Final Fantasy VII

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Final Fantasy VII
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By Viciouss 2020-04-14 17:29:09
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I'm on the last battle, safe to say, this the best game SE has put out in decades. I'll have more to say when the credits roll.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-04-14 17:33:55
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Yeah its not a very high bar for square. (KH3 was a huge disappointment)

The battle balance is pretty terrible objectively. But that's absolutely no surprise at all lol. The chip > stagger > instant death is dull and too repetitive. Story (and all the behind the scenes stuff) is incredible though.

And they still didn't touch sector 1 2 3 and 4 You still get less than half of midgar in a game that was entirely based on midgar.
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By Asura.Veikur 2020-04-14 17:48:06
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Chip > Stagger > Kill has been the action RPG genres go to for a good while now. VII's is particularly bad about it, but they aren't the only ones doing this.
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By Viciouss 2020-04-14 18:15:24
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The concept of the combat system they want this game to have is solid. It reminds me a lot of Star Ocean 3, which had an amazing combat system. What puts that game's combat over this remake is the team's AI.

In Star Ocean, you could set your entire team's movesets and control how aggressive they were, from All Out Attack all the way down to Do Nothing when you weren't controlling them.

The problem this game has is there is no setting like that. You can only set shortcuts for you the player to use with each character. But as far as what your teammates are doing during battle, well, thats pretty much dependent on the AI performing well enough when you aren't in control. And it sucks. The only real thing you can count on the AI doing is guarding. Attacking? Not so much. Special abilities? Never. Building the ATB gauge in a game that depends on it? Maybe it will build up one bar. Two bars all on its own? Dream on.

This problem is magnified early in the game, I noticed it for real in the Coliseum in Wall Market. But that's also an instance where you don't have a full party. As the game goes on, we get some help. The Auto-Cure materia is a must. Other materias also help with the ATB gauge. But the AI never gets smarter. They never cast any spells on their own. They will never use any weapon abilities on their own.

Its something they need to work on for Part 2. Make the AI more independent and competent. Reduce all materia actions to one bar of ATB. (seriously, get Pray off of Aerith as fast as you can). This is really my only gripe with the game. Everything else is amazing.
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By Asura.Cicion 2020-04-14 22:02:59
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I dont have a lot of love for ff7 series in general but i really like and am enjoying my play through of this remake. About 3/4ths done my hard mode. All chars are pretty fun to play, esp tifa i find that starshower yo.

My small gripes are really make better team AI. Having to manage 3 chars atb commands can be daunting for some people, be nice if you could set a role and they would use stuff on there own. Unless they have haste on they build atb hella slow as well compared to a controlled char i find.

I generally do not care for the stagger mechanics they done in most games esp lol 13 series and so on. I dont't mind it in this game, mabey even enjoy it. My fav fights so far have been the rufus battle and soloing Bahamut. Mabey having limit you build up in fights carry over to the next idk why this isn't a thing.

Would of liked the old materia system where you master one then gain a second base materia. More magnify pls think theres only one in the whole game. Get more then 2 elemental and warding materia that way to. (Also make sure you do all the side quests on the hard mode 2nd time around don't screw that up like i did.)

Also upcasting elemental spells costs more then double the mp generally and the damage bonus is only +50% and rather weak i think since most upcasting in series just more then doubles the damage i believe. Not to mention the huge casting time on t3 spells thats you can get interrupted pretty easy with. While thats not a issue rly on normal mode come hard mode its not really worth it. Spamming the low level 1 spell for 4-5 mp is way more bang for your buck vs the 11-12mp t2 verion ect.

How thunder and fire hit and do damage is great. However wind and blizzard i have problems with. You cast said spell they hit the target do no damage then it needs to wait 1-2 secs for the 2nd hit to go off doing the spell damage. Far to often enemies and me as a player can just move away after the initial hit.
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By Ruaumoko 2020-04-15 00:28:10
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Viciouss said: »
The concept of the combat system they want this game to have is solid. It reminds me a lot of Star Ocean 3, which had an amazing combat system. What puts that game's combat over this remake is the team's AI.

