TH Not Applied With Steal

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TH not applied with steal
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 05:27:11
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i was under the impression that TH would be applied by any action targeting a mob directly E.g. steal.

a recent quick test of popping the NM and using steel with TH gera and then Attacking it in DD gear showed a TH procs of 4 (aka 3 was applied) so using steal with TH gear did not apply it.

i did the same test with Bully but never saw any TH proces estimating it had applied the full TH from my gaer but no proc because i was fighting in low TH gear.
did this on 8 nm's.

Is there a list or testing of which JA's that can apply TH?
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 07:36:37
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DaneBlood said: »
i was under the impression that TH would be applied by any action targeting a mob directly E.g. steal.

a recent quick test of popping the NM and using steel with TH gera and then Attacking it in DD gear showed a TH procs of 4 (aka 3 was applied) so using steal with TH gear did not apply it.

i did the same test with Bully but never saw any TH proces estimating it had applied the full TH from my gaer but no proc because i was fighting in low TH gear.
did this on 8 nm's.

Is there a list or testing of which JA's that can apply TH?
I dano ever heard of a place called bg Wiki? This tells you what affects TH.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Treasure_Hunter
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 07:40:14
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
I dano ever heard of a place called bg Wiki? This tells you what affects TH.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Treasure_Hunter

Except its not answering my question.

"the player with Treasure Hunter must take some aggressive action against the mob in order to apply the Treasure Hunter effect"

Steal is an aggressive action against a mob, but did not apply it.
However it appears Bully did apply it.

Ddi you read my question?
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 07:42:28
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DaneBlood said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
I dano ever heard of a place called bg Wiki? This tells you what affects TH.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Treasure_Hunter

Except its not answering my question.

"the player with Treasure Hunter must take some aggressive action against the mob in order to apply the Treasure Hunter effect"

Steel is an aggressive action against a mob, but did not apply it.
“Steal” is not entirely aggressive hence you can steal on a mob while fighting and it can simply ignore the action. Meaning 0 reactions.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 07:48:15
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DaneBlood said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
I dano ever heard of a place called bg Wiki? This tells you what affects TH.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Treasure_Hunter

Except its not answering my question.

"the player with Treasure Hunter must take some aggressive action against the mob in order to apply the Treasure Hunter effect"

Steal is an aggressive action against a mob, but did not apply it.
However it appears Bully did apply it.

Ddi you read my question?
Do not understand what “ddi” is but a simple search of steal even states that it’s mainly used for stealing items and with the aura steal trait added spells stats etc. 0 to do with TH but actually searching for this info would tell you that.
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 07:55:33
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
“Steal” is not entirely aggressive hence you can steal on a mob while fighting and it can simply ignore the action. Meaning 0 reactions.

GDI you caught my typo before I corrected it.
Anyway.
I assumed Steal would be categorized as aggressive since it builds enmity, and I cant on top of my head remember if you can claim a mob with steal. (I know you can with bully)
I'm simply trying to narrow down what part makes a JA categorized as "aggressive" for TH to apply.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 08:07:05
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DaneBlood said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
“Steal” is not entirely aggressive hence you can steal on a mob while fighting and it can simply ignore the action. Meaning 0 reactions.

GDI you caught my typo before I corrected it.
Anyway.
I assumed Steal would be categorized as aggressive since it builds enmity, and I cant on top of my head remember if you can claim a mob with steal. (I know you can with bully)
I'm simply trying to narrow down what part makes a JA categorized as "aggressive" for TH to apply.
Steal is not on the list of abilities that can generate enmity it seems. So no it does not.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Enmity
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 08:08:58
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
Do not understand what “ddi” is but a simple search of steal even states that it’s mainly used for stealing items and with the aura steal trait added spells stats etc. 0 to do with TH but actually searching for this info would tell you that.

And bully is mainly done to apply a debuff also nothing to do with TH yet it appears to be working to apply TH.

Please tell me where I can see why one JA works and not the other. Because so far, despite your superiority attitude, you have not answered the Question at all.
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 08:10:29
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
Steal is not on the list of abilities that can generate enmity it seems. So no it does not.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Enmity

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Steal
Stated it does.

So should I assume the list on bgwiki is omniscient or could it be that it simply not complete?

Also your list does not state Bully what apparently does as "aggressive". So the list is not explaining the difference either.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 08:13:44
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DaneBlood said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
Do not understand what “ddi” is but a simple search of steal even states that it’s mainly used for stealing items and with the aura steal trait added spells stats etc. 0 to do with TH but actually searching for this info would tell you that.

