Ptero Mail Wyvern HP Jump Swaps

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Ptero Mail Wyvern HP Jump Swaps
 Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2018-06-12 11:16:11
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Herro! I've recently got back to the game after leaving in 2013. Still playing catchup on game, windower, and everything else. I used to be fairly fluent with spellcast and starting to look into gearswap and have a question.

The Ptero mail +2/3 adds wyvern HP to jumps, but a few posts I've seen say you wyvern HP gear swapped in for the jump is to slow and wont work for the bonus. Does gearswap have a way to handle this properly?

I remember from years ago that wyvern % hp was always a delayed reaction for healing breaths, but that flat +HP gear was fine. So I'm not surprised %HP items wont work, but can gearswap handle flat HP items?

Thanks!
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-06-12 11:31:06
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I think you'd have to TP in the WHP for it to work on the jumps. Interestingly this means you could jump in non WHP gear, and still get the WHP effect, since the WHP is slow to update. <,< But screwing over your TP set for the sake of jump dmg wouldn't be worth it.

I've heard that bit about WHP+ behaving differently that WHP+%, but never really saw it to be the case. That said, Ptero+2/3 body would be a hell of a lot better for testing that than HB. But I've yet to do any namisD as DRG, so that will get to be someone else project.

As for what gearswap can do... Well, you could set it to equip the gear then wait a few seconds before activating the jump. But I think that's a terrible idea for actual combat. Other than that, I don't think there's really anything GS can do about this, unless Byrth wants to chime in with some amazing packet wizardry that forces and instant WHP update.(doubtful)

And finally, I have some doubts that the WHP gear is even worth it from a DPS perspective even if it did kick in instantly. Ptero body+3 is all of 2~3 dps(that's literally 2 to 3 dps, not 2~3%.) ahead of Vishap+3 for spirit jump(and is behind for soul jump) And that's adding like 2.3k jump dmg default. It's pretty questionable if any piece of WHP gear would add enough direct dmg to overpower the STP/multi-hit gear available in that slot.
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 Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2018-06-12 11:55:29
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Thanks. Ive read that gearswap has made some improvements over the old spellcast for instant abilities. I was hoping that some of that good background wizardry would apply to situations like this.

As a side note, I made a Ryu back in like 2011 or something when it was the bees knees and return to find its pretty meh. But im a filthy casual now, so Ill stick with it because I love it. Long story short, I suspect the +damage effect will work better for a LolRyu drg than the multi hit options watering down my AM3. I'm a long way off from actually getting any of this as I just reached the final fight in Rhapsodies last night lol. But starting to think ahead a bit.
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By zaxtiss 2018-06-12 11:58:20
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you still on lakshmi right?
have you picked up a LS?
 Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2018-06-12 12:08:51
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zaxtiss said: »
you still on lakshmi right?
have you picked up a LS?
Yup still good ol Lakshmi.

Only 1 of my LS is still alive. To my surprise, I logged in and my old endgame LS is still around and kickin, but I'm so behind I cant actually participate in anything. Just been puttering around solo with the missions and whatnot. Was all going dandy till I ran into cloud of darkness and me+Trust squad got utterly demolished lol. It's so strange to return to a game you used to be S class and back to being a toddler again.
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By Asura.Valguard 2018-06-12 12:27:24
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Lakshmi.Aanalaty said: »
It's so strange to return to a game you used to be S class and back to being a toddler again.

Ha. This is exactly how I felt a few years ago. I didn't play from like 2012-2015. iLvl gear wasn't a thing when I quit. A lot has changed! Welcome back.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-06-12 12:57:33
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Lakshmi.Aanalaty said: »
Thanks. Ive read that gearswap has made some improvements over the old spellcast for instant abilities. I was hoping that some of that good background wizardry would apply to situations like this.

As a side note, I made a Ryu back in like 2011 or something when it was the bees knees and return to find its pretty meh. But im a filthy casual now, so Ill stick with it because I love it. Long story short, I suspect the +damage effect will work better for a LolRyu drg than the multi hit options watering down my AM3. I'm a long way off from actually getting any of this as I just reached the final fight in Rhapsodies last night lol. But starting to think ahead a bit.
I wouldn't think Ryu AM3 would have any particular synergy with Ptero+3 Jump effct.