In Star Ocean, you could set your entire team's movesets and control how aggressive they were, from All Out Attack all the way down to Do Nothing when you weren't controlling them.

The problem this game has is there is no setting like that. You can only set shortcuts for you the player to use with each character. But as far as what your teammates are doing during battle, well, thats pretty much dependent on the AI performing well enough when you aren't in control. And it sucks. The only real thing you can count on the AI doing is guarding. Attacking? Not so much. Special abilities? Never. Building the ATB gauge in a game that depends on it? Maybe it will build up one bar. Two bars all on its own? Dream on.

This problem is magnified early in the game, I noticed it for real in the Coliseum in Wall Market. But that's also an instance where you don't have a full party. As the game goes on, we get some help. The Auto-Cure materia is a must. Other materias also help with the ATB gauge. But the AI never gets smarter. They never cast any spells on their own. They will never use any weapon abilities on their own.

Its something they need to work on for Part 2. Make the AI more independent and competent. Reduce all materia actions to one bar of ATB. (seriously, get Pray off of Aerith as fast as you can). This is really my only gripe with the game. Everything else is amazing.
100% with you. The AI needs to be able to work with some freedom. Other games like Star Ocean did this years ago and it should not be tied to Materia.

Asura.Cicion said: »
Bahamut.
Hahahah. That fight was epic. I recorded my first loss to Bahamut and just decided to make a quick fun video of it. I can't be the only one who thought of this old meme when it wiped out my team.
YouTube Video Placeholder
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By Bahamut.Aquatic 2020-04-15 01:30:47
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Just finished it, here are my thoughts:

+The battle system: It honestly feels like a natural evolution to the turn based system we played in countless RPGs. I found myself inputting commands left and right in the middle of active chaos, it was amazing.

+The boss battles: Highlight of the game for me, honestly. One was quite funny in particular, with live commentary.

+The Materia system: It was kept conservative, much easier to manage, and extremely fun to experiment with. You could honestly set up roles such as "tank, healer, etc."

+The character scenes: I laughed, I teared up, I got mad(in a good way, as in engaged with the current emotional theme)

+The setting: You really do get a better sense of Midgar, its amazing to have these small towns act like the "cities" as you venture forth in the story.

-So much filler at times: Tifa said something akin to "Do we seriously have to do that again?"... and I felt that exact same way like "yeah? seriously? I agree..."

-Useless new characters: Two in particular, hi and bye. They seem like they are going to add to the story then poof and greatly add to the filler point I mentioned above.

-The controls and camera angles: This was a sore spot outside of battle. Im most games you can ease into a ladder climb from a run, for example. Not so much here.

Obviously not perfect, but it was awesome. I have a few minor gripes but those are personal and not really anything the game itself. I'd give it a solid B+. Best mainline FF name-sake game in a very long time.
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By Ruaumoko 2020-04-15 05:19:51
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Bahamut.Aquatic said: »
The character scenes: I laughed, I teared up, I got mad(in a good way, as in engaged with the current emotional theme)
I really like the way they went more into Barret's character. He's not just an angry loudmouth this time, sure he has his moments to remain on-form but you get a better sense of what he's like beneath it all. His determination to go back to Sector 7 and rescue all those he can is a great moment for him. Even he begins to question his actions towards the end of the game, we never saw that until the literal end of the original.

I also liked that we got to see Tifa's more fragile side. She usually puts on a brave front but her breakdown when the plate falls shows another side to her.

Finally... I liked that they explicitly show more than a few times in this first part alone that there is something wrong with Cloud. The original had 'crash' moments with him like in the Honeybee Inn and when he finds Jenova's remains in the Shinra building but it was done WAY better here. That interactive scene where he staggers towards Jenova while that ominous tune plays was frightening. Clip is below in a spoiler box, it's from the original but still. Might as well.

