Final Fantasy VII

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Final Fantasy VII
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 Asura.Azriel
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By Asura.Azriel 2020-04-17 19:40:09
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After Kojima went full retard on 4th wall breaking epic nothingness, could anyone expect FF7 beeing not in the same wheel? ;/
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 Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas 2020-04-17 21:06:27
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Lmao Prothescar I'm actually pretty okay with that review.
Although I immensely enjoyed chapters 1-16, I don't agree to a 10/10 that some outlets are reporting.
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By Rips 2020-04-18 02:08:21
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Been reading what everyone's writing here and want to throw one thought in:

"7 seconds."

The amount of time we see Sephiroth from flying from the sky to stabbing Aerith in the original game. It was 7 seconds long.

Food for thought.
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By Draylo 2020-04-18 04:36:06
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Just finished the Ultimate fight in the VR simulator. That was a lot of fun.
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2020-04-18 06:32:03
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Review
It was more of a 7.8 for me. Maybe you turned the game music off but I found the music absolutely stunning sometimes. The music made a lot stuff that was boring as hell, a bit more enjoyable.

And for your final story thoughts:
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By Rips 2020-04-18 17:29:07
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After beating it and thinking it over, I have one question that maybe one of you can answer.

SPOILERS AHEAD:





When the "cross through" the light to defeat fate, are they crossing over dimensions to a mirror world? One where Zach lives there at the end? Or at the end are they still in their "World?"

If they did indeed passover and didnt go back, would that mean there are two of each of them?

Perhaps I'm thinking of this incorrectly.
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By Phoenix.Thorbean 2020-04-18 17:54:59
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2020-04-18 18:52:20
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By Rips 2020-04-19 10:52:30
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I see. Thanks for the replies.
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By Bismarck.Zuidar 2020-04-21 07:28:56
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Who wants some... or not XD
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-04-21 09:52:22
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Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas said: »
Nah, they wouldn't have told people that because it would have driven sales down based on expectations.

I agree with you on the amount of fun I had playing this - it's still a great game. I just don't see how we're going to continue the same story with how that ended. To me, it wouldn't make sense, that's all. That's my interpretation of the ending - we played through what story they wanted to keep, now it's time for a new one. We're definitely on opposing ends of where this is going, and that's okay, lmao.


Yeah, they killed the story.

IIRC, Sephiroth was an enigma when they originally left midgar. Much of the story is taken over by following his bread crumbs to figure out what he is up to and what his motivations are.
Also, piecing together the past. That build up is really important.

We don't have that here. They have done some foreshadowing, but not enough for a player to care, except they already played the orginal. He's brought in at the end like "LOOK ITS SEPHIROTH!!! THE BIG BAD DUDE!"

except they haven't built that up sufficiently.

Its not really a remake anymore. I'm honestly very disappointed with the end of it. My enthusiasm was building and building until the end when i feel like they flushed the story down the toilet.

The Whispers of Fate are plot armor. LITERAL plot armor for Baret at the top of Shinra Tower. but nothing is more boring than plot armor... Especially when its NOT needed.

Its really the most brilliant remake of a video game I've ever seen, until they needlessly toss it away.

Changing the gameplay, fleshing out side stories and quests and characters, is brilliant and good. Screwing w/ the core of the story is dangerous and difficult, and they screwed the pooch.

They went the cheap sequel route by throwing away meaning for bigger explosions.

A good game has to focus around the gameplay, but an Classic and lasting one must also tell a great story. Final Fantasy 7 did that. The remake was doing that brilliantly, until they snatched Failure from the jaws of Success.

I'm not really interested in how they complete the 'remake' anymore.
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By Draylo 2020-04-21 10:24:10
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You really don't know what they are going to do, you're drawing quite the assumption.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-04-21 10:34:22
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I mean it's not like they're going to steal the highwind from junon fly to the crater and drop a bomb on it.

The story is still going to be the story. All the pieces are there, there's just more of them. (Fort Condor minigames/side quests better be legit)

But if they lean in on the converging "alternate timelines" then sure it's going to be uninteresting.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas 2020-04-21 12:50:03
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Here are some extremely bad graphic representations of where I think they can go (assuming the beginning squiggly represents the re-imagining of the OG plot they've done so far). Curveball exaggerated for visual clarity
A) Curveball didn't matter; Plot curves back into the same general events (like how they presented 1-16)


B) Curveball gives us new events; Eventually end up at same conclusion:


c) Curveball gives us entirely new storyline to explore Gaia; Unknown journey
 Ragnarok.Corres
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2020-04-21 14:07:13
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I am looking forward what the original writer of ff7 has in store for us. To be honest since now the path is known while at the same time unclear, this is going to be interesting.
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 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-04-21 14:43:56
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas said: »
Nah, they wouldn't have told people that because it would have driven sales down based on expectations.

