T4 Reisenjima Strategy.

I was in something similar to your position last year. I *** -hate- blm. You know what I hate more than blm though? Not doing anything or failing repeatedly.

Took a week, joined cp parties, muddled through 4/5 merlinic shouts, every second blew, but the end result was worth it.

So ask your people what they hate more, spending ~40 hours mastering and getting passable blms, or never having an aeonic.

You'll will need BLMs to do Zerde so I'm not against it. But I don't think Vinipata with BLMs is necessarily an easy win. Especially if your BLMs are new to the job.

Oh believe me .. we've geared a lot over the past couple of years. We've had to, to get anything done. And for a long time we had too many BLM, we had people fighting over if they could come on it or not. But people move on, we lost a few people last year either to RL or another server. It's not that we're lazy, or assume we can beat all the content and jobs we don't like (hell I'd be on DRK for everything if I could!). We've been caught out pretty much, we managed Teles, figured out Erinys, the sandworm was an easy 1/1, and we get to Vinipata and run into a brick wall.

And my LS members still think we can do it the ranger way, and so do I, but it requires a bit of luck and everyone to be present (we did not have our main bard last night, so it's not always down to not having the jobs .. we need real life to stop getting in the way too), otherwise we have to mix and match and make do. Or look for outside help, which is way harder than you might think on this little server.

We've got a number of players who would join me if I asked, but I'd like us to be able to beat it as a linkshell without outside help. I'm convinced we can do all these T4s with the players we have already, but we may need one or two players to branch out and level jobs they may not necessarily want to, like half of us have already.


Exactly, I think after all our fails our group is willing to gear anything to get this son-of-a-bleep down. Even if it takes us a month to get back to it.

Like Smn's and Geo's and Cor's Oh my!?

So you're looking for the minimum requirements to kill x-NM? At some point, those requirements might surpass what you currently have and what "works" or "applies" to your group. Perhaps you can hire or ask someone to help you, because it sounds like your group might be almost there as far as having a good balanced group for this kind of strategy. But, you can't always skip steps.

It might be easier to find a way to fill these holes in your setups through obtaining/buying gear needed before attempting these fights rather than looking for a niche strategy where 19 level 1 pups can kill it. In the amount of time mulling over a strat that might work, you can pull together your group to farm a LS member on a less needed job a Gjallarhorn and a decent amount of job points and gear. It really doesn't take much. Put together one party of players and do ambuscade for a full day for gil (as an example) and you'll have more than enough to gear a job to a decent level. Maybe it's weird to do something like old dynamis where everyone pools together their efforts for an individual's personal gain that hopefully, in turn, benefit the group. Focus on the deficits of your group rather than perfect those near the peak because the effort required for the amount of gain is usually higher there.

Hopefully this isn't out of line with the discussion, but it seems to me like this might be the best solution for you and I really stand behind what I said in my first paragraph in regards to step-wise progression.

EDIT: Took to long to type and now it seems that I'm beating a dead horse.

One of the issues is .. like me for example, I'll start leveling and gearing RDM, then someone returns who already has RDM, and then someone else joins us who has a way better RDM. So then I'm stuck gearing a job we don't really need .. I could be gearing something we need instead, but I wasn't to know. I really wish you guys wouldn't assume we are a group who are afraid to come on different jobs because ..

.. literally every time I ask any (and I do mean all of them) of our LS members what they want to come on, they always say they will go on anything we need. They don't care what job they play. Over 10 years ago, I didn't want to play anything but DRK and it didn't get me far. I had to grow out of that to run a Dynamis LS, and suddenly found myself on THF 99% of the time. And that was fine, I had fun doing that. I got Corsair up for Delve and other Adoulin content, and I had fun doing that too. I got SCH up so we could do Magic Bursts for Vagary ..

.. despite vowing I would never, ever be a mage. And guess what? I enjoy it. I really don't mind standing back now. And all our LS members are the same, it just so happens that we are not decked out with master BLMs at the moment. I've asked around, and we can definitely bring 2 .. maybe 3 BLM if we sacrificed a RUN. So we only really need 1 or 2 BLM to give the nuking strat a shot. And we'll get there .. like every NM we have beat as a group, we might not be decked out with a billion REMAs, but we still figure out a way to progress. And to make it to T4s without doing a single conduit burn, and not having to pay anyone to merc things for us? I think we've done great, and we'll keep doing it.

