If You Use A DPS Meter Don't Post The Logs

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If you use a DPS meter don't post the logs
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By Mattelot 2020-09-12 08:54:21
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Sylph.Shirak said: »
Assumptions about parsing:

1) Always assume someone is parsing.

2) Never post a parse where you are #1 unless specifically asked.

3) Never trust a parse posted by someone else.

4) Only use personal parses to improve your own game.

This is good stuff.

I would probably trust one that my LS posted because they have no reason to post a skewed one but then again, my LS doesn't have an ego problem and don't post parses anyway.
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By Shichishito 2020-09-12 13:28:31
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Asura.Vienner said: »
(Is there a thing like a cure parse? I would love that)
probably not cause healing is for sissies and there are no commonly agreed ways to measure and compare e-vajajays.
if you want to participate you'll have to cast your cures on undead i'm afraid.
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 Bahamut.Svedin
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By Bahamut.Svedin 2020-09-12 13:57:23
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Bahamut.Negan said: »
Guns don't kill ppl. PARSES kill ppl!

CANCEL PARSING!

Made me think of this old gem lol.

YouTube Video Placeholder
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By Shichishito 2020-09-12 14:17:23
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Bahamut.Svedin said: »
Bahamut.Negan said: »
Guns don't kill ppl. PARSES kill ppl!

CANCEL PARSING!

Made me think of this old gem lol.

YouTube Video Placeholder

made me think of this old gem. some might find it offensive, nsfw.
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 Asura.Reidden
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By Asura.Reidden 2020-09-12 14:45:52
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I love posting me some parses against Fiasko, love showing him he cant be 40% dps allll the timeeeeeee. woojoo
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By Carbuncle.Razziel 2020-09-12 18:36:10
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I guess it's a cultural thing or my upbringing. No point in trying to sway those getting outraged over caring about how others might feel. It's a small ask that went on 6 pages. Do I personally care? No... But do I understand how it can rub others the wrong way? Sure.

I don't go by any preferred pronoun but when asked to refer to someone to their desired pronoun do I refuse, refer to science and go against a small thing that would make them comfortable, and go by the sex in their birth certificate? No... cause it's a small ask and I'm not an a-hole.

Not everyone is gonna get along. I get people have different social norms. There's gonna be some guy that can't contain their raging *** to share the parse cause they were top DEEPS. Luckily I don't have to deal with that crap cause I don't ever do anything with randos.
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 Asura.Warusha
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By Asura.Warusha 2020-09-12 18:37:07
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I've definitely used parsing in a negative and positive way. It's been great for me to ask someone how they're playing so much more effectively than I am... but I've also used it to belittle people that are just looking to have fun. Lots of great perspectives in here. I definitely resonate most closely to the perspective that it's just math. Sometimes I know the values are skewed if I'm out of range of another member in say dynamis, and then I feel less inclined to point out the data set. I think the greatest use of a parse is in seeing the approximate accuracy values of the party to quickly determine which buffs we need to utilize or how the DDs can better make the best of what's available. Unfortunately, for so many of us, it can be hard to quickly change how we're using our gear when there's so much available. Having someone to keep you accountable for your contribution, in a long standing group dynamic, is healthy. How we communicate that information is a challenge worthy of some introspection.
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 Carbuncle.Razziel
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By Carbuncle.Razziel 2020-09-12 18:49:50
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Radguy is bad at reading social cues

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 Phoenix.Oyama
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By Phoenix.Oyama 2020-09-12 19:08:47
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When I first came back to the game, when Seekers was newish, I was politely excused from a party for not doing enough damage, and was shown a parse. I figured I wouldn't be winning or anything but thought I was at least carrying my weight, until they posted the accuracy stats, and I had something like a 60-70% hit rate. Can't argue with that number. I didn't take it personally, and it eventually led to me leaving vanilla behind as I got better.
Just don't be a ***.
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By Jetackuu 2020-09-12 19:15:03
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Phoenix.Oyama said: »
When I first came back to the game, when Seekers was newish, I was politely excused from a party for not doing enough damage, and was shown a parse. I figured I wouldn't be winning or anything but thought I was at least carrying my weight, until they posted the accuracy stats, and I had something like a 60-70% hit rate. Can't argue with that number. I didn't take it personally, and it eventually led to me leaving vanilla behind as I got better.
Just don't be a ***.
^
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 Fenrir.Pirinolon
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By Fenrir.Pirinolon 2020-09-15 13:04:43
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if they "get their *** out" by saying 'yall suck' or something then absolutely 100% agree. but just posting a parse that they are at the top of, and then saying nothing else, isn't that, and socially-challenged ffxi'ers might struggle with that, but that doesn't mean don't post the parse.[/quote]