I agree with you on the amount of fun I had playing this - it's still a great game. I just don't see how we're going to continue the same story with how that ended. To me, it wouldn't make sense, that's all. That's my interpretation of the ending - we played through what story they wanted to keep, now it's time for a new one. We're definitely on opposing ends of where this is going, and that's okay, lmao.

IIRC, Sephiroth was an enigma when they originally left midgar. Much of the story is taken over by following his bread crumbs to figure out what he is up to and what his motivations are.
Also, piecing together the past. That build up is really important.

We don't have that here. They have done some foreshadowing, but not enough for a player to care, except they already played the orginal. He's brought in at the end like "LOOK ITS SEPHIROTH!!! THE BIG BAD DUDE!"

except they haven't built that up sufficiently.

Its not really a remake anymore. I'm honestly very disappointed with the end of it. My enthusiasm was building and building until the end when i feel like they flushed the story down the toilet.

The Whispers of Fate are plot armor. LITERAL plot armor for Baret at the top of Shinra Tower. but nothing is more boring than plot armor... Especially when its NOT needed.

Its really the most brilliant remake of a video game I've ever seen, until they needlessly toss it away.

Changing the gameplay, fleshing out side stories and quests and characters, is brilliant and good. Screwing w/ the core of the story is dangerous and difficult, and they screwed the pooch.

They went the cheap sequel route by throwing away meaning for bigger explosions.

A good game has to focus around the gameplay, but an Classic and lasting one must also tell a great story. Final Fantasy 7 did that. The remake was doing that brilliantly, until they snatched Failure from the jaws of Success.

I just finished the game and I agree. I was really REALLY liking everything up until they went Stranger Things on us at the end there.. like.. WHY? I guess I can kinda see some of their angles, they wanted to give the fans their "Sephiroth Fight" Appetizer but dafuq is up with this Whisper nonsense? completely unnecessary and annoying additions to the story lol. An absolutely brilliant job of making the story FULL and practical but those things? Just.. Why?.. lol. And dumping "Future Memories" into the characters minds during the fight? Are they going to just... Forget all that? or how is that going to effect the story as it progresses?

They left the story right where it should be and I'm still absolutely wanting more; That was just one HELL of a curveball and danced waaaaayyy too close to the "Alternate Dimension" line for my tastes. I really hope they do away with that or dial that way the hell down in the next expansion lol. There's really no telling what they'll do.

Also, has there been any word on if we'll keep our levels/gear in the next expansion? They haven't historically done this so I'm hesitant to grind out for the Pride and Joy item if it's gonna be a wash either way.
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By Asura.Meliorah 2020-04-21 15:56:30
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Collecting all the manuscripts was tedious but it's done, I've completed this game 100%.

I hope that when the next game comes out they'll handle level and item carry over much like dot//hack games back on the PS2.
 Asura.Azriel
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By Asura.Azriel 2020-04-21 15:59:59
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Or at least some swim suits like in Xenosaga with XP+ gain trait.

Also, Hollywood did it, Comics did it, Anime did it - if you moan long enough the ultimate solution comes up to the plan - Multiverse and Timetravel is the answer to everything and everyone ;)


If you look closly and listen carefully, you get the message loud and clear "Please no more Final Fantasy anymore, please"!
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-04-21 16:17:07
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I think a lot of the choices they made that some people are liking and others are not are all the consequence of a single choice: Making this game begin and start in Midgar.


Some complaints I've seen on random boards:
1) They added too much stuff on Midgar, most is fine but why water content so much? And a couple of things are really out of place!
They couldn't really make the game shorter, it's already not the longest jRPG we've seen so far

2) Why add those stupid Virtual Reality Soldier training that feels so contrived and out of place?
Because they wanted to give you a taste of things that would be out of place in Midgar, so they came out with this Virtual Reality idea.

3) Did they really have to add a Sephiroth fight so early? It kinda kills the slow build up that was in the original title.
Yes but could you really imagine a FF7R game without a Sephiroth in it? C'mon.

I could go on with people complaining about too much materia/gear, the level cap being too high and so on.


What is the one thing in common to all these and more things? The game starts and ends in Midgar, period.
They had to do all they did because it wouldn't have made sense to end in Midgar otherwise.

Question is... it's not like they HAD to end the game in Midgar. Even with an episodic nature, even with lots of additions to the Midgar part (clearly not as many as the current title) they could've totally chosen to make the FF7R episode 1 end further away in the original story, yet... they did not.
It was a choice.
They used a lot of excuses to explain it, but behind them all it was just that, their choice.
That one choice generated all the others as almost obvious consequences, imho.



To get a better, more sober and objective idea of this title I think we'll have to wait at least 1 year or more.
Atm you mostly notice the exagerations.
People who would've loved the game regardless.
People who would've criticized the game regardless.
Of course the "truth" has got to be somewhere in between those extremes, right?

