Top 5 Aeonics?

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Top 5 Aeonics?
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2019-01-25 12:16:38
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Half the reason Foma is so potent is you can use the ammo with any gun. And nothing is even close to the base damage of chrono bullets.
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By SimonSes 2019-01-25 12:24:50
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TLDR ranking

S tier:
Marsyas
Chango
Trishula

A+ tier:
Lionheart
Fomalhault
Dojikiri
Heishi

A tier:
Sequence
Aeneas

B tier:
Godhands
Anguta

Cant say about other weapons.

Why?

Marsyas: Dont really need to explain
Chango: It's the best weapon for WAR at R15 and basically only weapon you need. Bis for WS spam, skillchains and mighty strikes (arguably tied with Gsword for that, but still better because of random skillchains in group and self skillchain as solo DD). AM on Chango is tied to bis gaxe WS.
Trishula: Very similar situation to Chango. Best for WS spam and skillchains. AM tied to best polearm WS.

Lionheart: It's situation is very similar to S tier weapons, but RUN is a tank not pure DD job, so this weapon doesn't cover all his needs. If you look and RUN only from DPS perspective, then this wepaon could be considered S tier.
Fomalhault: Again very similar situation to S tier weapons, but the big difference here is that both COR and RNG have both physical and magical WS and recently use magical more and Fomal is only bis for Last Stand. COR also has Savage Blade if he needs physical WS.
Dojikiri: In Fudo spam it loses to Masamune but its still bis for self 3-5 step skillchaining and self 3-5 step skillchaining on SAM is so big and important part of this job role and playstyle that this weapon deserve A+ tier imo
Heishi: It's bis DPS weapon for NIN (especially if you add magic bursting to the mix), but it uses Blade: Ten as main WS to beat other weapons. AM is tied to ok WS in underbuffed scenario, but it's not the situation like for S tier weapons.

Sequence: It's A tier only because Savage Blade is really good for fights where you dont want to make skillchains and because it's good DPS weapon for RDM and good BLU offhand for Almace, but generally it's nothing special and usually very behind other REMA swords.
Aeneas: It situationally (when you cant get AM on mythic) best DPS weapon for BRD. It's very good weapon for THF. 4 step umbra is especially nice on DNC (high skillchain bonus), but it's not clearly bis for any of this job. I feel like on paper it's closest to be A+ weapon for THF, but the way THF is played (situational holding TP for SA/TA Rudra), THF very high overtping, triple attack damage (making white damage significantly more important) and also because TP bonus offhand being viable for many events, Aeneas is still only A tier for THF.

Godhands: Beaten for pure DPS by Verethragna. Multistep skillchains on MNK is not really good option and Shijin sucks. It could be good for Impetus down/Footwork up scenario when you spam Tornado Kick, but even then it probably wont beat Veret holding TP for highTP Tornado Kicks or even spaming VS. The only situation where it could be bis is maybe for fights where you dont want skillchains and you would spam Raging Fists.
Anguta: Mythic is better for DPS (with scythe). Multistep skillchain is not a good option for DRK (same as MNK, no native skillchain bonuses, need to use poor WSs like Entropy and Quietus).
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 Asura.Snapster
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-01-25 12:33:39
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Lionheart RUN is still a potent DPS job but you need a lot of support. Both jobs get similar gains from their aeonic augments. DRG has PDL3 + PDL neck and RUN/SAM only has PDL1 although you won't be using PDL neck on DRG during weaponskill as Fotia is better or at least they are very close, so there isn't as much of a benefit there. I'd put my money on RUN still.
 Asura.Veikur
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-01-25 13:03:41
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DRG overflows obscenely easily. Beyond that, Trish+Moonshade already pushes Stardivers fTP (1.125 @1750) into the realm where PDL+10 is better if you've got the de/buffs to support it.
 Asura.Snapster
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-01-25 13:11:08
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Yes but you're still required to give up Fotia Gorget, which tears into your gains from JSE Neck. At 1100 + 750 TP Bonus + Fotia Belt you're at 1.275 fTP per hit. Fotia would give you a marginal gain of 7.84% whereas the neck would give you a marginal gain of at least 10% (probably around 12.5% because the STR). It's certainly better but it's not a huge gain like other weaponskills that are giving up pieces like Caro Necklace or whatever.
 Leviathan.Kingkitt
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2019-01-25 13:23:36
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Asura.Sirris said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Lionheart seems okay but a Drg would probably do better than DD Run.