And bully is mainly done to apply a debuff also nothing to do with TH yet it appears to be working to apply TH.

Please tell me where I can see why one JA works and not the other. Because so far, despite your superiority attitude, you have not answered the Question at all.
You can’t read between the lines. This Q and A with Matsui seems to also point out enmity since you stated steal can build enmity is 1 CE. 1 CE is less then .50 percent compared to a regular hit which basically means extremely low chance to affect enmity towards TH. Some interesting things about enmity.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 08:20:42
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
You can’t read between the lines. This Q and A with Matsui seems to also point out enmity since you stated steal can build enmity is 1 CE. 1 CE is less then .50 percent compared to a regular hit which basically means extremely low chance to affect enmity towards TH. Some interesting things about enmity.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments

I don't see anything that would explain one ja over the other clearly.

- You say it was on wiki. it was not
- You give at least of enmity that was irrelevant
- Now a link to something that tells about how enmity is increasing/decreasing yet nothing to do with when a ja would apply TH
Are you trying to say that 1 enmity actions do not apply TH?
Cause we know that also incorrect as 1dmg swing does apply it


If you don't have the answer that's fair.
But now it just looks like you are trying more and more to save face from coming off smug and then realize you did not have the correct answer.

If you can a clarify what I am supposed to "read between the lines" that would be nice.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 08:20:58
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DaneBlood said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
Steal is not on the list of abilities that can generate enmity it seems. So no it does not.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Enmity

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Steal
Stated it does.

So should I assume the list on bgwiki is omniscient or could it be that it simply not complete?

Also your list does not state Bully what apparently does as "aggressive". So the list is not explaining the difference either.
Says nothing about it generating enmity on that link for steal just what enhances it so incorrect. I think you’re focusing way too much with steal. Plus when they added the proc system it shows you what level your TH is abs rising to. Steal has never done that let alone reacted like that per an example of a regular hit does or a crit or a sneak attack move. Bully also after using it does not show a TH proc. So it’s safe to assume they have 0 affect. At this point easiest way to get a “list” is to ask from the horses mouth. Square Enix because the question you have has been answered in links the opposite of what you’re looking for.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 08:23:26
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Too bad I never said these things you are getting offended by the truth. Yes that link you provided from wiki pedia has nothing to do with mentioning steal can generate enmity. All it listed was gear the job name and the macro. Also it pointed out TP can be stolen read the link.
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 08:25:16
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
Says nothing about it generating enmity on that link for steal just what enhances it so incorrect. I think you’re focusing way too much with steal. Plus when they added the proc system it shows you what level your TH is abs rising to. Steal has never done that let alone reacted like that per an example of a regular hit does or a crit or a sneak attack move. Bully also after using it does not show a TH proc. So it’s safe to assume they have 0 affect. At this point easiest way to get a “list” is to ask from the horses mouth. Square Enix because the question you have has been answered in links the opposite of what you’re looking for.


"Adds a small amount of enmity to the user."
4th bullet

So you did not know the answer to why steal did not work but bully does?
Thank you for your effort then I will see if somebody else can enlighten on the difference.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 08:27:12
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DaneBlood said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
Says nothing about it generating enmity on that link for steal just what enhances it so incorrect. I think you’re focusing way too much with steal. Plus when they added the proc system it shows you what level your TH is abs rising to. Steal has never done that let alone reacted like that per an example of a regular hit does or a crit or a sneak attack move. Bully also after using it does not show a TH proc. So it’s safe to assume they have 0 affect. At this point easiest way to get a “list” is to ask from the horses mouth. Square Enix because the question you have has been answered in links the opposite of what you’re looking for.


"Adds a small amount of enmity to the user."
4th bullet

So you did not know the answer to why steal did not work but bully does?
There is no fourth bullet the link you posted said this.

Job Ability

Steal items from enemy.
Obtained: Thief Level 5
Recast Time: 5:00
Duration: Instant
Notes/Description
Macro Syntax

