Superwarps - Questionable.

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Superwarps - Questionable.
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2019-12-28 15:40:14
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I noticed a while ago, that people were spawning next to waypoints facing the wrong direction. That part's probably pretty harmless, but I took a look at superwarps today after a couple people who'd been reporting being banned or suspended had it in their list of tools.

At a glance:
-Menus are not done correctly for waypoints or escha warps, you can easily verify this by checking your silt or kinetic units. They aren't consumed as they would be when using the same warp legitimately.

-Heading isn't set for any same-zone warps.

-The data used for the warp request is stored as a float, resulting in rounding errors making it not exactly match what the legit client would be sending. This may not matter, but it would be very easy to detect as the client will always request the exact same coordinates. It should be stored in a manner that preserves identical value.

tldr; i don't really think superwarps is what is causing people to be banned, but it's got a whole lot of questionable behavior and if you're the cautious type you may want to give a second thought before using it
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By 2019-12-28 16:06:31
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By Draylo 2019-12-28 16:08:04
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So, not that I'm disagreeing with what you're doing, why did you decide to give a warning when earlier when I was trying to do the same thing you basically said people don't deserve any. People were posting testimonials on why they were banned/suspended and others were trying to figure out maybe if it was an add-on or just bots.

People I knew were hit didn't use this add-on but were using the usual bot programs to do CP.
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2019-12-28 16:08:35
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Caerda said: »
Most the people I know were hit from using speed increase from Tako.
This isn't a 'what got people banned' thread, it's a comment on superwarps.

Draylo said: »
So, not that I'm disagreeing with what you're doing, why did you decide to give a warning when earlier when I was trying to do the same thing you basically said people don't deserve any. People were posting testimonials on why they were banned/suspended and others were trying to figure out maybe if it was an add-on or just bots.

People I knew were hit didn't use this add-on but were using the usual bot programs to do CP.
This isn't a 'what got people banned' thread, it's a comment on superwarps.

Though, if the server is not considering you to have successfully done the menus for your waypoint, it may be seen as POS warping on the back end.

These are the kinds of things that 99% of the playerbase would have 0 chance of noticing on their own, and I made the thread because far too many will blindly trust any lua from a random github their equally clueless friends recommended(or even worse, google the name of a lua and pull the first result that matches then trust that).
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By Pantafernando 2019-12-29 05:11:22
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
I made the thread because far too many will blindly trust any lua from a random github their equally clueless friends recommended(or even worse, google the name of a lua and pull the first result that matches then trust that).

Just to corroborate with this, a short ago i downloaded an addon that recognize any sphere item in inv, check crystals and proceed with synth, allowing one char to afk in a spot while other is farming the trash.

Thing is, i noticed he was crafting too fast. At first i naively thought it was a sphere item characteristic so i just leave it crafting for some session. Then i notice the same author had an insta craft addon, so i noticed maybe he just ported that feature to sphere item addon... despite if it can be noticed by server or no, the thing is that feat is easily recognized by players around. Even if it doesnt trigger any checks, it could still be reported and any GM that would check it would readily conclude guilty.

Fixed this by simple changing the craft part to simple inputing lastsynth once conditions are met.
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By SimonSes 2019-12-29 05:18:07
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Damn I really liked this addon :/ It saves so much time when 4boxing :/
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By Shichishito 2019-12-29 05:51:35
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anyone downloading a addon thats not included with windower is aware that its super sketchy, there is no need to warn anyone. otherwise it would be included or at least hidden behind the konami code.

if they wanted to permit usage of that addon there are probably other checks they could run like certain KIs that are necessary to visit certain zones/areas of that zone, maybe travel time.
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By Korgull 2019-12-29 07:08:45
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Superwarp changed my life, but now it's the time to be more cautious.
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By trinironnie 2019-12-29 08:18:57
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One thing I realized if you have tunes following you, and you type a warp to warp everyone the chrs will run off a bit then teleport which looks weird as hell.
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2019-12-29 08:40:18
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trinironnie said: »
One thing I realized if you have tunes following you, and you type a warp to warp everyone the chrs will run off a bit then teleport which looks weird as hell.
Ugh.. “Toons” .. anyway, I just halt their /follow before warping around. There should be a /follow stop command of some sort but for the life of me I can’t find it? So I have a macro that sends-all /heal twice lol that way I don’t get the jarring rubber-banded looking warp lol
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By trinironnie 2019-12-29 08:57:22
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Valefor.Yandaime said: »
trinironnie said: »
One thing I realized if you have tunes following you, and you type a warp to warp everyone the chrs will run off a bit then teleport which looks weird as hell.
Ugh.. “Toons” .. anyway, I just halt their /follow before warping around. There should be a /follow stop command of some sort but for the life of me I can’t find it? So I have a macro that sends-all /heal twice lol that way I don’t get the jarring rubber-banded looking warp lol
lmao MY BAD toon* thxs for the advice just made one!
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By Pantafernando 2019-12-29 09:00:57
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Valefor.Yandaime said: »
trinironnie said: »
One thing I realized if you have tunes following you, and you type a warp to warp everyone the chrs will run off a bit then teleport which looks weird as hell.
Ugh.. “Toons” .. anyway, I just halt their /follow before warping around. There should be a /follow stop command of some sort but for the life of me I can’t find it? So I have a macro that sends-all /heal twice lol that way I don’t get the jarring rubber-banded looking warp lol