I think it's a very well made game, but it's not the FF7 remake I was dreaming for nor the one I would've made if I had the chance to.
Still it's a cool game and it's way too early to know where this will be going so, in my book, way too early to give in to despair.

I just still feel a bit sour for the "Remake" part, in my definition whatever this is, it's not a "Remake".
Reboot? Sequel? Can think of many other more fitting definitions, but not Remake, and totally not what they've been continuosly saying for 5 years ("We're only adding things, not changing anything in the main plot!").
That was not true, they knew it very well and they decided to lie.
That is something that makes me feel tricked and seriously gets on my nerves.
This has very little to do with the quality of the game, it's more about feeling tricked, ***, lied to.
Some people don't care, some people don't feel like that etc.
Those who do, heh, it's a bad feeling trust me.
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By Ragnarok.Corres 2020-04-21 16:43:10
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Asura.Sechs said: »
I think a lot of the choices they made that some people are liking and others are not are all the consequence of a single choice: Making this game begin and start in Midgar.


Some complaints I've seen on random boards:
1) They added too much stuff on Midgar, most is fine but why water content so much? And a couple of things are really out of place!
They couldn't really make the game shorter, it's already not the longest jRPG we've seen so far

2) Why add those stupid Virtual Reality Soldier training that feels so contrived and out of place?
Because they wanted to give you a taste of things that would be out of place in Midgar, so they came out with this Virtual Reality idea.

3) Did they really have to add a Sephiroth fight so early? It kinda kills the slow build up that was in the original title.
Yes but could you really imagine a FF7R game without a Sephiroth in it? C'mon.

I could go on with people complaining about too much materia/gear, the level cap being too high and so on.


What is the one thing in common to all these and more things? The game starts and ends in Midgar, period.
They had to do all they did because it wouldn't have made sense to end in Midgar otherwise.

Question is... it's not like they HAD to end the game in Midgar. Even with an episodic nature, even with lots of additions to the Midgar part (clearly not as many as the current title) they could've totally chosen to make the FF7R episode 1 end further away in the original story, yet... they did not.
It was a choice.
They used a lot of excuses to explain it, but behind them all it was just that, their choice.
That one choice generated all the others as almost obvious consequences, imho.



To get a better, more sober and objective idea of this title I think we'll have to wait at least 1 year or more.
Atm you mostly notice the exagerations.
People who would've loved the game regardless.
People who would've criticized the game regardless.
Of course the "truth" has got to be somewhere in between those extremes, right?

I think it's a very well made game, but it's not the FF7 remake I was dreaming for nor the one I would've made if I had the chance to.
Still it's a cool game and it's way too early to know where this will be going so, in my book, way too early to give in to despair.

I just still feel a bit sour for the "Remake" part, in my definition whatever this is, it's not a "Remake".
Reboot? Sequel? Can think of many other more fitting definitions, but not Remake, and totally not what they've been continuosly saying for 5 years ("We're only adding things, not changing anything in the main plot!").
That was not true, they knew it very well and they decided to lie.
That is something that makes me feel tricked and seriously gets on my nerves.
This has very little to do with the quality of the game, it's more about feeling tricked, ***, lied to.
Some people don't care, some people don't feel like that etc.
Those who do, heh, it's a bad feeling trust me.

It IS a remake. What ppl want that hated it, is a Remaster.
This is a remake,period.

And for it ending with Midgar:
- This is a pivotal decisive moment for the characters to go out in the world. It is fitting to be that moment for a new game to continue.

The game clocks in with a hefty 90,5GB on the hard drive
I can only speak for myself but I had to uninstall 2 games on my Ps4 so I could download it. What would be alright for a game size for those people? You have to keep it reasonable.


There are textures on objects that were outsourced during development and don't load in the final game. Or very slowly. Those flowers for example. That was a major annoyance a couple of times.
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-04-21 16:56:04
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Asura.Sechs said: »
I think it's a very well made game, but it's not the FF7 remake I was dreaming for nor the one I would've made if I had the chance to.
Still it's a cool game and it's way too early to know where this will be going so, in my book, way too early to give in to despair.

Oh no, I agree. I still love it, at least me anyway.
I only have two gripes and one concern that I could live with or without:

  • Don't like the Whispers. Obviously they aren't going away but at the present point of the game they seem needlessly annoying and try to mess with the story "Because Fate". I can live with them, just just annoy me that's all.

  • Never been a fan of "Alternate Dimensions". Besides, that's usually a card you pull for when the story has already been completed. In this game, the story is only just starting so it messes with me.