When we run into a brick wall like this (happened with Kouryu as well), we'll go away and work on what we need to beat it. So yeah, neither I, or anyone in the LS need to be told "gear up other jobs if you want to win". We already know this, we were already told this way back when I started the old Vagary LS 2-3 years ago. Also the "help other LS members with weak points" comment .. we've been doing Omen and Ambuscade lately. We're always helping each other get better, which is how we got to T4s in the first place. If we never did that .. we'd still be doing Vagary each week, never moving. Never improving.

Having done Vinipata with BLM and RNG recently, I don't think you're going to have an easier time with BLM. You need top notch gear and SPs to do good damage. There is not a lot of room for error. If you haven't won by the time Bolster wears off, you're going to be dead in the water. I think you would be better suited to correct whatever you're doing wrong and retry with RNG. Many groups actually wipe once using this method (after the second set of adds pop) and zombie it with Dia II until they're ready to engage again.

Really encouraging Snaps. We are better suited for a ranger setup, and we were close a few times. Just the small details we need to iron out, and just keep trying til it falls. Thanks

Took a swing at Vini today rng method and just have a few questions.
1) Is a back up tanked needed at all? Brought 2 plds tonight just to be safe. Only got to 60% sadly because brd made a mistake.
2)What buff are being used/how much acc is needed?

Also for everyone who has still done it MB method what does your blm gear look like? I haven't touch my blm much since before the geo nerf and would love to have a reason to actually work on it/use it.

Thanks in advance

A back-up tank isn't necessary, as long as your WHM is really competent. Narakas can pile up debuffs in a hurry, and if your WHM can't keep up, it's likely game over for everybody.

Your buffs/acc/macc requirements will vary depending on the quality of your buffs. Idris/non-Idris, BRD available or not, how many CORs, etc.

In a full, HQ-buffed situation, I'd say 1200-1300 racc standing in your MH is probably enough.

BLM macc requirements are much much higher now, even under full buffs -- your Merlinic probably needs to come close to the macc and INT levels on Ea +1 to reliably land MBs unresisted outside of Bolster.

Albumen

MNKx2 (full kendatsuba with Subtle Blow II +25% and pennance), SMN, GEO, BRD, RUN (outside COR and BRD)

MNKs trade off 100 Fists with Chi Blast Pennance

Full Haste and attack buffs. SMN does 2 Mewing Lullaby.

He doesn't TP once, dead in 1 min.

You can actually defeat any target in the game using a solo MNK, but the technique only works once per target.
Please read below before attempting. Like granted wishes, using this capability can have extreme, unintended and irreversible consequences on your FFXI experience.

Boost and immediately Perfect Counter. Then engage your target. If done correctly, the boosted perfect counter will fold Vana'diel over itself and you will prevent said target from ever existing. You will receive a loot pool, per usual.
Timing is extremely difficult, and with good reason. You may think Boost locks you out from activating Perfect Counter or engaging. Persevere. Such power over the universe does not come immediately or easily.

Do not use on NM placeholders, story bosses or targets that you may want available to farm again in the future.
An example for optimal usage of this technique is deleting the numerous Ascended NMs of Reisenjima, especially the Poroggo and Mantis. I have personally saved at least 2000 silt from no longer needing Mollifiers. So good.
This can also be used in a crowded area to permanently single out a placeholder or timed spawn NM. People often ask me how I am so successful at claiming Gukumatz. Now you know.
Using on a charmed PC will permanently delete their character, but not their gear or inventory. This is the only way to transfer non-delivery boxable goods between toons on a same account--just be sure the next toon in line has inventory space.

I tried to submit this in a bug report on the official forums. Unfortunately, the level of detail required permanently deleted my report, all GMs involved in its investigation and all members of the development team related to MNK, the zone in the report and any other surrounding circumstances.
As a result, we have few GMs and a skeleton development team without knowledge of the broader game or its mechanics. Note the current focus rests primarily on Ambuscade. Even ilvl Dynamis is full of holes, as though critical and common knowledge and expertise are absent. Due to the nature of this technique, those affected cannot be replaced, no one is even capable of remembering anyone that is missing from the project.
I am so sorry.

Can you stop?

You do realize that the below is a joke also, right?


I'm not sure you do...

Edit: It is hilarious to see the "likes" disappear as it dawns on people the above post was satire and not advocacy.

Just use the {JP Button}, and go into the sub menu and select: defeat NM, win!

I'm glad you asked this because my group is going to try this again tomorrow night.

So many things can and will go wrong on Vinipata, and my group has found the following things to be most likely of screwing us:

1) The jumps from Raksha > Yaksha > Raksha > Yaksha makes it difficult on the tank and healer due to the constant dispelling of buffs. Restricting the amount of enfeebles does not mean it will stay in Raksha, so your rangers are going to see a big dip in damage whenever Yaksha is up. Not only that, but the hate reset moves during Yaksha is the main cause of our wipes, the tank has issues keeping hate. If Vini moves and hits the backline with Oblivien, DPS will take a nosedive.

