Apex Cleaving

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Apex Cleaving
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-10-08 22:50:03
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Yep, you read the title right.

I can't take credit for this idea. This goes to my man Cleen.
I want to refine it more. linked video is a test case. In a DUO. I can only say a full party would be a blast.

YouTube Video Placeholder


just had to share it cuz it was alot of fun.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-08 23:09:15
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This was brutal to watch.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-10-08 23:12:52
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I don't think star gives matk to pets, I'd use kupo for the CP bonus really.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2018-10-08 23:48:43
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What kind of gear is needed for Aeolian Edge to hit "properly"?

I started making a set a while ago to cleave lower level stuff for some solo JP but if a little more efforts can make Apex more viable, I'm in.
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2018-10-09 00:16:24
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Dear God, that frame rate...

Nice work though, I've been wondering myself if AoE Spam would be viable for Apex farming but haven't gotten around to trying; largely due to work and also being on Asura where there are tons of people at nearly every camp.

Two Thumbs up from me

Please upgrade your PC or fix w/e's causing that frame rate though before recording again, I beg of you xD
 Quetzalcoatl.Senaki
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By Quetzalcoatl.Senaki 2018-10-09 01:44:11
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Hmm, it's interesting. Cleaving Apex like that would certainly give a lot of burst job points. But can you keep a chain going for any extended period of time like the other methods?
 Asura.Vienner
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By Asura.Vienner 2018-10-09 02:26:31
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When I'm stoned, my head feels like this vid.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-10-09 02:44:24
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That frame rate is the thing nightmares are made of u_u

Ramuh.Austar said: »
I don't think star gives matk to pets, I'd use kupo for the CP bonus really.
The major point is that AEdge is doing all the work and the pet lowered Mdef, Sybil is buffing the AE

If anything Sylvie is worthless, that's where you want Kupo
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By Skunkamaniac 2018-10-09 03:04:27
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lol this is nothing new, i was mercing job points on quez cleaving apex years ago and can cleave upto 35 apex a pull now.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-10-09 03:26:58
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You've got to remember that assura is 2 years behind everything.
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By Skunkamaniac 2018-10-09 03:34:10
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lol OP is on quez, server i use to merc on and cleen paid me to apex cleave his rng to master. Yeah i've not heard of anyone apex cleaving on asura, i wouldn't see it working well due to too many people at camps.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-10-09 03:53:50
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Meh so many people server jump thought he was legit on asura.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-10-09 04:03:15
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Just a quick example. This is more or less how PLD AE cleave on Apex is supposed to go. Minus my fumbling at start, and being too impatient to wait for 3k TP each ws. TP gain felt a bit slow. Maybe I missed some mobs on the pull.

And most importantly, framerate!
YouTube Video Placeholder
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-10-09 07:46:14
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Guess I wasn't explicit enough:
I posted this as a "Proof of Concept"

I'm not trying to show anyone up, but apparently the many took to Epeen either about framerate or "I can do that better!"

It sounds like others might have supertanked Apex mobs before. Cleen didn't claim credit, just invited me to cp party.

I gave credit because any of you doing this were being hush hush about it.

I can only guess that you were more worried about someone stealing your camp than anything else. (HOARDERS!)


Frankly, if you are all being so secretive, I don't think you deserve credit anyway, because you missed the point.

If you can supertank Apex mobs, you can bring in a full party to cleave them down faster. A real Geo who actually uses Malaise, 1 player whm instead of multiple trusts. pld/blu to hold everything better while blm and blue AoE or Smn and bst, or any other jobs that AoE well.

This was pretty decent JP already in a duo, and as some have overjoyed to focus on, NOT a perfect setup.

One of the things I enjoy most about FFXI is when you can exercise new battle styles and fun and interesting synergies.
So I share it in hopes that others will find the same.

~And a parting shot for all the Epeen out there: I can only imagine your trying to overcompensate for deficiencies elsewhere!
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 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2018-10-09 09:16:07
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Guess I wasn't explicit enough:
I posted this as a "Proof of Concept"

I'm not trying to show anyone up, but apparently the many took to Epeen either about framerate or "I can do that better!"

It sounds like others might have supertanked Apex mobs before. Cleen didn't claim credit, just invited me to cp party.

I gave credit because any of you doing this were being hush hush about it.