  • Hoping we get an Item/Level carry with the next expansion.
    Was already lv.50 on finishing the story (2 Person Tag Team in Colosseum is a super good grind; couldn't help myself) Now I'm already starting the story over again to get the last Manuscripts and there's a good chance I'll try for 100% so it'd be nice to see it not wasted. BUT I can understand if they don't allow the Pride and Joy item to pass; that thing would break your future gameplay lol

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 Asura.Azriel
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By Asura.Azriel 2020-04-21 17:17:47
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Its like the FF Type Zero guy and the Advent Children team had a ritual wank while playing Shen Mue and tried to close some gaps in their past life. Last few Months the lead dude comes in and interrupts the wank fest with the idea of alternative fate twists so all the Aerith/Aeris argument can die.

This game looks good on visuals and sound is also a 10 on the qualitymeter but maaaaaan - midgar thinned out to the point of meaningless "wet floor" signs and random box staples you throw over the 99th time because there is noting else left after the handfull hack n' stagger fights - storytellng in action move angles and the few corridors and loops to run around to get the IMMERSIVE Midgar feel ... i honestly dont see where the 100GB went into ;/

Other games offer so much more for 100GB ... really lol

Anyway, most will play it for the nostalgia and thats ok, but the game is so empty and bad for a 2020 AAA "Remake" its like they want to finally crash that plane and move on.
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By Asura.Schroe 2020-04-21 17:30:34
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Asura.Azriel said: »
100GB went into
Uncompressed audio most likely. I would have rather had a good FF16 than this.
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 Asura.Meliorah
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By Asura.Meliorah 2020-04-21 17:31:01
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wut? did we play the same game? are you still only in mako reactor 1?
 Asura.Azriel
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By Asura.Azriel 2020-04-21 17:31:39
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Platin in 7 days and it was ez

and nothing new ;/
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By Asura.Azriel 2020-04-21 17:32:31
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Asura.Schroe said: »
Asura.Azriel said: »
100GB went into
Uncompressed audio most likely. I would have rather had a good FF16 than this.


Same.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-04-21 17:38:27
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Ragnarok.Corres said: »
It IS a remake. What ppl want that hated it, is a Remaster.
This is a remake,period.
A remaster is not a game remade from zero.
It's a porting.
You can try to make it better but it's gonna be the same game, pretty much.

Just quoting FF games and not other brands check FFX/X2 Remaster, check FFXII, check FF8 who's seen quite a good share of remasters, the last of which brought cut-scene models as regular models.

A remaster is like that, it's the same game and you power up where you can, which is clearly more for fully 3D native games, and obviously less for 2D games and what's in between.


A Remake is a game where you re-make the game from zero, but it's still the same game. You might fix bugs, cut something, add something, gameplay might change completely but the story is the same, save minor details.
Check, I dunno what to quote here, but Shadow of the Colossus? Maybe Resident Evil 2 and 3? (But I haven't played those, so I'm not sure about the magnitute of the changes, think the story is pretty much the same though?)

Here we got promised a game that wouldn't have touched the story but would've only added things.
Pretty accurate on the latter, not so accurate on the rest.
Atm we don't even know where this will be going so it's way too early, but what's for certain is that this is quite different from a Remake.
Clearly we need to use a different word. Pick the one you want, make up a neologism if you so wish, but Remake will always be a misleading definition close to this title.

I'm not sure this is even that relevant in the end, it's just a matter of "labels". Would things be different if SE called it FF7 Reboot?
Or if they admitted "yeah ok sorry it's not a remake but we're still proud of it".
Would it?
The game would still be the same so, in the end, it's pointless to discuss about the "right word" to use.

I just like to point it out because those of us who are disappointed by the title, despite seeing how nice of a title it is in general, feel "tricked" by how SE has been promoting and marketing this game so far, in a quite misleading way.
Maybe things will change in the future -who knows- but of course right now we can only talk about what we have in our hands.
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-04-21 17:44:25
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I wonder: among those who fell in love with this game, who watched Advent Children and did you like it?

Did you watch it when you were a kid, when you were an adult?
I'm really curious what people feel about it because personally I can see a thin line behind the approach of both AC and this FF7R.
They're two completely different things and AC is pure ***for me whereas FF7R is a good game.

Still, I "feel" they are very very close to each other in their approach to the world of FF7, and both "feel" very far away from the original FF7.



I dunno, it's quite a vague feeling, I can barely grasp it, it's hard to describe it. Wonder if anybody felt the same, or the other way around actually, would be funny :-D
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By Valefor.Endoq 2020-04-21 17:53:54
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I never could get into FF7. All my friends and family (cousins) were obsessed with it though... Advent Children sucked.. the sword fight was cool though. The spell “Holy” made me upset at ffxi because I played WHM and Holy is a crap spell lol
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-04-21 17:54:19
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Draylo said: »
You really don't know what they are going to do, you're drawing quite the assumption.


Naw, I'm judging what they did in this game.

It's.not hard to know when episode 1 makes a fatal flaw in a story that is not recoverable, so don't bother with episode 2
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