Darcain's testing of the +2 body states
Bismarck.Darcain said: »
It does not proc multiple times for a multi-hit jump.
Bismarck.Darcain said: »
If first hit misses the effect wont land,
That being said, I'm getting Ptero+3 as about 7 DPS over Vishap+3 on Spirit jump for Ryu.(1 DPS gain for soul jump) And I'm not really sure why ryu would benefit more from this than Trishula... /shrug. <,<

So, you appear to have suspected correctly, I just have no idea why..
Disclaimer: I literally just changed weps in the sheet from Trish>Ryu then compared the jump bodies. Results may vary when using correctly Ryu spec'd sets.

EDIT:Looking over Darcain's testing again, he also states that neither WHP+ or WHP%+ changes fast enough to proc on the jump when swapped in when the jump is used.
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By Carbuncle.Stiltz 2018-06-12 13:08:53
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Asura.Patriclis said: »
I am going to write something that might do the trick.
Spoiler: It's probably somewhere between wait 1 and wait 2.

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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-06-12 13:47:12
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Carbuncle.Stiltz said: »
Asura.Patriclis said: »
I am going to write something that might do the trick.
Spoiler: It's probably somewhere between wait 1 and wait 2.


Lmao I was just about to post that the vanilla macro can easily do this probably at /wait 1.5. You probably lose one multi attack swing dps at most and you gain it back with the jump probably. I hardly see this making a difference but I'm making the body and the macro anyways. Don't need a script to automate a very basic feature
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-06-12 13:49:29
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Vanilla FFXI macros don't support decimal wait wait values. So you can't actually do a wait 1.5.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-06-12 13:50:38
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They do, actually. Wait 1.5 works

Edit: unless they changed it back is certain it works. Could be rounded and I never counted though
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-06-12 14:01:34
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I've tested decimal waits in the FFXI macro system before. And they didn't work. Test 1, test 2

However, I note that my tests were for test values lower than 1. 0.5, 0.9 etc. And I did not specifically test a 1.x value. So while my tests imply that it's unlikely that a 1.5 wait works at an actual 1.5 second delay, they don't actually exclude the possibility.

I'll retest when I get home.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-06-12 14:05:57
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I've heard people say that it works but it could be rounding. Interestingly, if you try wait .5 in between two macro lines on vanilla, the macro fails to execute, so it either rounds down, doesn't work, or the delay is too short for both the activate. However, doing wait 1.5 does not fall and the macro operates the same. Again, it might just be rounding, but I have had a few macros that have decimal in it and they never fail. I'm probably not really getting that half second in practice though, never counted
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-06-12 14:15:42
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I would suspect it works like SMN pets used to, and the stats are calculated every 3 second tick at the same time regen/refresh effects are applied. If this is the case, no static wait under 3 seconds will guarantee wyvern stats get updated.
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By Carbuncle.Stiltz 2018-06-12 14:22:45
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Interestingly, if you try wait .5 in between two macro lines on vanilla, the macro fails to execute, so it either rounds down, doesn't work, or the delay is too short for both the activate.
wait .5 is too short, the console operates on a minimum of at least a 1 second global cooldown for most commands.
Two line macros don't require rocket science, folks.

Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
If this is the case, no static wait under 3 seconds will guarantee wyvern stats get updated.
It's Probably <Wait2or3>: The Post
This would take less than five minutes for me to test and give everyone a solid answer and a working macro if I wasn't dirt poor and had the chest already.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-06-12 15:33:19
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If the wait is 3 seconds, I'm not sure it's worth it to equip gear worth 600~900 dmg? Meh, it's about dps not chunk damage.
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 Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2018-06-12 16:25:25
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Lakshmi.Aanalaty said: »
Thanks. Ive read that gearswap has made some improvements over the old spellcast for instant abilities. I was hoping that some of that good background wizardry would apply to situations like this.

As a side note, I made a Ryu back in like 2011 or something when it was the bees knees and return to find its pretty meh. But im a filthy casual now, so Ill stick with it because I love it. Long story short, I suspect the +damage effect will work better for a LolRyu drg than the multi hit options watering down my AM3. I'm a long way off from actually getting any of this as I just reached the final fight in Rhapsodies last night lol. But starting to think ahead a bit.
I wouldn't think Ryu AM3 would have any particular synergy with Ptero+3 Jump effct.