2) The tank gets killed by Raksha Illusion. Not sure why it happens sometimes, but x2 Raksha Illusion during Meikyo has caught our tank off guard. This could be because he's still got debuffs left over from Yaksha, as well as other debuffs from Raksha. It doesn't happen often, but it does sometimes .. usually when we're doing well.

3) Adds get away from each other and the Bard isn't ready for new adds. If the BRD does not have sufficient JAs in hand in case of an emergency, chances are something will go wrong eventually. BRD needs to get Random Deal/Wild Card/Super Revit to always have a sleep (that will land) ready.

4) A really good run can still see a wipe, but on a couple of occasions our zombie player has been too late to react, and Vini has recovered 10-20%, making it fall just out of reach.

5) Two tanks has helped us a little in the beginning of a pop, but not so much later in the fight. Hate from the adds not tied to Vini sheds very easily, so often it feels like (to me) a waste of a spot. The adds tank can easily get hit by Vinipata's other moves, like Doom, and end up on the deck anyways as the WHM is too busy getting rid of the actual tanks doom.

6) Accuracy issues. In the past we've used bard songs, idris geo, and two corsairs (w/ hunters roll) and sometimes during Yaksha its evasion will get ridiculous. I put this down to some of us getting hit with Oblivien, although there may be other factors. We're easily making the accuracy values stated above in Arislan's post. We could pile on even more buffs from mules .. but taking hate is already very easy.

We tried Vini the BLM way too, but without a Rune Fencer tank on hand .. it was a waste of time. We had a pop where we got it to 20% with 4 blms and no Rayke/Gambit. So it's doable that way, but getting 1) A very solid RUN who loves to tank (with ergon preferably), and 2) 4 really well-geared, and master BLMs, isn't always so easy to find online at the same time, at least on my server.

I firmly believe we have the power to kill it with Summoners. We've got enough of those, and it would free up someone to RUN as well (who is usually on RNG or BLM), but I don't know if we want to beat it that way. Conduit burning still requires some good timing and other things, but it would feel like we're giving up trying to beat it without the clearly overpowered strategy. We're still learning, and I'm still willing to hear other's testimonials; as long as the group you ran with was able to beat Vinipata with NO Aeonics, and NO conduit burning. Thanks.

I've seen this too, and I'm not entirely sure what causes it. At the time, I was on GEO, and to fix it in the proper stance, I threw a bunch of buffs on myself, like, all I could, and then ran into range of Vini. It killed me, but it did "fix" its behavior, settling it in the proper stance. It might be buggy, it might be coincidence that it stopped being goofy, or it needs to hit someone with enough buffs and the tank(s) were dispelled/didn't have enough buffs on at the time.

The debuffs can be devastating. It is very important to have a main WHM in range to Sacrifice the main tank regularly, and another WHM further away, but in range of the main WHM, to erase/etc. the main WHM.

A PUP can serve as an excellent secondary tank. Doom will still kill the automaton, but it is a tank option that will not add strain to your main WHM. In addition, the PUP can /WHM and help the secondary WHM watch over the main WHM or /RDM and Flurry the RNGs and CORs. If using a PUP, make sure the PUP extends its maneuver timers by beating on a beetle or something before popping.

If you aren't fighting at #2, I encourage you to try it. The RNGs and CORs and the whole backline can use the elevation to avoid being hit. Granted, if any pull hate and Vini or the adds drift down the hill, this advantage will be lost. If unsure, push HARD, assuming you will wipe. CRUSH it, pop all the things, get as far as you can, spawning as many waves of adds as you can, before hate is taken or you are otherwise overwhelmed. If your sacrifice can get the timing down to not allow any regeneration while you wait for weakness to wear, this will buy you a lot of time to Wild Card your SPs back for another crazy push, or at least provide you with a nice hate reset from which to continue at a more measured pace, watching the clock.

Vini has a lot going on, so don't be bothered that this fight is taking you multiple attempts. Keep tweaking your strategy, improving the experience and gear of your members, and you will get it. Good luck, tomorrow night!

Thanks Cherry, appreciated. We'd like to get it done so we can move on to others. I do like the idea of someone with lots of buffs running in to range so Vini thinks "ooo look at them buffs .. I better Raksha!", but it's risky as ya said.