I can only guess that you were more worried about someone stealing your camp than anything else. (HOARDERS!)


Frankly, if you are all being so secretive, I don't think you deserve credit anyway, because you missed the point.

If you can supertank Apex mobs, you can bring in a full party to cleave them down faster. A real Geo who actually uses Malaise, 1 player whm instead of multiple trusts. pld/blu to hold everything better while blm and blue AoE or Smn and bst, or any other jobs that AoE well.

This was pretty decent JP already in a duo, and as some have overjoyed to focus on, NOT a perfect setup.

One of the things I enjoy most about FFXI is when you can exercise new battle styles and fun and interesting synergies.
So I share it in hopes that others will find the same.

~And a parting shot for all the Epeen out there: I can only imagine your trying to overcompensate for deficiencies elsewhere!

You should try reading everyones post, some congratulated you, some asked for advice on gear,a few mentioned frame rate which has nothing to do with epeen, then they mentioned which server you were on and such, along with posting another video about how it can be done (Whether its the same method or not is irrelivent)

Don't take offence to whats not there, I see no reason after reading everyones post to have taken offence and insulting them in the process. Be happy people responded with some mentioning it helped and encouraged them to consider gearing towards it while others doing exactly what you done and offered another options, he may have said
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
This is more or less how PLD AE cleave on Apex is supposed to go
however that line means nothing to belittling you
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-10-09 09:31:25
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Wow. Well. I guess we both had our expectations betrayed. Accusations of conspiracy and epeen swinging were certainly not in my list of anticipated responses.

As I said, what I posted was an example of how I think this kinda of cleave should go. And my expectation was that it would prompt questions about setup, procedure, or gearsets and there could be discussion of such. Clearly, as usual, I do not understand people or how they react to things.

I guess on the bright side I did have some fun dusting off the olde cleave for a bit. So I suppose I'll try to focus on that.
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 Cerberus.Drayco
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By Cerberus.Drayco 2018-10-09 09:44:30
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Wow. Well. I guess we both had our expectations betrayed. Accusations of conspiracy and epeen swinging were certainly not in my list of anticipated responses.

As I said, what I posted was an example of how I think this kinda of cleave should go. And my expectation was that it would prompt questions about setup, procedure, or gearsets and there could be discussion of such. Clearly, as usual, I do not understand people or how they react to things.

I guess on the bright side I did have some fun dusting off the olde cleave for a bit. So I suppose I'll try to focus on that.
I'd love to see your AE set.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-10-09 10:08:23
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Odin.Horu said: »
You should try reading everyones post, some congratulated you, some asked for advice on gear,a few mentioned frame rate which has nothing to do with epeen, then they mentioned which server you were on and such, along with posting another video about how it can be done (Whether its the same method or not is irrelivent)

Don't take offence to whats not there, I see no reason after reading everyones post to have taken offence and insulting them in the process. Be happy people responded with some mentioning it helped and encouraged them to consider gearing towards it while others doing exactly what you done and offered another options, he may have said

You are right and I apologize to everyone. I reread the comments and they are not nearly as disparaging as It seemed when I first read them.

I think it was the complaints about the frame rate that started the tone and I was probably tired and grouchy. Not an excuse, just reflecting. Sorry everyone that I was reactionary and short-tempered.

as I said, I mostly wanted to share that PLD can supertank Apex, and even w/ just a modest Aeolian Edge Set, its profitable JP.

I'll look into improving frame rate. Frankly I've not really made an effort to make videos. I just turned it on because I thought it would help tell the idea.

my PC is really not working very hard. its kind of annoying that it won't kick in and use my GPU much. I was using DGVoodoo when a good ffxi release was working, but after a week or 2 it started preventing game from loading.

Anyway, not sure what to do for frame rate, I could lower alot of settings, but my fan doesn't even come on as it is. I chalked it up to old game and direct x 9, and haven't really bothered to test it thoroughly.

Eiryl was right that I mainly wanted Bredo in there for MDB down and add some dps. more of a support roll. Though i'm curious how much my Primal Rend/Cloudsplitter set would do if I tried Aeolian edge on Bst/dnc. Shoot, I could have added a significant bit more. Pet alone was doing about 1/2 the damage as PLD. Master could probably match PLD. Not sure. I honestly haven't tested Aoelian Edge on bst since Abyssea was the most recent content.