/ja "Steal" <t>
Equipment that Enhances this Trait

Equipment Level Type Enhancement Obtained
Rabbit Charm 7 Neck Steal+1 NM: Jaggedy-Eared Jack
Key Ring Belt 20 Waist Steal+1 Quest: Bait and Switch
Rogue's Ring 50 Ring Latent Effect: Steal+3 BCNM: Treasure and Tribulations, Hostile Herbivores
Rogue's Armlets 52 Hands Steal+1 Quest: Borghertz's Sneaky Hands
Rogue's Bonnet 54 Head Steal+1 Quest: As Thick as Thieves
Rogue's Culottes 56 Legs Steal+1 Treasure Coffer: Castle Oztroja
Rogue's Poulaines 60 Feet Steal+2 Quest: Hitting the Marquisate
Rogue's Poulaines +1 74 Feet Steal+2 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
Thief's Kote 70 Hands Steal+3 NM: Tonberry Tracker
Bartholomew's Knife 71 Dagger Steal+2 Trade Buccaneer's Knife to ??? in Ve'Lugannon Palace
Rogue's Armlets +1 74 Hands Steal+1 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
Assassin's Culottes 74 Legs Steal+5 Dynamis - Beaucedine
Dynamis - Tavnazia

Assassin's Culottes +1 75 Legs Steal+5 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
As a result, the maximum Steal enhancement that a Thief can receive is a constant Steal+15, or Steal+18 with Rogue's Ring, active only with less than 75% HP and less than 100% TP.

Minus the ads your link stated nothing about steal generating enmity.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 08:30:11
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DaneBlood said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
Says nothing about it generating enmity on that link for steal just what enhances it so incorrect. I think you’re focusing way too much with steal. Plus when they added the proc system it shows you what level your TH is abs rising to. Steal has never done that let alone reacted like that per an example of a regular hit does or a crit or a sneak attack move. Bully also after using it does not show a TH proc. So it’s safe to assume they have 0 affect. At this point easiest way to get a “list” is to ask from the horses mouth. Square Enix because the question you have has been answered in links the opposite of what you’re looking for.


"Adds a small amount of enmity to the user."
4th bullet

So you did not know the answer to why steal did not work but bully does?
Thank you for your effort then I will see if somebody else can enlighten on the difference.
Its not anyone’s fault you can’t read the examples given by steal bg wiki nor bg wiki enmity. You just want things shown in a way that is not possible. Easy way again for what you’re asking is SE at this point. If you don’t know how to search that just go to their forums :).
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By Cerberus.Boogs 2018-07-02 08:34:28
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How much TH did you have on gear and traits? The way I understand it is that any action on a mob will apply your base TH level and only melee attack can proc higher levels. So say you have a total of +3 TH in gear and traits then by acting on a mob you set the mob’s base TH level to 3 (as opposed to 0 with no TH). Then upon heavy damage attacks (sneak attack for example) you have a chance of leveling up TH to the next level. So non-damaging actions like steal will never show a proc message but it will set your base TH level.
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By Odin.Spoiled 2018-07-02 08:40:24
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It says right on ffxiclopedia, Steal generates a small amount of enmity. What Boogs said is correct, it is important to know how much TH you had on when you used steal.
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By Jetackuu 2018-07-02 08:42:41
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DaneBlood said: »
you did not have the correct answer.

Just pointing out the obvious here, if you had to ask a question then you do not know the answer. Maybe try to listen.
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 08:45:14
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Cerberus.Boogs said: »
How much TH did you have on gear and traits? The way I understand it is that any action on a mob will apply your base TH level and only melee attack can proc higher levels. So say you have a total of +3 TH in gear and traits then by acting on a mob you set the mob’s base TH level to 3 (as opposed to 0 with no TH). Then upon heavy damage attacks (sneak attack for example) you have a chance of leveling up TH to the next level. So non-damaging actions like steal will never show a proc message but it will set your base TH level.

- I did steal with TH +4 gear (Total 7).
- Then swaped into melee gear and TP'ed on the mob.
- TH4 proc came in log.

- next mob I full timed all my TH gear for a TH +5 (total 8)
- I saw a 9 proc

Third testing I did a few times
- Bully the mob with TH +5 gear (total 8)
- tp without TH gear and never saw a proc

I assume (emphasis on assuming) the lack of proc with Bully testing was because the low native TH3 simply never procc'ed due to the mob having TH8 on it already.
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2018-07-02 08:47:03
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Any action performed offensively generates at least 1 enmity. Any offensive action applies TH

BG has Steal at 1/300 and something like Libra at 0/0
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-07-02 08:52:08
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Everyone's jumping on this guy, when he actually observed something that seems to have not been documented. Whether it's true or not remains to be verified, but if you take him at his word he's providing new and potentially useful information(not all enmity-generating actions apply treasure hunter).

Don't know why DrakenV is even in this thread, clearly knows nothing of mechanics. Any knowledgable player would have considered steal to be an enmity-generating ability and thus, apply TH. The link to enmity page just illustrates abilities that effect your rate of enmity gain. Almost anything you do will generate enmity on it's own, however minimal it may be.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 08:58:24
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Everyone's jumping on this guy, when he actually observed something that seems to have not been documented. Whether it's true or not remains to be verified, but if you take him at his word he's providing new and potentially useful information(not all enmity-generating actions apply treasure hunter).

