Marmorkrebs V25

Hi all, I've been trying Marmorkrebs V25 for a bit now and this is the only V25 Tier2 that my PUGs are still having issues with. Our group consists of Run, Rdm, Cor, Geo, Me on BLM, and a Sch. We seem to run in a bit of a wall around 35% most times and other times higher if our tank gets 1 shotted by the Sundering move. When we start, I Vidohunir and Impact (seems to wear off in about 90 seconds for a ton of mp) and we are doing a 4 step with the scholar doing the first SC > Last Stand > and then Dimidation and bursting thunder. Scholar usually bursts for 10k to get the DOT on and we have Run Rayke on first chain but it seems that this guy just wont go down as quick as the others. I'm starting off with Cumulative Thundaja and Bursting primarily that and Thunder 6 and Thunder 5 and repeat. With only refresh 3, i feel like Im still having issues with MP occasionally even with Aspir IIIing the adds. Is it worth it to sacrifice damage and swap to the AF3 body? Also, should we have our cor random deal after first rayke wears and then wild card when that wears off so we have a good 4+ min of Rayke? We are currently just using the one Rayke and then waiting 5min for the next round to come up. I assume Geo and Sch dont magic burst outside of Rayke to nerf blm damage. Any tips would be appreciated.

You should absolutely be keeping Rayke/Gambit up as often as possible, to include using RD to reset them.

I would wait until 40% to pop Subtle Sorcery, Bolster, and then use WC to hope for resets on these abilities.

Make sure the COR is using Thunder Shot as often as they can.

We were using Herc Slash -> Imma Water -> Last Stand -> Dimidiation for a 4-step. This can be done infinite times because the SCH is only using 1 stratagem per, which is nice. It helps if the RUN can get their AM3 up and maintain that whenever possible, to keep their TP coming in fast.

COR do mage rolls, then give himself and the RUN a Samurai Roll to help keep the skillchains flowing.

Make sure you're keeping your -ja stacks up as often as possible, and if you have +2/+3 empy pants, make sure they're on for the best possible duration with this. Can also add in a nice Burn to lower his INT more, especially if you have the JSE for this.

I think depending on the gear levels on yourself, the SCH, and the GEO, it is most likely beneficial for everyone to be nuking, but if they don't have good gearsets they can just let you do all the damage.

Before you push below 40, make sure the rolls and all other buffs are in place (Embrava, regen, etc.) you really don't want to stop skillchaining while you have Bolster, SS, etc. going. Make sure the RUN is hit by WC so they can get Rayke/Gambit back. After WC you have another RD for another chance at Rayke/Gambit. This should be MORE than enough to take it down.

i see ppl shouting for RDM for this in Asura not sure if it matters

i see ppl shouting for RDM for this in Asura not sure if it matters

we dropped our GEO for a RNG and did Leaden -> Trueflight bursting thunder non-stop. SCH starts off with Regen / buffs / etc.. then bursts a helix on first SC and burst with the BLM for the rest of the time. RDM handles buffs, debuffs and the add, if the RUN goes down (they shouldn't) then land Gravity II and kite the crab while continuing the SC damage.

Stop using Run for Marm if you want to win. Use a Aegis PLD and just keep your SCs going with MB. Fragmentation > Last Stand > Chant du Cygne

If your tank does not panacea the debuffs off before the next move, then they will get 1 shotted.

Biggest thing that made a difference for us was learning that Marmokrebs will not dispel songs. Defensive songs on the RUN will prevent any 1-shotting. We went from having a hard time to winning on the 1st or 2nd attempt with BRD.

Also, Rayke is massive for the MB NMs... especially on V25. You should seek to reset Rayke as much as possible i.e. RUN only uses Rayke before the first Random Deal to guarantee reset and make sure to reset it with both RDs and WC if possible.

Run gambit/rayke is pretty important for magic NM's in general, but totally doable if you drop rdm for the rune, just go with the run picking up adds if you're worried about baby crabs.

