Mobs Have Little To No Attack Now?

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Mobs have little to no attack now?
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 01:51:34
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Infernal Scythe 25% attack down +
indi-Wilt 48% attack down with dunna +
Geo-barrier 61% defence up for party with dunna =

Nerfed mob AoE attacks?

Or again
Infernal Scythe 25% attack down +
Indi-Wilt 48% attack down with dunna +
Geo-Frailty 28% defence down =
Mob with weak AoE attacks and low defence?

or again
Infernal Scythe 25% attack down +
indi-Wilt 71% attack down with Idris +
Geo-barrier 85% defence up for party with Idris =

The mob can physical attack?, maybe get the rng to tank with berserk on to give it a challange?

Or again
Infernal Scythe 25% attack down +
Indi-Wilt 71% attack down with Idris +
Geo-Frailty 41% defence down Idris =
Mob with weak AoE attacks and low defence?

Is there a fight going on? something showed up but seems like its doing nothing in terms of physical attacks and seems to take hits very hard?

Edit: I'm not complaining, more surprised if this isn't gonna be a thing, you know, the rng tanking with berserk on thing? (Or off if the mobs ftp is too high)

Of cause if the mob does anything magical then this is completely useless in terms of blocking that

Edit2: Can replace infernal scythe with weapon break
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By geigei 2017-06-09 03:22:09
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No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?
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 Phoenix.Dabackpack
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2017-06-09 03:32:45
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 Sylph.Ice
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By Sylph.Ice 2017-06-09 07:16:35
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This is a great thread.
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By OmniKroe 2017-06-09 09:16:30
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Dont forget bio3.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-09 09:42:02
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OmniKroe said: »
Dont forget bio3.

Jesus no, that blocks Dia III from taking effect.

Ok lets break this discussion into two parts, first being how attack reduction works, the second being why you would use it.

Ratio is (Attack/Defense), so we're working on the top of the fraction and subject to diminishing returns.

900 Skill Geo-Wilt = -25%
Dunna = -23% extra
Idris = -46% extra

So just 900 skill Dunna = -48% which is a good start. BoG Ecliptic can raise this to -80.5%.

So with just a HQ GEO and Infernal scythe you can reduce a monsters physical attack to nothing.


Now for the second part of this discussion, monsters physical attacks rarely are problems. The big killers are usually magic damage attacks. This is why Vex + Attunement used to be so powerful, it enabled the group to largely mitigate the strongest attacks out there. Outside of Fade there isn't too many ways to reduce magic attack, which is why things like barspells are not TPing in Argosy is so important.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-06-09 09:52:07
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Jesus no, that blocks Dia III from taking effect.
Except the topic is lowering attack to next to nothing.
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By clearlyamule 2017-06-09 10:28:41
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Don't know why you are so stuck on infernal scythe attack down. Bsts been able to do 50% attack down for years.

Should be noted it matters way less than you'd think it would because mobs are given several advantages namely in this case there is a floor on how low their pdif can go even if they have 1 attack. So yeah lowering mob attack helps but after a point it stops doing anything. But guess is ok for countering the negatives of berserk though why you'd give up more potent defense down instead idk
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By OmniKroe 2017-06-09 11:37:57
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I dont know why this is even a topic.
All these things require so many different people. You can easily mitigate a monsters physical attacks to nearly 0 by simply placing a paladin in front of it. That may be why having a tank is involv3d in most content. Who really knows though.
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-09 11:39:03
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I sometimes never, but rarely always get something from these threads.
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By fonewear 2017-06-09 11:41:23
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Odin.Horu said: »
Infernal Scythe 25% attack down +
indi-Wilt 48% attack down with dunna +
Geo-barrier 61% defence up for party with dunna =

Nerfed mob AoE attacks?

Or again
Infernal Scythe 25% attack down +
Indi-Wilt 48% attack down with dunna +
Geo-Frailty 28% defence down =
Mob with weak AoE attacks and low defence?

or again
Infernal Scythe 25% attack down +
indi-Wilt 71% attack down with Idris +
Geo-barrier 85% defence up for party with Idris =

The mob can physical attack?, maybe get the rng to tank with berserk on to give it a challange?

Or again
Infernal Scythe 25% attack down +
Indi-Wilt 71% attack down with Idris +
Geo-Frailty 41% defence down Idris =
Mob with weak AoE attacks and low defence?

Is there a fight going on? something showed up but seems like its doing nothing in terms of physical attacks and seems to take hits very hard?

Edit: I'm not complaining, more surprised if this isn't gonna be a thing, you know, the rng tanking with berserk on thing? (Or off if the mobs ftp is too high)

Of cause if the mob does anything magical then this is completely useless in terms of blocking that

Edit2: Can replace infernal scythe with weapon break
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By OmniKroe 2017-06-09 11:50:21
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geigei said: »
No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
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Cant believe how long i laughed at this.
Make google read this to you.
 Fenrir.Wynnia
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By Fenrir.Wynnia 2017-06-09 12:28:03
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Since when can you from to for?
 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2017-06-09 12:35:27
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Did you write this article as well?
 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 12:43:53
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I am curious if half the people looked at this thread from the point of a CP party or lv130+ NMS? something like Zone drg's would be affected by this in a massive way with infernal scythe and geo wilt together.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-06-09 12:57:12
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Hi Horu, as a DRK who loves scythe more than I should .. applying Infernal Scythe's effect is only for niche situations. I can't think of many places where the attack down effect would be required. You would need a monster which is physically destructive.