Don't know why DrakenV is even in this thread, clearly knows nothing of mechanics. Any knowledgable player would have considered steal to be an enmity-generating ability and thus, apply TH. The link to enmity page just illustrates abilities that effect your rate of enmity gain. Almost anything you do will generate enmity on it's own, however minimal it may be.
I said 1 CE of enmity for someone that knows everything and anything of ff11 you should know what 1 CE is towards enmity gain. You’re silly. Then again at the end of the day steal is still a very small percentage for TH gain. There are no hard mechanics for TH gain sneak attack TH gear proc read the log the end.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-07-02 09:01:01
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
I said 1 CE of enmity for someone that knows everything and anything of ff11 you should know what 1 CE is towards enmity gain. You’re silly. Then again at the end of the day steal is still a very small percentage for TH gain. There are no hard mechanics for TH gain sneak attack TH gear proc read the log the end.

He was talking about initially applying TH, not upgrading it. I assume you at least know the difference between the two.

By using steal, he is touching the mob with TH+7. Afterwards, he claimed that using melee rounds with TH3 upgraded to TH4. This means that if he is not lying or mistaken about his test conditions, steal does not apply TH.

The amount of enmity has no bearing here, people use sleepga/horde lullaby/diaga to apply TH in aoe situations and assume it to work.

Throwing in an illegible sentence and 'the end' doesn't make you appear any less confused or wrong. These mechanics being outside your mental reach does not mean they aren't well understood by a large portion of the playerbase.
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 09:08:02
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
I said 1 CE of enmity for someone that knows everything and anything of ff11 you should know what 1 CE is towards enmity gain. You’re silly. Then again at the end of the day steal is still a very small percentage for TH gain. There are no hard mechanics for TH gain sneak attack TH gear proc read the log the end.

He was talking about initially applying TH, not upgrading it. I assume you at least know the difference between the two.

By using steal, he is touching the mob with TH+7. Afterwards, he claimed that using melee rounds with TH3 upgraded to TH4. This means that if he is not lying or mistaken about his test conditions, steal does not apply TH.

The amount of enmity has no bearing here, people use sleepga/horde lullaby/diaga to apply TH in aoe situations and assume it to work.

Throwing in an illegible sentence and 'the end' doesn't make you appear any less confused or wrong. These mechanics being outside your mental reach does not mean they aren't well understood by a large portion of the playerbase.
Lol I’m just here to get TH done not steal and wait to count how much it does towards my TH. Not once did I say I was right cumatmebro I was pointing out what was out there let alone the link provided about steal that supposedly stated it generated enmity did not. (Even though if you read I said it did 1 CE)Posted the whole link on that. Spoiled found on that site it does state that but again not on that link.
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 09:10:00
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
Says nothing about it generating enmity on that link for steal just what enhances it so incorrect. I think you’re focusing way too much with steal. Plus when they added the proc system it shows you what level your TH is abs rising to. Steal has never done that let alone reacted like that per an example of a regular hit does or a crit or a sneak attack move. Bully also after using it does not show a TH proc. So it’s safe to assume they have 0 affect. At this point easiest way to get a “list” is to ask from the horses mouth. Square Enix because the question you have has been answered in links the opposite of what you’re looking for.


"Adds a small amount of enmity to the user."
4th bullet

So you did not know the answer to why steal did not work but bully does?[/quote]
There is no fourth bullet the link you posted said this.

Job Ability

Steal items from enemy.
Obtained: Thief Level 5
Recast Time: 5:00
Duration: Instant
Notes/Description
Macro Syntax

/ja "Steal" <t>
Equipment that Enhances this Trait

Equipment Level Type Enhancement Obtained
Rabbit Charm 7 Neck Steal+1 NM: Jaggedy-Eared Jack
Key Ring Belt 20 Waist Steal+1 Quest: Bait and Switch
Rogue's Ring 50 Ring Latent Effect: Steal+3 BCNM: Treasure and Tribulations, Hostile Herbivores
Rogue's Armlets 52 Hands Steal+1 Quest: Borghertz's Sneaky Hands
Rogue's Bonnet 54 Head Steal+1 Quest: As Thick as Thieves
Rogue's Culottes 56 Legs Steal+1 Treasure Coffer: Castle Oztroja
Rogue's Poulaines 60 Feet Steal+2 Quest: Hitting the Marquisate
Rogue's Poulaines +1 74 Feet Steal+2 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
Thief's Kote 70 Hands Steal+3 NM: Tonberry Tracker
Bartholomew's Knife 71 Dagger Steal+2 Trade Buccaneer's Knife to ??? in Ve'Lugannon Palace
Rogue's Armlets +1 74 Hands Steal+1 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
Assassin's Culottes 74 Legs Steal+5 Dynamis - Beaucedine
Dynamis - Tavnazia