I'm... not sure that this is true? Assuming a fully-buffed melee zerg? Usually when I've seen RUN fully-buffed they are doing a hybrid-tanking role rather than full dps, and Reso with Lionheart pumps out huge numbers, so I honestly don't know.

My money is on a properly geared rune with lionheart!
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 Leviathan.Sidra
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2019-01-25 16:28:13
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Leviathan.Kingkitt said: »
Asura.Sirris said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Lionheart seems okay but a Drg would probably do better than DD Run.

I'm... not sure that this is true? Assuming a fully-buffed melee zerg? Usually when I've seen RUN fully-buffed they are doing a hybrid-tanking role rather than full dps, and Reso with Lionheart pumps out huge numbers, so I honestly don't know.

My money is on a properly geared rune with lionheart!

Bring it on mofo!
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-01-25 19:54:28
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The top 5 should be the ones that are so far ahead DPS-wise, either situational or in general, or is a BRD specific piece. Any others are either crap or close enough in performance where i don't consider it "top 5" material

Lionheart
Chango
Fomal
Horn.
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 Asura.Snapster
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-01-25 22:15:04
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Fomalhaut doesn't make the list IMO. It's eclipsed by Gastra and Death Penalty. For physical damage, Armageddon might be a strong contender or even better. For S tier, I'd say

Chango
Lionheart
Marsyas
Trishula
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By Afania 2019-01-25 22:29:26
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Asura.Snapster said: »
Armageddon might be a strong contender or even better.

Only if armageddon has the bullet from fomalhaut, basically arma cant reach its fullest potential without fomal. That makes fomal more game changing than arma imo.

Would say fomal is at least on the same level as lionheart and trishula.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor
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By Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor 2019-01-25 22:53:55
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Valefor.Angierus said: »
How about we have Ruaumoko make 2 10 minute long ad infested videos of himself fighting neak alone with trusts. Each a video about the job, and he can read the descriptions of the job abilities off their tooltips while we watch him kill things in the background.
This is why we can't have nice things. Only derps surf the web without ad blocker. The list of people making videos for this shitty *** old game is very small. If you think you can do something better, plz do et
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By 2019-01-26 02:56:24
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By SimonSes 2019-01-26 05:43:41
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Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor said: »
Valefor.Angierus said: »
How about we have Ruaumoko make 2 10 minute long ad infested videos of himself fighting neak alone with trusts. Each a video about the job, and he can read the descriptions of the job abilities off their tooltips while we watch him kill things in the background.
This is why we can't have nice things. Only derps surf the web without ad blocker. The list of people making videos for this shitty *** old game is very small. If you think you can do something better, plz do et

You defend youtuber, but you advice ad blocker to block his revenue. Great logic.
 Asura.Chaostaru
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By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-01-26 10:23:08
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SimonSes said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor said: »
Valefor.Angierus said: »
How about we have Ruaumoko make 2 10 minute long ad infested videos of himself fighting neak alone with trusts. Each a video about the job, and he can read the descriptions of the job abilities off their tooltips while we watch him kill things in the background.
This is why we can't have nice things. Only derps surf the web without ad blocker. The list of people making videos for this shitty *** old game is very small. If you think you can do something better, plz do et

You defend youtuber, but you advice ad blocker to block his revenue. Great logic.

He doesnt get any revenue from that. 2.2k subs with those views doesnt qualify for monetization
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 Asura.Snapster
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-01-26 13:43:54
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Afania said: »
Asura.Snapster said: »
Armageddon might be a strong contender or even better.

Only if armageddon has the bullet from fomalhaut, basically arma cant reach its fullest potential without fomal. That makes fomal more game changing than arma imo.