Darcain's testing of the +2 body states
Bismarck.Darcain said: »
It does not proc multiple times for a multi-hit jump.
Bismarck.Darcain said: »
If first hit misses the effect wont land,
That being said, I'm getting Ptero+3 as about 7 DPS over Vishap+3 on Spirit jump for Ryu.(1 DPS gain for soul jump) And I'm not really sure why ryu would benefit more from this than Trishula... /shrug. <,<

So, you appear to have suspected correctly, I just have no idea why..
Disclaimer: I literally just changed weps in the sheet from Trish>Ryu then compared the jump bodies. Results may vary when using correctly Ryu spec'd sets.

EDIT:Looking over Darcain's testing again, he also states that neither WHP+ or WHP%+ changes fast enough to proc on the jump when swapped in when the jump is used.

Lol Im glad glad I didn't loose everything over 5 years. My math gut still works even if I forget half the formulas and lost all my homebrew spreadsheets haha.

The way lower base damage is probably why. +flat damage is a larger % bonus on LolRyu base damage than on say a trish. The multi hit gear (since you changed nothing) just washed out with the AM3 effect. But it might go down a smidge if you make a Ryu specific set with less multi hit and more power to shrink the add effect impact a bit, but probably wont completely undo the benefit.

But if the wyvern HP has to be worn for multiple seconds then F it. Will probably not ever be worth it. Just jerryrigging wait's isn't what I was hoping for. I was hoping gearswap had some packet/background/speed improvements that helped.

However your reverse thought is interesting. If any wyvern HP gear is worth TPing in, then you could get the effect while swapping it. Unfortunately I have long lost my encyclopedic knowledge of gear so I have no idea if there are any wyvern HP gear that would be good to TP in. But there might be more wiggle room for Ryu drg since you wouldn't be gearing to the teeth in multi hit gear with AM up opening up some room for other stats. Kinda a long shot, but I don't know the gear options well enough to shoot it down outright.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-06-12 16:52:03
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There is no wyvern: HP+ gear worth TPing in.

Updraft loses heavily to Brigantia
AF+3 Legs are WS only; loses to everything with MA/STP
Despair Gaintlets are trash
Relic+3 Feet || ||
No point in using Chanoix's Gorget or Anastasi either, there's better.
Emicho Body+1 (Path D) is the only halfway reasonable wyvern HP+ item to melee in, but you'd be using Relic+3 body anyways, so that's a wash.

Literally no reason to ever TP in that gear. This was overall a bad piece to add and probably not worth gearing pet:hp for. Perhaps if there was a scenario where you could get 9999 pet HP from some source, then yes it would be nice damage bonus. I'd just equip the body+3 and be done with it, if that's even worth the bonus. Probably stick with Valorous/Vishap
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By Squabble 2018-06-12 17:11:05
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Welcome back, Aanalaty.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-06-12 17:45:07
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the hp damage on the jumps aren't amazing anyways
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By Ragnarok.Casey 2018-06-12 19:46:07
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I would suspect it works like SMN pets used to, and the stats are calculated every 3 second tick at the same time regen/refresh effects are applied. If this is the case, no static wait under 3 seconds will guarantee wyvern stats get updated.
Bingo. For all the years I soloed on DRG/mage you could watch the HP bar increase when you swapped gear sometimes seemingly ages later. The reason it worked well enough was because of the charge time that Healing Breath and your casting takes.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-06-12 22:06:45
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So regarding decimal waits in marcos with values greater that 1.x.

I'm going to quote part my prior test to cover the test methods.
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Test methods differ somewhat from last time. I will be using lua via gearswap and the os.clock() function to check the time. This is very precise compared to my prior timestamp based test.

The involved code:
Code
	if command == 'test' then
		timeStart = os.clock()
		message('Start:'..timeStart..'')
	end
	if command == 'test2' then	
		timeEnd = os.clock()
		timeSeconds = timeEnd-timeStart	
		message('End:'..timeEnd..' delay:Secs '..timeSeconds..'')
	end

Test 1. Measure the base delay of going from one macro line to the next.
Macro structure.
Code
/con gs c test
/con gs c test2
So I'm using two gearswap commands that. One to store the start time, and another to take the end time and calculate and report the delay

There's a few other points covered in the original post for those interested. Such as testing the default delay in going from one macro line to the next( 0.03~ secs) and confirming that a <wait x> command will work when placed after /con in a macro(it does. )