Quote:
-Useless new characters: Two in particular, hi and bye. They seem like they are going to add to the story then poof and greatly add to the filler point I mentioned above.
I get the feeling Roche is going to show up again. He is clearly mentally unstable and the fact that President Shinra tells Cloud that SOLDIER typically do not live long due to 'celluar degeneration' from their exposure to Jenova cells indicates that Roche's declining mental state is going to come up again; maybe even as a juxtaposition against Cloud.
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By Draylo 2020-04-15 08:42:47
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Wow, this game was literally perfect. Just finished and I was completely surprised at how well they honored the original and recreated everything with some slight adjustments. The combat was a lot of fun and intense. I just can't believe how good this game was and I'm excited to keep going. The scenes were so emotional, especially the ones most expected from the original. Literally every moment I was like oh I remember x thing from the original and then it appears in beautiful detail, just incredible.
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By Draylo 2020-04-15 08:49:00
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Ruaumoko said: »
Viciouss said: »
The concept of the combat system they want this game to have is solid. It reminds me a lot of Star Ocean 3, which had an amazing combat system. What puts that game's combat over this remake is the team's AI.

In Star Ocean, you could set your entire team's movesets and control how aggressive they were, from All Out Attack all the way down to Do Nothing when you weren't controlling them.

The problem this game has is there is no setting like that. You can only set shortcuts for you the player to use with each character. But as far as what your teammates are doing during battle, well, thats pretty much dependent on the AI performing well enough when you aren't in control. And it sucks. The only real thing you can count on the AI doing is guarding. Attacking? Not so much. Special abilities? Never. Building the ATB gauge in a game that depends on it? Maybe it will build up one bar. Two bars all on its own? Dream on.

This problem is magnified early in the game, I noticed it for real in the Coliseum in Wall Market. But that's also an instance where you don't have a full party. As the game goes on, we get some help. The Auto-Cure materia is a must. Other materias also help with the ATB gauge. But the AI never gets smarter. They never cast any spells on their own. They will never use any weapon abilities on their own.

Its something they need to work on for Part 2. Make the AI more independent and competent. Reduce all materia actions to one bar of ATB. (seriously, get Pray off of Aerith as fast as you can). This is really my only gripe with the game. Everything else is amazing.
100% with you. The AI needs to be able to work with some freedom. Other games like Star Ocean did this years ago and it should not be tied to Materia.

Asura.Cicion said: »
Bahamut.
Hahahah. That fight was epic. I recorded my first loss to Bahamut and just decided to make a quick fun video of it. I can't be the only one who thought of this old meme when it wiped out my team.
YouTube Video Placeholder

That part was intense for me, he killed everyone except Tifa and I used a limit break to finish him at like 400 HP lol before getting to use phoenix downs.

I would say the only thing I didn't like sometimes was the camera and when the game forced you to walk for no reason it seemed.
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By Phoenix.Thorbean 2020-04-15 09:09:48
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RE: slow AI ATB.
Control Tifa with ATB Assist, Skill Master, ATB Boost, ATB Stagger, Luck Up and Parry Materia with Purple pain built for HP, Speed and Crit Rate/Damage/SkillDMG. You crit like a champ, ATB fill speed is insane and you funnel ATB to the party as needed with ATB Assist.

AI Cloud Built for survival with Steadfast Block materia and counterstance. AI blocks all the time anyway and he stays in melee range so his fill rate is pretty good already but even better with an aggressive Tifa feeding more ATB.

Aerith, ATB ward makes everything better.


What settings does everyone use? (Bolded the most important for me)
Gameplay:
Cursor Position: Out of Battle > Remember
Cursor Position In Battle > Remember Nobody likes flicking through every menu to get to the same command you just put in.

Camera & Controls:
Camera Distance (Both) > 3 Better field of vision
Responsiveness > 5 3 too slow.
Lock-On Controls > Left and Right Directional Buttons Now you can spin your camera with the analogue stick without changing your target.
Combo Targeting > Free Allow switching target mid attack combo. Smoother combat flow between multiple enemies.
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By Bahamut.Aquatic 2020-04-15 13:02:08
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Quite possibly the most fleshed out character in the remake. Absolute monster in the battlefield, I hardly ever had him in my party in the original game but found myself having him as party lead on near every other battle.