thats actually the same, just without words
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By Fenrir.Pirinolon 2020-09-15 13:07:34
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Sylph.Shirak said: »
Assumptions about parsing:

1) Always assume someone is parsing.

2) Never post a parse where you are #1 unless specifically asked.

3) Never trust a parse posted by someone else.

4) Only use personal parses to improve your own game.


This, at least in PUGs/random content.
Static events like D-Dyna its another story
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By Fenrir.Pirinolon 2020-09-15 13:11:32
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I remember this guy /yelling for a top-tier COR for ambu, wouldn't take anything else.

He spent a few hours /yelling untill he logged off without doing any, while the "lesser CORs" did plenty of N and D Ambus.
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By Jetackuu 2020-09-15 13:15:36
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Fenrir.Pirinolon said: »
thats actually the same, just without words
Yet it isn't, maybe you should refer to the *socially challenged" portion.
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By Mattelot 2020-09-15 13:26:48
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Fenrir.Pirinolon said: »
I remember this guy /yelling for a top-tier COR for ambu, wouldn't take anything else.

He spent a few hours /yelling untill he logged off without doing any, while the "lesser CORs" did plenty of N and D Ambus.

I've seen something like that before. It was funny.

While that is probably not how all of them are, people that are like that just do it because they put themselves on a false pedestal. I don't see people like that too much anymore, not like I did when 75 was cap.
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By Onimaru 2020-09-15 17:01:17
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I'm just surprised someone was so sensitive they'd make a whole thread about how parsing might be rude. I mainly use it for myself by putting up the on screen scoreboard and gauge myself from the parses my buddies display on party chat just to poke fun at each other and have some friendly brag here and there. It has always been a way to be competitive If you wished or just to see how you are faring and improve yourself if you have to. There aren't any dumb "unwritten" rules about parsing lol as far as I'm concerned.


At the end I think this is an issue of maturity. This is something I would expect to see in the 2008-09 era and not now. I think we got some growing up to do.
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By soralin 2020-09-15 17:05:56
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Onimaru said: »
I'm just surprised someone was so sensitive they'd make a whole thread about how parsing might be rude. I mainly use it for myself by putting up the on screen scoreboard and gauge myself from the parses my buddies display on party chat just to poke fun at each other and have some friendly brag here and there.

OP pretty clearly stated:

RadialArcana said: »
Don't post it (if you use it) in random groups, it's not a good thing and you will annoy people.

You're in friend party you have the friendly context that posting the DPS logs is acceptable is not the same as a random PUG.

Don't post them in random PUG groups unless you state you are parsing stuff and ask ahead of time.

And even then you should send it by tell unless multiple people all ask for it as a group.

"Hey guys, Im gonna be parsing, who wants to see the parse after?" Is fine.

"Hey guys here's the parse no one said was gonna happen! Whats that, you didn't really try hard because its a random PUG and we're just farming cards in Omen? Oh well! <PARSE VOMIT>" is not.

Simple stuff, basic etiquette.
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2020-09-15 17:34:34
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Showing a parse to illustrate something such as:
-PlayerA had only 35% accuracy. They need to wear more acc next run.
-Everyone had between 40 and 70% accuracy. We need another accuracy buff.
-WS average was XXXXX, is frailty up?
is productive and useful if the group is condusive to it. If you have a conclusion to draw from a parse, you plan to do the fight again, and your group is chill, it's absolutely helpful.

If anywhere in your head you're thinking 'I want people to see how much damage I did', get over yourself. You're turning a situation nobody else thought of as a competition into one after the fact just to stroke your own ego.
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 Shiva.Arislan
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By Shiva.Arislan 2020-09-15 17:54:29
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Scoreboard and Flippantry Parse can both print all reports to any channel, including /tell, so you can easily notify only the leader or offending party of any issues.