Would say fomal is at least on the same level as lionheart and trishula.

DPS RUN is trash without Lionheart. The same cannot be said about RNG or COR. They're not comparable. Even without Chrono Bullet you can still do good physical on COR and RNG, and in most cases it's preferable not to use Fomalhaut anyways (Savage Blade because it's better DPS, Coronach because of enmity issues).

I like the weapon too but don't put it on a pedestal it doesn't deserve. It's good but not on the same level in regards to what Lionheart does for RUN. I don't know about Trishula as much so I can't remark on that.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-01-26 13:50:14
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It really depends on the criteria behind it. If you assume everything is available, Fomalhaut is not that great. If you're looking at value in terms of the weapon itself, someone starting out will derive amazing value from Fomalhaut. It's a significant step up for last stand, trueflight, and leaden salute in the absence of mythics.

There is no way I'd leave Lionheart out of top 5.

PS: Rua is an average player at best, just too many plebians who can't understand anything without it spelled out in a youtube video. Good commenting voice, though.
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 Asura.Snapster
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-01-26 13:52:07
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Yeah, it's got unbeatable general purpose utility for both jobs that can use it. If that's the criteria for what you feel is best then sure. I'm looking at it in relation to other options without constraints.
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By Taint 2019-01-26 14:40:02
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It’s still a top 5 aeonic per the discussion.
 Asura.Snapster
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By Asura.Snapster 2019-01-26 14:56:24
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Taint said: »
It’s still a top 5 aeonic per the discussion.

Definitely not IMO. There are other contenders that bring more to the job.

Doji - Radiance makes multi-stepping hugely better. Depending on mob affinity this will be better than Fudo spam.

Heishi - Allows Shun to self skillchain and greatly increases its attack bonus to the point where it's often the best weaponskill available to Ninja. Ninja can also do multistep Radiance. The augments have only made this better.

Both of these options are job transforming and circumstantially essential. They are at least on par with Fomalhaut in regards to what they bring to the job.
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By Taint 2019-01-26 15:31:00
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Why do people act like a Masamune can’t 5 step?

Fudo > Fudo
Fudo > kasha > Shoha > Fudo
Shoha > Fudo > Kasha > Shoha > Fudo

All chains get Fudo+10% twice and end on Fudo. All WSs benefit from the +70 str and 50% X3 damage is effortless to maintain on SAM.

R15 ***on Doji.

NIN is a little more complex do to attack deficiencies but I’d still argue COR being a much better job would benefit from Foma more than any REMA NIN weapon. CORs weapon needs are pretty crazy from MHs to Ranged options and Foma is its best physical ranged weapon.
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By Afania 2019-01-26 15:47:50
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Asura.Snapster said: »
Afania said: »
Asura.Snapster said: »
Armageddon might be a strong contender or even better.

Only if armageddon has the bullet from fomalhaut, basically arma cant reach its fullest potential without fomal. That makes fomal more game changing than arma imo.

Would say fomal is at least on the same level as lionheart and trishula.

DPS RUN is trash without Lionheart.

By your logic ranged cor is also trash without fomal or at least the bullet.

Run as the job itself is not trash without lionheart since its a tank majority of time and epeo is much better for tanking and dd tanking. Thats why I wouldnt even rank lionheart on par with chango.

Asura.Snapster said: »
The same cannot be said about RNG or COR. They're not comparable.

Sure if you only ever use cor in dyna D. Shooting is half the playstyle on cor and outside of dyna D fomal is generally much better for shooting.

In some of the ambu, such as soulflayer month, cor using a fomal is on another lv compare with cor using an arma without bullets. Cor can shoot, ws twice and solo an imp. Without the 50 to 60k light sc the kill speed is much slower. Arma is also not nearly as powerful as fomal without high D from the bullets. And thats before counting sc dmg which often worth 20% or more on parse.

Asura.Snapster said: »
, and in most cases it's preferable not to use Fomalhaut anyways (Savage Blade because it's better DPS, Coronach because of enmity issues).