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By Draylo 2020-04-15 13:26:12
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Yeahh same here, I never used or liked him much in the original but I loved his gameplay and character in the remake. Was a lot of fun shooing crap up with him, I can imagine Vincent will be fun too
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By Asura.Meliorah 2020-04-15 13:41:38
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Cloud, Barret and Cid were my party always in the original, as soon as I got him as a permanent cast in this game I made him party leader because he is a beast at pumping out raw damage.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-04-15 13:47:36
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OG you just picked the characters you like cosmetically because other than the limit breaks they're all identical. Racists much?
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By Draylo 2020-04-15 14:05:34
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I always had Yuffie, Cait Sith and Vincent lol. Everyone hated Cait Sith but he was one of my favorites for some reason.
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By Bahamut.Aquatic 2020-04-15 14:08:23
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Racists much?

I'd be racist against myself then.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas 2020-04-15 14:46:09
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Finished yesterday, and loved how we were able to revisit Midgard with such high fidelity artwork. I also fell in love with the arrangements.

Battle system was pretty solid to me. I can agree on the points of AI - building ATB for non-active characters was nonexistent unless you switched to them. Overall though, definitely a fresh take on classic ATB systems.

I enjoyed the rework of the materia system. Simple enough. Although I wish they allowed materia to reproduce - I wanted more elemental and magnify materias. I miss the multitude of elemental types though - I love having variety. I don't like that they slimmed down 9 from the original into 4.

I have two huge gripes with this game though.
One is the dementors - this screams bad writing to me, and personally I felt it wasn't done well. So jarring.

Two is the last two chapters. No spoilers, but it felt to me that the pacing just ramped from a normal, understandable flow to BOOM HERE'S THE ENDING AND THINGS GET CRAZY FOR NO REASON BECAUSE WE RAN OUT OF TIME DEVELOPING LULZ. I don't necessarily hate the ending due to the possibilities it opens, but it took me completely outside of Final Fantasy VII and made it feel like another game - both thematically and plot-wise.

Besides the last chapters, I loved this take of FFVII.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-04-15 15:30:29
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Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas said: »
One is the dementors - this screams bad writing to me, and personally I felt it wasn't done well. So jarring.

On this, when you look at it, it makes perfect sense after finishing the game.

FF7R is one alternate reality, among many. The "dementors" or furies or fate or whatever names you want to call them show up in this reality every time you (or someone...) diverge from the main games (the real? the main?) reality. They exist to remind you that you are changing the events of ff7 (or that the events must play out as they were intended (until you can break the cycle))

It's objectively dumb (in the game as a mechanic) but really cool as a theme.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas 2020-04-15 15:40:51
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Even when looking at it objectively, they felt like they didn't belong in the story to me. Sure it ties into the ending once it's explained what they are, and they make sense with how the plot was driven, but... it felt like the writers just jammed a square peg into a round hole.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-04-15 15:42:06
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They basically exist in every game you've ever played, they're just rarely given physical form and literally impede the characters.

Every time you can't just kick a door down, or someone dies and you can't phoenix down, or beat this guy before he can escape, that's them.
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By Pantafernando 2020-04-15 15:42:07
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What? Bahamut in the first part?

I dont even recall it playing a part in the story in original game.

He did on FFIX iirc.
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By Pantafernando 2020-04-15 15:42:55
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Where is the summon Assura?
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By Ruaumoko 2020-04-15 16:24:06
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Pantafernando said: »
What? Bahamut in the first part?

I dont even recall it playing a part in the story in original game.

He did on FFIX iirc.
Probably get Neo-Bahamut in part two and Bahamut-ZERO in part three. Still not gotten Ramuh, Odin, Kyjata, Hades or others yet either. Still plenty to come.
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By Phoenix.Thorbean 2020-04-15 16:26:18
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Whispers are just a device they can use to excuse the diversion from the original story to recreate some suspense and expand on popular dead characters. I'm not a fan of those either but they are a simple way of explaining changes to the story I guess.