Also FYI for bst, usuing Familiar w/ bredo makes a very noticable difference in MAcc. It makes the damage much more consistent between 8k~11k instead of wandering around like it sometimes did.

Bats and crabs are not the best targets for Bredo. Pestilent Plume is Darkness. the normal ~10k Damage is reduced to 500~800 range on Bats. but the MDB down seems to stick alright.


and to Senaki's comment of keeping a chain, its not so much, the pulls take enough time to break the chain, but will you chain pretty much every mob in the pull.

if you used another puller and slept them, while pld establishes hate on them, you could pull in another group of mobs from different direction. Might be able to sustain chain that way. but I didn't take long to get over 100 jp int he example above.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-10-09 10:29:56
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Cerberus.Drayco said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Wow. Well. I guess we both had our expectations betrayed. Accusations of conspiracy and epeen swinging were certainly not in my list of anticipated responses.

As I said, what I posted was an example of how I think this kinda of cleave should go. And my expectation was that it would prompt questions about setup, procedure, or gearsets and there could be discussion of such. Clearly, as usual, I do not understand people or how they react to things.

I guess on the bright side I did have some fun dusting off the olde cleave for a bit. So I suppose I'll try to focus on that.
I'd love to see your AE set.
Sure.

Augments are varying levels of MAB/MAC/WSD on odyssean. WSD on cape. I haven't actually made a dedicated cape for AE, so this is just using my savage cape.
ItemSet 333947
I used to have Kariyeh ring in there, and only band-aided it with a Ramuh ring when I changed to Vocane. Could probably do better there.

Orpheus' sash would be epic for this set. If you can get it. other wise Eschan Stone would be an improvement.

Pemphedro Tathlum over Dosis.

Carmine body+1 D path would probably be better than Odyssean and less annoying to augment. But I'm honestly not certain on the break points for MAB vs WSD. Carmine has 42 MAB on D path. Assuming non DM augs on Odyssean (30 MAB) it'd be 12 MAB vs 4% WSD. Assuming max augs. and that's quite an assumption.
Similar comparison to Carmine+1 on the hands. except more WSD since Odyssean have 2% WSD base.

If anyone knows of a good AE dmg calculator I'd be interested in seeing it. I've tried to go through the math involved in calculating AE dmg, but could never seem to get tings to match up right with actual in game tests.

EDIT: I thought I'd mention some good non-reisen augment options. Cause random augs suck

Founder's breastplate. +35 MAB w/ max augs. Still RNG, but not as RNG as reisen.
Eschite legs +25 MAB. I forget which aug path. D probably.
Leyline gloves +30 MAB and a big chunk of macc at max augs.
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By Pantafernando 2018-10-09 10:34:53
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Which plugin allows you to show real time your current set?
Thanks in advance
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-09 10:35:01
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Switch to Crabs and Monk/PLD Cataclysm/AE parties can shine. I've been looking to set one of those us because I know it would work with malaise/acumen/star, I just don't know any stave monks that would be down for it.

2 MNK
PLD
GEO
<star sibyl>
WHM (can be outside party as well if someone has mule)

Won't work well on bats, but should be fine for other stuff.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-10-09 10:35:27
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Pantafernando said: »
Which plugin allows you to show real time your current set?
Thanks in advance

equipviewer, but that plugin badly lags my game sadly.
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 Cerberus.Drayco
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By Cerberus.Drayco 2018-10-09 11:43:29
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I used to do a lot of AE on thf. I've always found that Fotia gorget/belt out performed any MAB in those slots. Too bad pld can't use Martial Dagger. That thing is unreal for Aeolian Edge.

It looks like a lot of fun doing this, I may have to try it out someday.
 
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 Bahamut.Eorphere
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By Bahamut.Eorphere 2018-10-09 12:15:58
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Odin.Horu said: »
You should try reading everyones post, some congratulated you, some asked for advice on gear,a few mentioned frame rate which has nothing to do with epeen, then they mentioned which server you were on and such, along with posting another video about how it can be done (Whether its the same method or not is irrelivent)

Don't take offence to whats not there, I see no reason after reading everyones post to have taken offence and insulting them in the process. Be happy people responded with some mentioning it helped and encouraged them to consider gearing towards it while others doing exactly what you done and offered another options, he may have said

You are right and I apologize to everyone. I reread the comments and they are not nearly as disparaging as It seemed when I first read them.

