Is Martial Bhuj Worth It

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2010-09-08
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Is Martial Bhuj worth it
 Hades.Hiryo
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By Hades.Hiryo 2009-11-22 13:41:21
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Basically what the title says.

My warrior is currently level 69, and I'm wondering if i should get a MB or a Berzerkers axe, as I've had horrible experience's with trying to Aug a weapon that's out the question.


If anyone has parsed the two that would be really helpful, save my buying them both and checking myself..

H.
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2009-11-22 13:49:32
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IMO MB is more of an endgame axe to be paired with Steel Cyclone on certain NMs. For levelling you would probably be better off with Berserker's and switch to Perdu/Byakko's/Erlking's when you get the chance.
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 Titan.Buddah
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By Titan.Buddah 2009-11-22 13:57:07
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Yeah its pretty much what Altar said MB is mainly End Game so if you want to save id say go with ex, and later on get elkring its great and you can usually get pretty lucky and if not byakko's is easy to obtain perdu takes a little bit more work.
 Hades.Hiryo
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By Hades.Hiryo 2009-11-22 13:57:13
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Alright.
 Caitsith.Lerond
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By Caitsith.Lerond 2009-12-07 16:22:47
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You might get better ws's with Martial Bhuj if your still missing a few pieces of equips but after you get your things like byakko's Haidate and some heca then your Raging Rushs with Berserker's / Perdu will come out higher than steel cyclones from your Martial Bhuj.
 Fairy.Molok
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By Fairy.Molok 2009-12-09 05:54:26
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I found Martial Bhuj to be a very effective weapon in events like Dynamis with /sam subjob and some other "minor" situations...you can pretty much spam steel cyclone and do very good damage.

I bought MB when i had pretty much nothing else better to spend on,thats it of course. °_°
 Midgardsormr.Sammitch
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By Midgardsormr.Sammitch 2009-12-09 15:06:56
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Hades.Hiryo said:
Is Martial Bhuj worth it
Yes, it is the best axe that money can buy.

That said, if you get very lucky on Erlking's or bust your butt in Assault to get a Perdu Voulge maybe you'll develop a preference for one or the other, but IMO those 3 would be in the top-tier GAXE category.
 Cerberus.Eanae
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By Cerberus.Eanae 2009-12-11 00:02:09
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Martial Bhuj is better then Perdu Voulge in a lot of situations. Especially when paired with King's Justice. Martial Bhuj is essentially the Hagun of Great Axes, and King's Justice tp modifier is damage varries on TP just like Sam WS's do.
 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-11 00:05:23
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Kind of surprising info considering I hardly ever see anyone with them. Is the damage difference between the top 3 not as drastic?
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-12-11 00:24:31
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Cerberus.Eanae said:
Martial Bhuj is better then Perdu Voulge in a lot of situations. Especially when paired with King's Justice. Martial Bhuj is essentially the Hagun of Great Axes, and King's Justice tp modifier is damage varries on TP just like Sam WS's do.

I'll have to disagree quite strongly here.

Hagun augments SAM WSs hugely because they're single hit. Increased fTP is a property of the first hit of a given weaponskill only, and

Tachi Gekko: increase in damage from Hagun (martial effect) = 18.8% damage (assuming WS gorget is used), fTP 1.6625 => 1.975.

King's Justice: increase in damage from Martial Bhuj = 8.1% damage (assuming WS gorget is used), total fTP 3.1 => 3.35.

Furthermore, WAR derives a lot more damage from the TP phase of their damage than SAM does, which is another reason why Hagun excels so much for Samurai: so little of their damage comes from TP damage that sacrificing more barely hurts them. It hurts WAR.

-10atk, -5acc, -8dmg:

-10atk = ~-2% DoT/WS damage, less when Berserk is up etc.
-5acc = ~-2.75% DoT and WS frequency, moreso if you are giving up Haste in the form of Blitz Ring and such.
-8dmg = ~-8.5% DoT and -~5.3% WS damage (assuming KJ).

Martial Bhuj DoT is 87.2% as strong as Perdu Voulge's (not counting Haste gains from equip). Martial Bhuj WS damage over time is 97.6% that of Perdu Voulge's (again not counting Haste WS frequency increase).

So Perdu Voulge ends up beating it in WS damage over time too.

I would argue the top 3 nonrelic Great Axes are Rune Chopper, Fortitude Axe and Perdu Voulge (Erlking's Kheten if you can maintain full haste with the same food yada yada with capped accuracy).

EDIT: Added maff
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 Cerberus.Eanae
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By Cerberus.Eanae 2009-12-11 00:24:38
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Perdu vs Martial is very marginal. The math behind it is somewhere on BG but I can't find it at the moment. :(
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-12-11 00:33:39
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Added a bit of math into original post, I'm tired as hell though cause my flatmates have been keeping me up with their partying, but it should be decently okayish.
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2009-12-11 00:37:13
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The math is much appreciated. I've been trying to decide whether to buy one. Would it still be better for SC?
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-12-11 00:53:37
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SC is 1.6 => 1.85 fTP, so a 15.6% increase. Just adapting the math above,

Martial Bhuj DoT is 87.2% as strong as Perdu Voulge's (not counting Haste gains from equip). Martial Bhuj WS damage over time is 104.3% that of Perdu Voulge's (again not counting Haste WS frequency increase) when using Steel Cyclone exclusively.

Bearing in mind I'm lazy and using same figures as above. The DMG difference would be even less significant during SC, so you're probably looking at +6~7% WS damage or so. Oh, the Attack would do slightly less too.