Another option is force blink?
 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2019-12-29 10:50:24
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So... Anyone got the alternative? Could really use a command line warping tool.
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2019-12-29 17:25:06
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Shichishito said: »
anyone downloading a addon thats not included with windower is aware that its super sketchy, there is no need to warn anyone. otherwise it would be included or at least hidden behind the konami code.
This isn't true, there are a bunch of addons we'd gladly accept into the launcher that don't do anything sketchy but the author never submitted to us.
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By Draylo 2019-12-29 17:40:40
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It just isn't safe to use anything sketchy if they are on a ban purge at the moment.
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By Felgarr 2019-12-29 20:00:25
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Asura.Chiaia said: »
Shichishito said: »
anyone downloading a addon thats not included with windower is aware that its super sketchy, there is no need to warn anyone. otherwise it would be included or at least hidden behind the konami code.
This isn't true, there are a bunch of addons we'd gladly accept into the launcher that don't do anything sketchy but the author never submitted to us.

Healbot is one that I wish folks would submit under the launcher.
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2019-12-29 20:08:48
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Felgarr said: »
Asura.Chiaia said: »
Shichishito said: »
anyone downloading a addon thats not included with windower is aware that its super sketchy, there is no need to warn anyone. otherwise it would be included or at least hidden behind the konami code.
This isn't true, there are a bunch of addons we'd gladly accept into the launcher that don't do anything sketchy but the author never submitted to us.

Healbot is one that I wish folks would submit under the launcher.
Would not be accepted. Yes there are questionable things on the launcher but most if not all are from close to the start of v4 and with who is left active on the team it's pretty much been decided stuff like that is a no go. No plans to remove anything that already made it into the launcher though.
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By Felgarr 2019-12-29 22:01:54
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Asura.Chiaia said: »
Felgarr said: »
Asura.Chiaia said: »
Shichishito said: »
anyone downloading a addon thats not included with windower is aware that its super sketchy, there is no need to warn anyone. otherwise it would be included or at least hidden behind the konami code.
This isn't true, there are a bunch of addons we'd gladly accept into the launcher that don't do anything sketchy but the author never submitted to us.

Healbot is one that I wish folks would submit under the launcher.
Would not be accepted. Yes there are questionable things on the launcher but most if not all are from close to the start of v4 and with who is left active on the team it's pretty much been decided stuff like that is a no go. No plans to remove anything that already made it into the launcher though.

This seems like an about-face from your initial post seemingly welcoming requests to add things to the launcher? Can I ask what about healbot prompted your response? (Just curious. I'm more of a cure please user: https://github.com/DanielHazzard/Cure-Please/releases )
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2019-12-29 22:30:05
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It's a botting script. I was just letting you know it wouldn't be accepted because of this. We had a similar discussion about a VW addon like a month ago.

Addons such as the various VW addons, Domain Invasion, and AutoMB would also not be accepted. Obviously the majority of the Devs left know they are out there(we get tons of questions in the unofficial addon channel on discord) it's just not something that's going to be accepted into the official repo.

v5 will be interesting though because it handles multi repo support. There will be the official repo of course but I already realize one major repo will probably pop up with addons not accepted for these same reasons.

Things such as Porter Packer(stores/grabs gear from the Porter Moogles) and NagMeNot(Hides/Answers No to the message when job changing and zoning out of MH). Would have no problem being added as long as the code checks out.

Something like superwarps would probably be debated since it can bypass needing to actually have X HP/Waypoint. Now if it actually checked that you had it and was fixed(issues listed above) I doubt there would be any issue being accepted but I could be wrong.

Anyway if your the author of any addon you can always submit a pull request and it will be reviewed either way.
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By Shichishito 2019-12-29 23:25:40
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Asura.Chiaia said: »
Things such as Porter Packer(stores/grabs gear from the Porter Moogles) and NagMeNot(Hides/Answers No to the message when job changing and zoning out of MH). Would have no problem being added as long as the code checks out.
are those all of the addons you'd like to add to the launcher? if not i'd suggest to make a list.

Asura.Chiaia said: »
Something like superwarps would probably be debated since it can bypass needing to actually have X HP/Waypoint. Now if it actually checked that you had it and was fixed(issues listed above) I doubt there would be any issue being accepted but I could be wrong.
imho its only that popular because of the enormous time safer building up another multibox/mule. whats left if you take that away?
type command for macros and send for multiboxers?
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By Korgull 2019-12-29 23:50:24
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I believe the Windower team is trying to avoid the average user getting banned.
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By Pantafernando 2019-12-30 01:49:39
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Or trying to avoid being blamed for distributing potential bots, dupes, exploits in game.
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 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2019-12-30 03:04:56
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Bots: The majority of us don't like them. The few that don't care still believe people should use them in places/ways that don't affect other users.

