN:
Fuma/Sarutobi Kyahan
Walahra Turban
Dusk Gloves
Swift Belt

As for WEAPONS, ideally you put the HIGHER DPS IN YOUR MAIN WEAPON SLOT and your LOWER DPS IN YOUR SUBWEAPON SLOT.
Fukuro--Dual Wielding these helps with your WSes, seeing as the modifiers for the most effective WSes are STR and DEX.
Nikkariaoe is also an amazing weapon that... well, hopefully works at the right times while you're casting Utsusemi. OH, and for more Spell Int. Rate down, get a Willpower Torque for cheap--Macro it in when you cast Utsu, or replace it with a Spirit Torque at 38.

My lists are by no means complete, the items are just what I could think of off the top of my head.
 Pandemonium.Isiolia
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By Pandemonium.Isiolia 2009-06-08 13:22:32
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NIN holds hate best with damage. Evasion gear in mid/high level XP or merits is a waste of time since it just reduces your damage output.
There are situations where an evasion setup is the way to go. XP is not one of those situations.

Ni wheel is great damage in the 40s and a little into the 50s. Ninjitsu enfeebles, eh, don't actually generate all that much hate as you get higher in level, relatively speaking.

It is a challenge for a bit, since katana damage doesn't really start to pick up until you have better weapons, Jin, etc in the lower 60s...and doesn't really shine until you can do very high speed setups at endgame levels.
Colibri are hard to tank in general, but especially so for NIN. Lose food constantly, lose TP, get shadows wiped, and they're squishy for others. They're not bad if you're bouncing 'em, but trying to be the sole tank, they can be difficult.

Better way to have shadows up? Being properly supported. As mentioned, Haste, Elegy, maybe March...that sort of stuff makes a -huge- difference. Successful blink tanking, as with most any setup, is a party effort, not something you get simply by inviting a NIN.
 Asura.Ludoggy
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-06-08 13:27:38
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So what happens when you keep getting hit and cant pull up anymore shadows?
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By Fairy.Xxnumbertwoxx 2009-06-08 13:28:20
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Ludoggy said:
So what happens when you keep getting hit and cant pull up anymore shadows?


Yeah, I'm obviously no ninja expert, but I thought evasion was pretty important for nin...
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