There's no valid reason to ever post the full report in /p unless somebody asks for it, or you're in one of those groups where it's a post-kill ritual (gross).

If you still insist on hanging everybody's wangs out in public, at least ask if anybody minds first.
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 Sylph.Excalin
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By Sylph.Excalin 2020-09-15 18:19:03
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This whole thread could just be "Don't be an ***"...

...but honestly sometimes you just need to make the point and let them get their tears out of the way.
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By Xhyllos 2020-09-15 19:13:09
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I have mixed feelings about parses.

As others have mentioned, it can be helpful to identify problems, such as accuracy that can be improved and such.

But more often than not, it is merely used as a ***-size competition, when in reality, the "Total damage" stat is flawed, because it is highly contextual.

For exemple, in a CP party:
Is player X experiencing a slight lag that makes him draw his weapon a second later than Player Y? -- Player Y has an advantage of doing a couple melee rounds more than X on every mob.
Did X, at any point during CP, missed a song or a cor buff, or stand just outside a geo bubble?

There are just too many contextual factors that determine DPS to make such a stat relevant in any way.

The only way it could truly be used as an accurate way to compare DPS is for 2 player to have the exact same context and all that changes is their own gear/playstyle. Context includes but not limited to:
- Same job/sub, as not every job plays the same role. I don't think any 2 jobs can truly be compared for their DPS (A debuffing dancer likely isn't ever going to match a DRK's DPS on any parse)
- Exact same buffs applied.
- Both start at 3000TP, and then you start running a parse on a timer while the players are already engaged to a mob.
- The mob has infinite HP to make sure there is no wasted time swapping mob.
- Include self-skillchain damage to the total damage calculated. (SAM's strength is in it's skillchains, something he cannot do with 4 DDs on a same mob, and thus is at a disadvantage there.)
- Following that last point, only one player on a mob for the duration of the parse.
- Making sure the player being parsed stays alive, without them ever losing hate.
- The mob doesn't use *** moves like paralyze, petrify, amnesia, invincible, stoneskin, attack down, or any debuff, really. Basically, the mob should be a straw-dummy that can only normal attack the player (for return TP gain I suppose).

This is a minimum, and only then does such a stat like total damage has any real meaningful "scientific" value. Otherwise, it's really worthless for anything other than comparing large disparities in damage, like 2 DDs being in a CP party, and while 1 did 1 million points of damage, the other DD did 100k, then, as said before, it is useful to identify a problem. My point here is just to say that "winning the parse" means absolutely nothing. And I say that as someone who has "won" the parse before.


.... I spent way too much time thinking about, and writing this. -_-
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By soralin 2020-09-16 00:52:24
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
Showing a parse to illustrate something such as:
-PlayerA had only 35% accuracy. They need to wear more acc next run.
-Everyone had between 40 and 70% accuracy. We need another accuracy buff.
-WS average was XXXXX, is frailty up?
is productive and useful if the group is condusive to it. If you have a conclusion to draw from a parse, you plan to do the fight again, and your group is chill, it's absolutely helpful.

If anywhere in your head you're thinking 'I want people to see how much damage I did', get over yourself. You're turning a situation nobody else thought of as a competition into one after the fact just to stroke your own ego.

For that first situation Id still keep that to a /tell

For cases where everyone was low, I dunno if the entire parse is even necessary, can just say "Our accuracy was kinda low across the board, I think we need Torpor" or "Our accuracy was nearly capped across the board but dmg slow, I think we need Frailty"

No need to pop out the whole Parse paste into party chat for that point, so the original point still pretty much stands.
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By Mattelot 2020-09-16 06:28:19
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soralin said: »
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Showing a parse to illustrate something such as:
-PlayerA had only 35% accuracy. They need to wear more acc next run.
-Everyone had between 40 and 70% accuracy. We need another accuracy buff.
-WS average was XXXXX, is frailty up?
is productive and useful if the group is condusive to it. If you have a conclusion to draw from a parse, you plan to do the fight again, and your group is chill, it's absolutely helpful.