Assassin's Culottes +1 75 Legs Steal+5 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
As a result, the maximum Steal enhancement that a Thief can receive is a constant Steal+15, or Steal+18 with Rogue's Ring, active only with less than 75% HP and less than 100% TP.

Minus the ads your link stated nothing about steal generating enmity.[/quote]

Maybe this can help locate it. i see it clearly.

Maybe your browser or plugins are blocking part of the page
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-07-02 09:13:07
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DaneBlood said: »
Odin.Drakenv said: »
Says nothing about it generating enmity on that link for steal just what enhances it so incorrect. I think you’re focusing way too much with steal. Plus when they added the proc system it shows you what level your TH is abs rising to. Steal has never done that let alone reacted like that per an example of a regular hit does or a crit or a sneak attack move. Bully also after using it does not show a TH proc. So it’s safe to assume they have 0 affect. At this point easiest way to get a “list” is to ask from the horses mouth. Square Enix because the question you have has been answered in links the opposite of what you’re looking for.


"Adds a small amount of enmity to the user."
4th bullet

So you did not know the answer to why steal did not work but bully does?
There is no fourth bullet the link you posted said this.

Job Ability

Steal items from enemy.
Obtained: Thief Level 5
Recast Time: 5:00
Duration: Instant
Notes/Description
Macro Syntax

/ja "Steal" <t>
Equipment that Enhances this Trait

Equipment Level Type Enhancement Obtained
Rabbit Charm 7 Neck Steal+1 NM: Jaggedy-Eared Jack
Key Ring Belt 20 Waist Steal+1 Quest: Bait and Switch
Rogue's Ring 50 Ring Latent Effect: Steal+3 BCNM: Treasure and Tribulations, Hostile Herbivores
Rogue's Armlets 52 Hands Steal+1 Quest: Borghertz's Sneaky Hands
Rogue's Bonnet 54 Head Steal+1 Quest: As Thick as Thieves
Rogue's Culottes 56 Legs Steal+1 Treasure Coffer: Castle Oztroja
Rogue's Poulaines 60 Feet Steal+2 Quest: Hitting the Marquisate
Rogue's Poulaines +1 74 Feet Steal+2 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
Thief's Kote 70 Hands Steal+3 NM: Tonberry Tracker
Bartholomew's Knife 71 Dagger Steal+2 Trade Buccaneer's Knife to ??? in Ve'Lugannon Palace
Rogue's Armlets +1 74 Hands Steal+1 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
Assassin's Culottes 74 Legs Steal+5 Dynamis - Beaucedine
Dynamis - Tavnazia

Assassin's Culottes +1 75 Legs Steal+5 Sagheera in Port Jeuno
As a result, the maximum Steal enhancement that a Thief can receive is a constant Steal+15, or Steal+18 with Rogue's Ring, active only with less than 75% HP and less than 100% TP.

Minus the ads your link stated nothing about steal generating enmity.[/quote]

Maybe this can help locate it. i see it clearly.

Maybe your browser or plugins are blocking part of the page[/quote]
;0!!!!!!!!! Forever never using this browser! Thank you for showing me this. You win on that note :bow: I admit fault for my browser not showing this :).
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 09:22:39
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Odin.Drakenv said: »
;0!!!!!!!!! Forever never using this browser! Thank you for showing me this. You win on that note :bow: I admit fault for my browser not showing this :).



I don't follow your winning mentality.
Maybe that's why you were trying to come of as superioer in the beginning?

The only winning I see from this thread is either:
A: I learn something new and can adjust my play to it.
or
B: Something new gets discovered and multiple ppl can benefit from it.
[+]
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By DaneBlood 2018-07-02 09:32:24
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Asura.Carrotchan said: »
Any action performed offensively generates at least 1 enmity. Any offensive action applies TH

BG has Steal at 1/300 and something like Libra at 0/0

That was my orignal Belief as well.
But it seams from what I did yesterday that steal does not apply TH.

Now it could be due to numbers stupid things, but im curios as to why.
- If you cant steal an item, steal does not take an affect/emnity?

I dont know
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