Gameplay and visually overall the game is amazing. I'm on the fence with the story changes. Not so much the concept, but the delivery (hooded ghosties) as Mithlas said, looked jammed on top.
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By Draylo 2020-04-16 03:33:08
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I've had more time to think about it but honestly feel it will be ok. They will for sure deviate from the original story, but I feel they will continue as they did for this remake and tell the original story but with some changes. I doubt they will scrap everything from the original and do their own new story. It will probably just be something like Aerith survives
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By Ruaumoko 2020-04-16 05:18:33
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Draylo said: »
It will probably just be something like Aerith survives
I really hope not. I can see a massive backlash from the community it they pull that.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-04-16 05:38:26
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Pantafernando said: »
What? Bahamut in the first part?
It's a virtual simulation.
To put more content in the first game (which only takes part in Midgar) they artificially lengthtened its duration by adding "virtual reality" content through a SOLDIER simulator.
They can make you fight whatever they want there and since it's "virtual reality training" and not reality, it won't break the canon.
Neat excuse to justify stuff that wouldn't have made sense in Midgar (like Bahamut).


If you ask me I would've liked if they made the game longer by getting a bit further into the original story, instead of filling it up with end-game stuff like that.
To be honest the majority of the story-related additions are nice. There's a couple of things that feel useless or pointless, but overall it's nice.

Still the additional content like that VR simulator kinda... gets on my nerves, with mixed feelings.
On one hand I feel being trolled with cheap stuff on their end.
On the other hand I can understand them, they wanted to release the game like this and make it feel like it's a full game and not an incomplete one, so they had to put some additional content in it, lest people complain too much.



I dunno, I will unleash my final judgment on FF7Reboot in 1 year from now, once waters have cooled down for me and for everyone else.
Atm I'm really conflicted because I can absolutely see it's a very nice game and a high quality project about which I can objectively only criticize a very limited amount of secondary things.
But still it's not the way I would've done a FF7 Remake, it's not the way I wanted it to be, in so, so, so, so many ways.
So, dunno, I truly feel conflicted about it.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-04-16 05:43:22
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Ruaumoko said: »
Draylo said: »
It will probably just be something like Aerith survives
I really hope not. I can see a massive backlash from the community it they pull that.
I think they haven't made up their minds on which exact way to go for some things in the future, like Aerith for instance, but also Sephiroth and many others.

They ended the game with that plot twist to create a BOOOM reaction and see what happens in the community.
While pretty big, it's also pretty vague and there are so many ways they could handle that (Typical Nomura style, if you think about it).


My idea is that if they see the community will overall react in a positive way to those differences, then they gonna keep the story explode with very big differences (in this scenario, Aerith totally survives one way or another, imho).
If they see too much discontent, then they will tone it down and future episodes will be more fitting to the original story.

So yeah, I think they were just testing stuff with this game, and it will help them decide how to balance future changes/differences in the story.



I kinda hope they won't expand other parts of the game like they did with Midgar though, or we're gonna see the end of this game in 2045, i.e. never.
Won't it feel a bit strange to see this level of huge detail/addition for Midgar, but then the same not happening for every other equally relevant part of the game?
I dunno, adding stuff to Midgar was cool and welcome but doing it this much has been a dangerous gamble. Hope it will pay off in the end, heh.
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By Ruaumoko 2020-04-16 06:16:59
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I wouldn't be so sure about them not expanding on other elements in subsequent parts. It shouldn't be a problem either, because the core game engine is there and is proven to work really well. All they need to do is add environments, cutcenes, events and audio; they've already done most of the hard yards.

Based on what we've seen from the Midgar arc we know that Wutai is going to be a lot more developed, potentially Yuffie along with it.

I think that Vincent's story is going to be massively expanded upon, probably retconning elements from Dirge of Cerberus. He's probably going to play like a cross between Barret and Aerith, with a lot of agility to boot.
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