You arent doing ranged ambu with savage blade.


Asura.Snapster said: »
I like the weapon too but don't put it on a pedestal it doesn't deserve. It's good but not on the same level in regards to what Lionheart does for RUN. I don't know about Trishula as much so I can't remark on that.

I put fomal on par with lionheart, because both opens up the other half of playstyle of the job. Lionheart allows run dd and fomal allows cor to do physical ranged dps. The fact that armageddon needs chrono bullet to reached fullest potential pretty much blocked cor from being a "ranged physical dd" without fomalhaut.

I rank both fomalhaut and lionheart below chango because war is melee DD only. So chango contributes at least 80% of the jobs playstyle or more. This is unlike cor often melee or do magical ws, or run often tank in epeo.


Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
It really depends on the criteria behind it. If you assume everything is available, Fomalhaut is not that great. If you're looking at value in terms of the weapon itself, someone starting out will derive amazing value from Fomalhaut. It's a significant step up for last stand, trueflight, and leaden salute in the absence of mythics.

There is no way I'd leave Lionheart out of top 5.

No its the other way around, lionheart is overrated in this case, imo. Run can be played as a run to very close to full potential in endgame with just epeo. That being said we have to pick 5 and it is indeed very good for dpsing. Thats why its still there. Imo its worse than chango and marsyas.
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By SimonSes 2019-01-26 15:58:15
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Asura.Chaostaru said: »
He doesnt get any revenue from that. 2.2k subs with those views doesnt qualify for monetization

Its not about Rua specifically. He is most likely using ad block for every video on youtube, reducing revenue for everyone who can get it. He uses tools against content creators, but he attack someone for possibly scaring someone off being content creator. It's just hypocritical.
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By Afania 2019-01-26 15:59:41
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Asura.Snapster said: »
Both of these options are job transforming and circumstantially essential. They are at least on par with Fomalhaut in regards to what they bring to the job.

Fomal also opens up multi step radiance for cor, it isnt just nin thing.

In mage pt it also opens up one extra step for thunder nukes via frag(sch) > fusion(last stand) > light (last stand). Without light property it stopped at 2 steps.

Cor isnt just a leaden salute spamming job in dyna, its used in every setup, including rng and mage pt, and often has to do a ws or two in 4 steps for mages to mb. And fomal plays a big role for these.
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By SimonSes 2019-01-26 16:13:21
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@Afania so you basically can agree with my list?

Taint said: »
Why do people act like a Masamune can’t 5 step?

Fudo > Fudo
Fudo > kasha > Shoha > Fudo
Shoha > Fudo > Kasha > Shoha > Fudo

All chains get Fudo+10% twice and end on Fudo. All WSs benefit from the +70 str and 50% X3 damage is effortless to maintain on SAM.

R15 ***on Doji.

NIN is a little more complex do to attack deficiencies but I’d still argue COR being a much better job would benefit from Foma more than any REMA NIN weapon. CORs weapon needs are pretty crazy from MHs to Ranged options and Foma is its best physical ranged weapon.

R15 Masamune doesn't ***on R15 doji for WS numbers.
AFAIK R15 Doji still has stronger Fudo between 1000 and 2000TP and has stronger Shoha and stronger Kasha too (they benefit from 70 STR, but they benefit even more from 500TP bonus). If you want to self skillchain instead of Fudo spam, its mostly because skillchains have bonus damage (like Kei for example) on the target and you most likely wont over tp above 2000 too (and dont have Warcry or Shiva TP bonus), so all WSs and skillchains should be stronger with Doji. Correct me if I'm wrong tho.
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By Afania 2019-01-26 16:31:41
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SimonSes said: »
@Afania so you basically can agree with my list?

I never say I dont, lol. I upvotted Kytes list and thats pretty much top 5 in my mind too.