Dupes: Arcon already stated in the Pulse Cell dupe thread we'll report it to SE and the player base. Since we found a method that none of our accounts could be banned because of it. Not that any of us are doing said dupe but SE doesn't give ***if you white knight it and report said dupe you're going to be banned if you include account details. I don't think one active Dev had any stance different then submitting it to SE asap.
(Remember I'm pretty much the only active FFXI player left on the Dev team. So they give two shits on a new dupe method for self gain and I'm not stupid enough to do said dupe. Dupes are the fastest way to get an account banned even if SE hasn't been banning anyone in years. Some have active accounts just to test with since Project Darkstar doesn't behave like retail enough.)

Exploits: Are a bit weird. Most likely we would report them too but lets say gearswap. It allows you to WS when not engaged. I wasn't part of the team for quite a few years or even put my input as user back then but the general conscious was to keep allowing it because SE *** up not allowing(as an opinion) it.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2019-12-30 06:18:47
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My memory is that GearSwap's "allow WSs while unengaged" is more like a bug that was unfortunately discovered in the wild. By the time it was reported, it was clear that people weren't getting banned for it and Rangers viewed it as a major feature. People that WS without ever engaging are at risk, but if you are just getting around the engaging animation lock or WSing just after disengage then you should be basically undetectable.

If I had caught it before it went out, I might have enforced somewhat fuzzy rules to codify that behavior, but once it was in the wild some people liked it so much that it was obvious patching it would force them to look for a second party addon to mimic the unintended behavior. Maybe it was still worth forcing them to make an even more intentional choice, but I didn't.


Quite a few other unexpected GearSwap behaviors were patched as soon as they were noticed.
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2019-12-30 06:44:44
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How hard would it be to patch Superwarp to fix the Escha Warp thing, though? It'd be really nice to have a "safe" version for people to use that disables warping to HPs you don't have, too.

I can certainly live without using it in Escha since I don't really do that content much anymore, but on the large I could never play the game(as a multi-boxer) without Superwarp because 90% of my playtime would be spent alt tabbing and going through menus to get around.
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By Pantafernando 2019-12-30 07:46:57
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Maybe first thing to do is compare the outgoing packet when doing vanilla warps and compare with the addon packet being created/sent.
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-12-30 08:44:39
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*Cough* XIPivot *Cough*

https://github.com/Shirk/XIPivot

There are lots of really useful stuff people wrote, mostly for Ashita with a subset being released for Windower.

SE's made some very bad design decisions in the past and never bothered to revisit them. The community has since created work-around's for those decisions but the Windower devs would likely turn up their noses at them. Anchor is used in pretty much every high end group along with React. We have a JP member who frequently use's React to announce dangerous TP moves to the party / alliance.

Always wondered with Flippant never submitted Parse, it's so much better then scoreboard, almost Kparse level good.

https://github.com/flippant/parse
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By Asura.Akaden 2019-12-30 10:09:25
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I'm going to resub to investigate the issues. Some lovely folks on the windower discord have gotten some better data for the xyz positions and I'll look into adding heading into the packet.

Before I test the currency issues, I suspect that the issues are with same-zone teleports only. There is a setting to turn off same-zone teleports in the config file in the mean-time.

Shiva.Thorny said: »
tldr; i don't really think superwarps is what is causing people to be banned, but it's got a whole lot of questionable behavior and if you're the cautious type you may want to give a second thought before using it
I don't think it's getting people banned either, and I agree with you about thinking twice before using any addons. Superwarp is a convenience tool. It doesn't enable botting, but it does make it easier. I never intended the currency bug. I tested it on zoning teleports and it seemed to work at the time. The same-zone teleports was always a necessity, but I was worried about including it. Hopefully I can get the issues resolved and sleep easier :P
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2019-12-30 12:21:55
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Most of it is simple enough to fix. Treat the coordinates as 32 bit integers(16 bit for heading) instead of floats and you avoid any rounding errors. Obviously implement heading.

Same zone waypoints are screwy(and your waypoints in general are off) because the first 0x5B has all 4 bytes of option set in most cases and their meaning is not easily discerned. You're only setting the first 2 bytes, and to the wrong values(they are correct in second 0x5B, but first is much different). When using a same zone waypoint, the value you put in there means nothing and you're just requesting a warp with no accompanying menu. When using a different zone waypoint, I'm guessing it isn't critical to the zone accepting the later menu packet so it appears to function anyway.

I didn't check if other zone warps consume units, but that's certainly the reason same zone warps arent: the later 0x5C and 0x5B provide no information about which warp was used so it is provided in the first 0x5B which you are not properly filling out.
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