I think it was the complaints about the frame rate that started the tone and I was probably tired and grouchy. Not an excuse, just reflecting. Sorry everyone that I was reactionary and short-tempered.

as I said, I mostly wanted to share that PLD can supertank Apex, and even w/ just a modest Aeolian Edge Set, its profitable JP.

I'll look into improving frame rate. Frankly I've not really made an effort to make videos. I just turned it on because I thought it would help tell the idea.

my PC is really not working very hard. its kind of annoying that it won't kick in and use my GPU much. I was using DGVoodoo when a good ffxi release was working, but after a week or 2 it started preventing game from loading.

Anyway, not sure what to do for frame rate, I could lower alot of settings, but my fan doesn't even come on as it is. I chalked it up to old game and direct x 9, and haven't really bothered to test it thoroughly.

Eiryl was right that I mainly wanted Bredo in there for MDB down and add some dps. more of a support roll. Though i'm curious how much my Primal Rend/Cloudsplitter set would do if I tried Aeolian edge on Bst/dnc. Shoot, I could have added a significant bit more. Pet alone was doing about 1/2 the damage as PLD. Master could probably match PLD. Not sure. I honestly haven't tested Aoelian Edge on bst since Abyssea was the most recent content.

Also FYI for bst, usuing Familiar w/ bredo makes a very noticable difference in MAcc. It makes the damage much more consistent between 8k~11k instead of wandering around like it sometimes did.

Bats and crabs are not the best targets for Bredo. Pestilent Plume is Darkness. the normal ~10k Damage is reduced to 500~800 range on Bats. but the MDB down seems to stick alright.


and to Senaki's comment of keeping a chain, its not so much, the pulls take enough time to break the chain, but will you chain pretty much every mob in the pull.

if you used another puller and slept them, while pld establishes hate on them, you could pull in another group of mobs from different direction. Might be able to sustain chain that way. but I didn't take long to get over 100 jp int he example above.

Awesome person here to admit fault. I see that so seldom these days [and not only on this site, LIG (life in general)]. So many excuses/reasons(maybe?): tired while reading, semantics, it was just sarcasm, etc. And even more instances of pride: being stubborn, holier than thou, etc.

Nice to see someone finally own a mistake, apologize, and move on.

Let's all (including me) learn from this individual

EDIT: and inb4 all the Patriots references about Tom Brady's cell phone and Bill Belichick's misinterpreting the rules... I get it, I have moved on :)
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By zaxtiss 2018-10-09 12:34:15
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hmmmm i don't have Ochain but would a priwen do it?
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2018-10-09 12:56:46
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
And my expectation was that it would prompt questions about setup, procedure, or gearsets and there could be discussion of such.
Don't worry.

Regarding your casting sets, I'm not sure how accurate equipviewer is but I didn't see you use much SIRD, were you fully trusting blocking to take care of it when casting any and all spells?

Another question regarding Phalanx, is there a minimum you'd advise? Of course it's better to have more/everything capped, but in order to be able to start doing this and be viable, what is the minimum +Phalanx needed in gear? I'm saying this because some augments have given me nightmares in the past when it comes to Phalanx, so if I could shoot for the minimum to begin with.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-10-09 13:04:04
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I'm a really embarrassed to admit this, but I missed a big opportunity to help w/ that cleave on bst last night.

I didn't use Killer Instinct at all.

Avian > Aquan > Amorph > Avian

So I missed out on giving PLD a 15% boost in Damage to the bats. AND 15% reduction in Damage taken. which would be pretty miniscule since he's taking so little damage already, but still... ack, this is exactly the situation where the intimidation rate of Killer effects shines.

I tested Aeolian Edge w/ my Primal Rend set, and damage is similar to PLD in video.... minus the Killer instinct bonus still ;.;

Anyway, I should have been doing 2/3 the damage instead of 1/3 the damage, and the video should have been 4 min instead of 7.
 Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor
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By Quetzalcoatl.Haxxor 2018-10-09 13:10:55
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You guys are beaten, by several years. This has been a thing since forever.
YouTube Video Placeholder

pre-apex
Glad you're having fun though :)
 Quetzalcoatl.Chanceikin
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By Quetzalcoatl.Chanceikin 2018-10-09 13:23:29
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I mean if you completely ignore that were talking about apex, which is literally in the title of the post, than yea.
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