SimonSes said: »
R15 Masamune doesn't ***on R15 doji for WS numbers.
AFAIK R15 Doji still has stronger Fudo between 1000 and 2000TP and has stronger Shoha and stronger Kasha too (they benefit from 70 STR, but they benefit even more from 500TP bonus). If you want to self skillchain instead of Fudo spam, its mostly because skillchains have bonus damage (like Kei for example) on the target and you most likely wont over tp above 2000 too (and dont have Warcry or Shiva TP bonus), so all WSs and skillchains should be stronger with Doji. Correct me if I'm wrong tho.



If I remember correctly, Austars sim had masa pull ahead because sam overflow a lot. And thats before augment too.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/41903/bushido-the-way-of-the-samurai-a-guide-v-20/81/

I counted 17 out of 43 ws that has 1750+, when you self skillchain with buffs you can also wait for another swing or 2 for 2000 tp to do the 2nd ws, ws as fast as possible isnt always necessary for scing.
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By SimonSes 2019-01-26 19:19:41
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Afania said: »
SimonSes said: »
@Afania so you basically can agree with my list?

I never say I dont, lol. I upvotted Kytes list and thats pretty much top 5 in my mind too.

SimonSes said: »
R15 Masamune doesn't ***on R15 doji for WS numbers.
AFAIK R15 Doji still has stronger Fudo between 1000 and 2000TP and has stronger Shoha and stronger Kasha too (they benefit from 70 STR, but they benefit even more from 500TP bonus). If you want to self skillchain instead of Fudo spam, its mostly because skillchains have bonus damage (like Kei for example) on the target and you most likely wont over tp above 2000 too (and dont have Warcry or Shiva TP bonus), so all WSs and skillchains should be stronger with Doji. Correct me if I'm wrong tho.



If I remember correctly, Austars sim had masa pull ahead because sam overflow a lot. And thats before augment too.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/41903/bushido-the-way-of-the-samurai-a-guide-v-20/81/

I counted 17 out of 43 ws that has 1750+, when you self skillchain with buffs you can also wait for another swing or 2 for 2000 tp to do the 2nd ws, ws as fast as possible isnt always necessary for scing.

Ok even at 2250TP, the Fudo numbers should be equal. What makes Masamune pull ahead, is white damage more than WS numbers. Kasha is even more affected by Doji, because from 2500TP to 3000TP it gets +21% dmg on main hit, while Fudo only 16% and Kasha is 75%STR, not 80% and Masamune has no +10% Kasha dmg. Now Shoha should be better with Doji, even at 3000TP, because 70STR is like +6.8% increase to Shoha damage (EDIT: It could be a little misleading what I wrote here. 70STR is actually ~8.6% increase to Shoha for Masamune, ~6.8% is with taking into account that Doji has 11 higher base damage), while Doji is +10% from augment.

So even if you take 2250TP as avg when doing multi-step, you have Fudo doing same damage with both GKT and Kasha/Shoha doing more with Doji. Now Doji makes Radiance, not double light and has AM bonus on closing Fudo with 4 step and at every skillchain with 5 step. So unless double light with Masamune hits 99999, Doji should have higher WS/skillchain numbers when doing multi-step. If those higher WS/SC numbers can outdamage Masamuen white damage will probably change depends on the target.

Oh and I was just asking if you agree with my list, I didnt mean to say, that you said you disagree :)
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By hobo 2019-01-26 21:27:13
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Afania said: »
In mage pt it also opens up one extra step for thunder nukes via frag(sch) > fusion(last stand) > light (last stand). Without light property it stopped at 2 steps.

Frag to last stand is light without aftermath.
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By SimonSes 2019-01-26 21:32:16
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hobo said: »
Afania said: »
In mage pt it also opens up one extra step for thunder nukes via frag(sch) > fusion(last stand) > light (last stand). Without light property it stopped at 2 steps.

Frag to last stand is light without aftermath.

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By Afania 2019-01-26 21:52:01
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hobo said: »
Afania said: »
In mage pt it also opens up one extra step for thunder nukes via frag(sch) > fusion(last stand) > light (last stand). Without light property it stopped at 2 steps.

Frag to last stand is light without aftermath.


I said 3 steps, not 2. 3rd step needs aftermath.
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