I like Saevel's suggestion of RNG in lieu of GEO. Also with no bubble to worry about and RUN out of the skillchain equation, you can gravity him and kite him a bit like a mini Gigelorum. SCH can also save strats for Ebullience. Unlike Gig, him getting a move off here and there will occur, but will reduce the frequency significantly. Make sure to keep the kite path rather tight to stay within ~21yalms for RNG/COR/SCH/BLM.

Though I don't think we did it in this particular fight, using both PLD+RUN was a huge game changer for us in V25s. No RDM/BRD add management needed. As others have said, Rayke/Gambit are very important so I'd put the RUN on the NM and the PLD on the adds. PLD can heal/rebuff the RUN as needed.

I tanked with no kiting on RUN and as long as I used Panaceas liberally, there was never any danger to me whatsoever. I only died once and it was because I got hit by (I think) Rending Deluge while re-applying Valiance. I was literally midcast on Valiance so my Vallation had just been canceled, and my default JA midcast set at the time was my full enmity+ set without much DT. Just very bad luck on the timing.

I've since changed my Vallation/Valiance set to use more DT in case of that unlucky timing happening again. I don't think the lack of DT or the lack of Vallation/Valiance alone was the problem, it was both combined that got me killed.

I am still a strong believer that even at v25, most of the NMs aren't locked into a singular setup to work. Get your best people on their best jobs in a setup that conceptually works for the fight, and then perfect what you want to do.

Got a kickass RNG and BLM in your group? Try Saevel's way. Overachieving PLD? Try out the RUN+PLD plus a lot of meds, and drop the WHM. RDM who's a billionaire by day, caped crusader at night? Ride him to glory.

Just adding this into the mix because often I've seen over-analysis lead to failures in highly skilled and experienced groups when they begin to doubt themselves and seek "a fix" when really its just a series of bad timing/coincidences that caused a loss, not a bad plan or setup.

we did pld geo cor sch blm rdm for are win 1/1

The simplest way to get this win, no reason to make it harder than it needs to be.

we ended up using run brd sch blm rdm cor for this, for scherzo on the RUN, and still manage to kill it with 5 min left even without GEO, dps check on this is very easy, just like a lot of other odyssey fight, if you survive you win.

Nothing ground breaking but took out Rask and Marmokrebs 25 last night with RUN, BLM, COR, GEO, BRD, RDM for both runs. Will mostly just talk Krebs since he's harder and strat is pretty much the exact same minus elements. I'll post this in that random Marmokrebs topic thread as well.

RUN: Standard rune things, Sulpor x3 runes, gambit when able, Rayke for initial helix and hopefully the next. Probably used more panaceas than the Curio Moogle has!

SCH: Tabula'd at start, applied the Regens, Embravas, and all the other good good. While he was finishing his setup, COR and RUN started SCs to get the ball rolling and BLM building up -ajas. SCH called the Random Deals/Wildcard for strat replenishment when needed. In our two losses, rolled a 5 WC. In our win, neither a 5 nor 6 were rolled. Bliz > Hydro > Last Stand > Dimidiation. Allow for SCH to get in a strong Helix II before putting up the nuke wall on him. Ours hit 14-20k reliably for max DoT.

BLM: Nuked thunder, applied Impact when able with ES and Manawell. Additionally, to help the group out, I knew I would have add hate when they popped. At 77 and 42 (If it was up) BLM pops Mana Wall and runs add about 20 from the RDM just to prevent needless damage to the group. Don't forget to Thundaja in Empy pants for extended damage + windows. Used Subtle Sorcery during initial Tabula window after rayke dropped.

RDM: Busy bee, Refresh/Haste the masses, crowd control with bind/gravity. On first add, ours put up non sabo bind since we were burning to 40 hard and RD isnt always a sure thing but can Sabo if you want. Either way, when second add popped, BLM took away, RDM bound, gravd and then Stymie'd sleep on the first add that's about to unbind. This helped a lot to keep the two adds similar in time of when debuffs would wear. RDM threw the kitchen sink of debuffs at MB and bursted when able.