In any situation you'll be using Steel Cyclone a lot, your WS damage ratio will be far higher than your DoT damage ratio, and Meditate also favours Martial Bhuj (minor but there). Sneak Attack does too in a way.

So yeah, it would be better if you're not TP burning something and instead are using Steel Cyclone. This especially applies if you're doing the whole WS => build TP not on the mob => WS deal.
 Ifrit.Kungfuhustle
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By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-11 00:53:57
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no
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 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2009-12-28 23:43:03
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Quote:
-10atk = ~-2% DoT/WS damage, less when Berserk is up etc.
-5acc = ~-2.75% DoT and WS frequency, moreso if you are giving up Haste in the form of Blitz Ring and such.
-8dmg = ~-8.5% DoT and -~5.3% WS damage (assuming KJ).

Not saying your math is wrong but I would like to know how you figure the DoT % attack adds (mostly so I can tweak my gear myself better by understanding attcks value)

Isn't 1 acc .5 % hitrate thereby 2.5%?

Same question for the damage how do you calculate it's usefullness.
 Remora.Abriel
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By Remora.Abriel 2009-12-29 02:34:46
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I'm pretty sure the 2.75% increase he's talking about is the total increase you get from adding ~2.5% hit rate when under-cap (too lazy to do the maths right now, but it looks about right).
 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2009-12-29 03:14:02
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ya i see what you are saying going from 90% to 92.5% hitrate is 2.77 increase roughly so that must be what he means, the rest i really wanna know though cause I love number crunching.
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By Remora.Abriel 2009-12-29 03:34:14
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the boost from atk and dmg isn't that hard to calculate (it just takes more steps). using generic values is normally easiest when comparing weapons, but knowing what they should be around is a different matter, lol.

this site works pretty good for base stats; http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/i/kinematicf/FFXI/StatCalculator/
and you just add your basic, generic gear values to that along with atk values from skill +/- traits. for atk boost it's easy, you just calculate the difference. for the boost from dmg it's a bit more complicated 'cause you have to factor in pDif also. after you got the basic values for those down you have factor in any possible loss from misses, and <que angelic music> there you have your estimated total increases \o/

edit: basically any atk/dmg boosts are going to be estimations, but you can get close enough to the true increase values in most instances.

edit2: sorry I can't help with equations atm, my brain is totally fried from researching PC components for my new rig <.>

edit3!: I forgot to mention you'll want to calculate TP and WS increases separately, because of the affects of acc (95% acc for 1-hit*, 95%** for first hit of multi's then estimated value for subsequent hits)

* - research has shown that 1-hit WSs get a VERY large acc bonus if not capped acc
** - more recent research has shown that the first hit of multi-hit WSs gets a similar bonus to 1-hit WSs
 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2009-12-29 20:26:33
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Ok tell me if I'm getting this right so for example 410 attack to 400 attack for using MB rather than Perdu results in roughly a 2.5% attack lose is that to say 2.5% DoT and WS decrease? I think it was more complex than that depending on whether your attack is over or under the mobs defense.

The damage thing I still dont get much 96/88 = 9% more base damage on Perdu over MB. SO how than are the 8.5% on DoT and 5.3% on KJ calculated?
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-29 20:32:56
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Remora.Abriel said:
* - research has shown that 1-hit WSs get a VERY large acc bonus if not capped acc
** - more recent research has shown that the first hit of multi-hit WSs gets a similar bonus to 1-hit WSs
Btw where is said research and were all wss tested? Cause recently I did my own little test of 2 ws (kinda limited since I don't got many 75 jobs thfs triple attack kinda throws things off)

And I parse alot lower wsacc then my melee acc on one and about the same on the other. And this wasn't super small sample sizes either.
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-12-29 20:35:08
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It's just an approximation; you're right in thinking it's more complex in reality.

The base D increase is modelled because the equation looks as followed;

(D + fSTR) * Pdif

So the right hand bracket is additive, so you just compare the Ds + the fSTRs. The reason it's less on WS is that there's the new WSC term (weaponskill mod);

(D + fSTR + WSC) * Pdif * fTP

So the increase in D will be smaller there.
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2009-12-29 20:37:52
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From what I myself have eyeballed its especially obvious when (leveling a new job in low levels and your acc is no where near caped but more like 60-80 acc) that it is very rare to miss a 1 hit WS compared to a normal hit or if its a multi hit you can see from tp return the first hit almost always lands in the cause of something like combo or fast blade. Not sayin that means its true but im fairly sure its right.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-29 20:40:15
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Maybe it's different at lower acc amounts. Yeah just looked it up now. 1 trial hit/miss was 320/958 while flat blade was 2/26 lol. unfortunately hard for me to solo VT/ITs blood tanking on rdm and well without blind pots to kill my acc my rdm kept too close to capped without on Ts to really be able to tell much
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By Carbuncle.Corrderio 2009-12-29 21:27:55
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Your overall best great axe is Perdu, but for zergs and some other endgame events MB will be your best friend.
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By Remora.Abriel 2009-12-29 23:54:01
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oh god, I'm not going to look up the links, lol. there's some testing conclusions on BG along with a few links I think, there should be a few threads on it. you'll have to dig around a bit because it's probably well buried by now with all the BSing that's been going on in there ever since people heard about FFXIV planning (the nubs aren't getting hazed like they use to and are now running free to spread nonsence and garbage at an unchecked rate), lol.
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