Now, first a control test. Added a <wait 1> to the test macro. Log data.
Code
[21:25:14]Start:98579.609
[21:25:15]End:98580.64 delay:Secs 1.0310000000027
[21:25:16]Start:98581.466
[21:25:17]End:98582.499 delay:Secs 1.0329999999958
[21:25:18]Start:98583.296
[21:25:19]End:98584.334 delay:Secs 1.0380000000005
[21:25:20]Start:98585.238
[21:25:21]End:98586.301 delay:Secs 1.0630000000092
[21:25:23]Start:98588.368
[21:25:24]End:98589.435 delay:Secs 1.0669999999955
[21:25:25]Start:98590.192
[21:25:26]End:98591.259 delay:Secs 1.06700000001
[21:25:27]Start:98592.222
[21:25:28]End:98593.288 delay:Secs 1.0660000000062
[21:25:34]Start:98599.843
[21:25:35]End:98600.879 delay:Secs 1.0360000000073
[21:25:36]Start:98601.778
[21:25:37]End:98602.844 delay:Secs 1.0659999999916
[21:25:38]Start:98603.743
[21:25:39]End:98604.809 delay:Secs 1.0659999999916
[21:25:40]Start:98605.811
[21:25:41]End:98606.881 delay:Secs 1.0699999999924
[21:25:44]Start:98609.333
[21:25:45]End:98610.399 delay:Secs 1.0660000000062
Results are about as expected. 1 second + 0.03~0.06 for going from one macro line to the next.

Next up, a <wait 1.5>.


So log data.
Code
[21:34:17]Start:99122.92
[21:34:18]End:99123.985 delay:Secs 1.0650000000023
[21:34:19]Start:99124.675
[21:34:20]End:99125.743 delay:Secs 1.0679999999993
[21:34:21]Start:99126.507
[21:34:22]End:99127.573 delay:Secs 1.0660000000062
[21:34:23]Start:99128.474
[21:34:24]End:99129.515 delay:Secs 1.0409999999974
[21:34:25]Start:99130.366
[21:34:26]End:99131.402 delay:Secs 1.0360000000073
[21:34:27]Start:99132.28
[21:34:28]End:99133.313 delay:Secs 1.0329999999958
[21:34:29]Start:99134.109
[21:34:30]End:99135.17 delay:Secs 1.0610000000015
[21:34:31]Start:99136.029
[21:34:32]End:99137.094 delay:Secs 1.0650000000023
[21:34:32]Start:99137.816
[21:34:33]End:99138.842 delay:Secs 1.025999999998
[21:34:34]Start:99139.703
[21:34:35]End:99140.738 delay:Secs 1.0350000000035
And pictures.

With a 1.5 wait in the macro we're still getting 1.03~1.06 delay. The .5 seems to have been completely ignored.

And that's fairly definitive as I see it. If I've missed something or there's something else about this that should be tested, let me know.

A few other wait related tidbits.

A <wait .5> is rounded up to 1 second.
A <wait 0.5> is rounded down to 0.
/wait .5 and /wait 0.5 are both rounded down to 0.
The above all hold true even if you replace the 5 with a 9.

Although, rather strangely if you do a /wait 0.1 or .1 instead, you get a 0.13~ wait(as opposed to the default 0.06~ for a 3 line macro with the end timer activating on the 3rd line) but doing a /wait 0.2 nets you a 0 again. This does not happen with <wait x> commands. Weird. Doesn't seem to occur with 1.1 or 2.1 waits.
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By Asura.Patriclis 2018-06-13 04:05:20
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Although, rather strangely if you do a /wait 0.1 or .1 instead, you get a 0.13~ wait(as opposed to the default 0.06~ for a 3 line macro with the end timer activating on the 3rd line) but doing a /wait 0.2 nets you a 0 again. This does not happen with <wait x> commands. Weird. Doesn't seem to occur with 1.1 or 2.1 waits.

Would not be surprised if this was intentional for use with fast-cast gear so that vanilla client could have a better chance of competing with windower or something.
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2018-06-13 09:31:45
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Squabble said: »
Welcome back, Aanalaty.
ZOMG old people! Heyo Squabbs!

On topic: If only this existed at 75. Get that free 50HP TPing in homam gambieras. Ah memories.
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