We are using #2, and we are using the height difference addon. We're good at avoiding these moves til we pull hate, which is inevitable. Some say the rangers should use Last Stand. Others say they should use Coronach. I'm of the impression that Rangers could Last Stand during Raksha, but then switch to Coronach during Yaksha (due to the fact that during Meikyo it will do two hate resets in Oblivien/Sakra).

Maybe this is wrong, I'm not sure. On previous attempts we all just spammed Last Stand with 2 Anni AG RNGs, 1 Aeonic COR, and myself on COR (doing the least damage). We're using between 8-12 players. We've tried with 13 or 14 but it's counter productive. Our best attempts were with 8 players, with the tank pt only consisting of the PLD and WHM.

We've tried it with two whms too .. but I can't seem to explain to our WHMs what we want. I've said something like "one is always in range, the other is way back behind everyone looking after the other .. if the front WHM dies, the backline comes forward and takes over." But the WHM instinct is to be in casting range of the tank .. so the last two attempts with two WHM have not gone the way I wanted. Neither seemed to understand what I was looking for. I'm not sure how many other groups are using this method? We've had better luck using only 1 WHM.

I shouldn't have but I laughed so hard. 10/10. Will read again

About the only way to explain it is, WHM #1, your job is to keep the tank topped off and free of debuffs. Do not waste time casting Erase for every little thing, use Sacrifice to save time.
WHM #2, your job is to keep WHM #1 topped off and free of debuffs. If WHM #1 uses Sacrifice they will probably be silenced and/or paralyzed--Paralyna immediately. Silena immediately after. But Paralyna first, because, if WHM #1 is Pro, they will be trying to use an Echo Drop, which could be blocked by paralysis. Only then Erase whatever is left on WHM #1.
If both WHMs are watching the tank, they are putting the whole run at risk. If using a PUP/WHM, said PUP could be aiding WHM #2 to watch over #1.

This is good detail. I'm not a WHM myself, so it's hard to relate to the issues they have with this NM. One thing I never seemed to get from anyone is: What buffs do you keep up? And which order do you apply them?

What we've been doing is bringing WHM & GEO (and sometimes rdm or brd help as well) as support, and have the others cure when the WHM buffs/sacrifices. I can see how the WHM has issues curing/buffing/sacrificing the tank, while also erasing themselves. It is doable with one WHM, but is a lot to ask I think.

Protect, Shell, Barspell, Boost-Something, Haste, Regen... The tank will be able to put Protect and Shell back onto itself as needed, Crusade, Phalanx... If RUN, then Stoneskin, Blink, Regen and Refresh... If PLD, then Holy Circle, Sentinel, Rampart, Cover (why not). If /BLU then Cocoon, if /WAR then Defender.

Basically, any buff can be put on the tank. It doesn't hurt. If the tank has a pre/midcast set for high HP/-DT% there is no harm in casting anything they might want inbetween Enmity moves. Obviously, WHM #1 is going to be very busy, so reapplying buffs is lower on the totem pole.
Having so many buffs on at all times isn't mandatory, but having a high number of buffs active is the goal.

Putting Dia II on Vinipata shouldn't flip its stance, but adding too many debuffs will.
Also, if recovering from a wipe, the sacrifice should be mindful to put some buffs on themselves to prevent Vinipata from changing stances prior to each claim.

This is really helpful, thanks. I'm thinking we should also find time to add a ton of buffs to the tank before pop, at least that way it's more likely to stay in Raksha for a long time. It's a matter of timing though, we may have to bring some mules to stack up on buffs for everyone. If we're only having 3 in the tank pt (pld whm whm) it gives some space for that. I'm thinking an extra brd, cor, and a smn for crystal blessing and ecliptic growl. They'd give extra buffs for all, and drop before popping of course.

For ranger, you'll want to take advantage of decoy shot and super revitalizers plus random deal to shed a lot of extra hate.

Vinni does do hate reset moves in Yahksa stance and he will switch despite your best efforts. A co-tank is optimal for that scenario.

Is Enlight II ok for the tank? And what about Banish III from the WHM? Too risky to use dia II and Banish III for debuffs?


How do you make use of Decoy Shot if the tank has to stick to the wall due to knockback?

The second tank only needs to maintain some enmity above the rangers, not tank, libra and animus minuo on rangers can help.

Oh so Decoy Shot on to the second tank? A good idea. Also we don't usually bring a SCH when we do it the ranger way.

Does Decoy Shot work on a PUPs automaton?

It doesn't. You can decoy shot a black mage that you know will be dumping his hate, if your setup has one (just tell this to him). Vini is an undead so it won't take huge numbers from ranger. So you are less likely to experience hate spikes from this than other bosses.