COR: Wizard's and Samurai roll, Thunder Shot when able before nukes. Would connect third step with Last stand to lvl 3 light. When strats were down, COR would last stand open for Dimidiation. Since we don't use discord, this sometimes got goofed up when SCH would start SCs but wasn't a YUGE issue. If you have a more established COR/RUN combo, do the 4 step of Leaden > Dimi > Last Stand > Dimi while strats are down.

BRD: HM, INT Etude x2, Ballad x2 on masses. Scherzo, Minne, and Water Carol II the tank. Threnody on MB and adds and go to sleep. Had brd SV/CC at start but held onto nitro until 1 min on SV to have SV songs full run.

Took 4 attempts overall. First two just had some growing pains of adding 2 PUGs and buddy nuking wrong mob XD. We preferred BRD over GEO just due to the variance of buffs, capping haste, and keeping the RUN alive better with Scherzo. Anyway, this was our story, definitely the hardest of the T2s.

This 100%.

Leaden > Savage > Last Stand > CDC.

Definitely do NOT need Rayke for this at all.

Another option if you want super easy mode is to drop the RDM (or BRD) and take both PLD and RUN. RUN tanks Marm, PLD tanks adds. Or vice versa. Just make sure the add tank never pulls hate on the main NM or the adds will run wild. If the add tank is good with enmity management, both adds will go straight for them and the BLM doesn't have to move an inch.

You lose a little haste/refresh/debuff but they aren't needed to win this fight, not by a long shot.

Run is fine but you must have bard songs to keep tank alive. Bard songs don't get dispel'd from crab (cor rolls either). A good rdm can bind the add everytime unless macc down. After bind they can immunobreak sleep on them. They can easily be handled like this so they aren't an issue. You can do frag > last stand > dimi and when strats are down leaden > reso > last stand > dimi. Try to keep most resets for rayke under 40% thats when big race starts. Also make sure u have elemental seal impact for the sub 40 burn phase.

It seemed pretty easy to tank on RUN without songs, so I'm not sure what people were going on about. I didn't find it necessary to spam panaceas either.

The problem with RUN in that fight is Valiance/Vallation can be dispelled and if it's down and you get Sunder Snipped you die (the bg is wrong, it's not 60% of your max hp but it's definitely magic dmg). Sulpor alone will not save you. Scherzo mitigates that but then you waste a slot on BRD. PLD just makes the whole thing a breeze because Aegis. It's the easiest option, though obviously RUN can tank it too if they can maintain their Valiance/Vallation without a badly timed dispel. It gets spammy with the dispel towards the end of the fight.

No, they cannot. SE updated them to be non-dispellable some years ago. The Fast cast effect from Inspiration can be dispelled though.

EDIT: Hmmmm. You know I started looking up a reference for this one... But I couldn't find anything. Then I checked some recent logs and.. Bane of tartarus dispelled my Vallation. SO... I'm gonna retract that one. Not the first time I've proved myself wrong. I swear I recall them making val non-dispellable... but was it actually just runes? Hmmmm. Unless Bane is just special *** dispell or something.

I mean normal dispels don't remove food do they? I know some TP moves do.

You need 3 runes up to make wards non-dispellable, so you either didn't or Bane of Tartarus is just special.

Oh hey, I found it.
SO.. they certainly did say it... And while there's a few ways to interpret that.. it does say ward abilities.

So that should actually cover even more things than I thought. Wards include:
Vallation
Pflug
Valiance
Liement
Battuta

So.. this being the case. How the hell did I lose vallation to Bane? Do you actually specifically have to have three runes up to make the wards non-dispellable? Is bane a special dispell? Is this a bug? Or if bane is special... is Rending Deluge special as well? I know it's already weird in that it doesn't dispel songs/rolls.

I think I'm gonna do a bit of testing on the whole vallation and dispel thing....

EDIT: Also this whole thing is really poorly documented. I couldn't find anything about it on any of the wikis.

Well, I'm pretty sure I had three up. I didn't use gambit/rayke/lunge etc, and I put runes up maybe ~2 minutes before Bane.I'm leaning towards Bane is *** at the moment.