If anywhere in your head you're thinking 'I want people to see how much damage I did', get over yourself. You're turning a situation nobody else thought of as a competition into one after the fact just to stroke your own ego.

For that first situation Id still keep that to a /tell

For cases where everyone was low, I dunno if the entire parse is even necessary, can just say "Our accuracy was kinda low across the board, I think we need Torpor" or "Our accuracy was nearly capped across the board but dmg slow, I think we need Frailty"

No need to pop out the whole Parse paste into party chat for that point, so the original point still pretty much stands.

That's correct. There are still lots of people trying to gear themselves up in this game. They know they're not top notch, why publicize it and embarrass them?

And what you also said is exactly what I do. Rather than highlight someone, I ask for torpor or madrigal, etc. It gives the group what they need without trying to shame somebody even if indirectly.

Xhyllos said: »
.... I spent way too much time thinking about, and writing this. -_-

But you were not wrong. There are many ways to deliberately skew a parse. When you think you're done seeing all the 3rd party addons people use, you still find yourself surprised and in some cases, it's your addons spiking numbers, not you. It's usually always the ego folk who do that.
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By Prong 2020-09-16 07:17:43
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I like to see parse at end of longer events or larger NMs, just to make sure I'm properly contributing and if not, may be something not equipping OR may want to ask the person who is consistently stomping everyone to see their gear sets....they may just know something you don't know. /shrug

But, some events, you can't take too seriously, too. Like Dyna D, your WS equipment is like, 4th or 5th most important thing in the parse outcome. Your ability to quickly target non-PLD/THF mobs before the other DD is probably #1 factor, if you are on a job with massive one hit/two hit WSDMG capability (like SAM/DRK/COR) because even if the mob has 1% health, you can still pull off a 60k Fudo/Leaden...probably #2 factor. Are the support players in your party on top of buffs OR how well do you survive (dying constantly means weakness and no buffs)...etc, etc. So, IMO, testing your actual sets/ability usually is better on longer, single mob NM fights. Not Ambu or the like.
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By Bismarck.Laurelli 2020-09-16 07:56:16
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I read the OP and laughed at people on both sides.

On one side, you gotta love the people who hang around with those weaker than them just so they can look good. These are the players who always brag about how everything "just melts" to them. But if they ever joined a group who does W3 dynamis, they would parse behind the brd.

But on the flip side, the people who are still gearing up can be so sensitive. Not everyone can be in the top 3. And if you know you weren't putting 110% effort and it was just a chill party, who cares where you parsed.

Everyone needs to just relax and stop being so wierd. So many people on this game act like little children constantly needing validation. It's just a game. Validation comes from accomplishments irl.
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By Mattelot 2020-09-16 08:04:56
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Bismarck.Laurelli said: »
I read the OP and laughed at people on both sides.

On one side, you gotta love the people who hang around with those weaker than them just so they can look good. These are the players who always brag about how everything "just melts" to them. But if they ever joined a group who does W3 dynamis, they would parse behind the brd.

But on the flip side, the people who are still gearing up can be so sensitive. Not everyone can be in the top 3. And if you know you weren't putting 110% effort and it was just a chill party, who cares where you parsed.

Everyone needs to just relax and stop being so wierd. So many people on this game act like little children constantly needing validation. It's just a game. Validation comes from accomplishments irl.

To be fair, to some people, this is their "irl". They're awesome inside video games but outside, that's another story. As Tom Ripley once said, "it's better to be a fake somebody than a real nobody".
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2020-09-16 10:14:10
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I probably should've said 'referencing' instead of 'showing', I agree that you don't need the entire parse. But, it's still useful to have context snippets that may improve performance as long as it's done in a friendly manner and the goal is to make the group better for everyone.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-09-16 11:31:21
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Context matters.

Parse is simply information, how you use it is what's important. Easy to be malicious instead of helpful.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2020-09-16 11:33:58
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By Mattelot 2020-09-16 11:41:26
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Context matters.

Parse is simply information, how you use it is what's important. Easy to be malicious instead of helpful.

Correct, it's a tool. How you use the tool is what matters. Guns are not bad but you can do bad things with a gun.
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