You would need a monster where applying this effect would be worth the time, because by not doing so you put yourself or others at risk. Perhaps this monster hits the PLD so hard the WHM loses MP too much? Can you think of any situations where adding this effect would make a fight easier to handle?

You have to think .. "When do we use Bio?", "When do we use other skills which lower attack?" The answer is never, or very rarely. I'd like one good example where lowering a monsters attack would benefit the fight more than using Dia + Angon (or any other form of defense down).

I understand you are trying to make the most out of the recent update, but as the game stands I can't think of anywhere I would use Infernal Scythe over Insurgency, Quietus, Entropy or Cross Reaper unless it's part of a 4-5 step skillchain. On the other hand, I'm making great use out of Shockwave's sleep effect in Omen card farming runs, and I can see where it would be useful elsewhere.

Unless you start a fight with 3000 TP and not using Liberator (much prefer the am3), I can't see anytime I would use Infernal Scythe. I would like to apologize for others here, clearly English is not your first language and they found it amusing. If you did not understand anything I said here, please ask. Cheers.
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 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-09 13:24:43
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Hi Horu, as a DRK who loves scythe more than I should .. applying Infernal Scythe's effect is only for niche situations. I can't think of many places where the attack down effect would be required. You would need a monster which is physically destructive.

You would need a monster where applying this effect would be worth the time, because by not doing so you put yourself or others at risk. Perhaps this monster hits the PLD so hard the WHM loses MP too much? Can you think of any situations where adding this effect would make a fight easier to handle?

You have to think .. "When do we use Bio?", "When do you we use other skills which lower attack?" The answer is never, or very rarely. I'd like one good example where lowering a monsters attack would benefit the fight more than using Dia + Angon (or any other form of defense down).

I understand you are trying to make the most out of the recent update, but as the game stands I can't think of anywhere I would use Infernal Scythe over Insurgency, Quietus, Entropy or Cross Reaper unless it's part of a 4-5 step skillchain. On the other hand, I'm making great use out of Shockwave's sleep effect in Omen card farming runs, and I can see where it would be useful elsewhere.

Unless you start a fight with 3000 TP and not using Liberator (much prefer the am3), I can't see anytime I would use Infernal Scythe. I would like to apologize for others here, clearly English is not your first language and they find that amusing. If you did not understand anything I said here, please ask. Cheers.

Thank you for your insults, they are duly noted.
While you have stated quite clearly how you ignored my referencing the attack down benefiting people in AoE range in the first half of the post and failed to see that i was joking in terms of the rng tanking (Since i was refering to Idris at the time).
Not only that to even think i ment you'd be spaming infernal scythe continuously is really more of insult on yourself.

The point of my post is that SE has increase the acc of addition effects on certain WS in the recent update along with other WSs of similar types (Meaning, its possible to use the WS once at the start of the fight and its benifit is 3 minute+ duration) Which means you might not even get a chance to use it again since there's no point reapplying it. this thread is somewhat of a Joke really in terms of how i wrote it(The rng pun should have been quite clear about that) and i presume most got that part however the benifit isn't a joke, even if noone wants to use geo wilt, the infernal scythe benifit can still play a major roll for mobs like Neak and body slam (except when he dispels it), however neak is simply a example in terms of a larger benifit, this game has been based around adapting and forming new strategys, i am simply offering a new one that could make a whole lot of difference if done right based on the recent update
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-06-09 13:25:21
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Odin.Horu said: »
Thank you for your insults, they are duly noted.
You're welcome, you elderberry-smelling stink-breath.
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 Asura.Omgwhy
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By Asura.Omgwhy 2017-06-09 13:43:04
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I Am Groot!
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-06-09 13:58:36
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As others have said, attack down only matters on a couple of very isolated monsters because the majority of meaningful damage is magical.

And nice job on being rude to Kylos, when he seems to be the only person who actually entertained your idiotic thread.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-09 14:03:53
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Trolls are trolling

Anyhow I can think of a handful of NM's that have high damage physical attacks, so this might be useful to help a DRK survive if they can't get 5K+ HP for some reason. "Just use tanks" isn't an answer because monster attacks can be AoE and a good DD will rip hate off a tank, it's why we have -DT sets in the first place. Omen mid boss's are the first NM's that come to mind, their physical attacks hit very hard.
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 Leviathan.Vedder
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By Leviathan.Vedder 2017-06-09 14:26:05
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Just another tool that as kylos said is probably not going to be used but also as saevel pointed out there might be some point to using it as I'm assuming it'll stack with dia. I do use it when I'm trust fighting things that are taking awhile to kill but the brighter option is honestly kill the mob faster with a stronger ws
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By clearlyamule 2017-06-09 14:53:03
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This idea has been played with and attempted a lot in the past. And it has some level of success in a few situations namely a few nms with really strong physical AoEs (particularly ones the backline can't avoid) and some solos where resources namely mp for healing can be limited.

Thing is we even achieved -99.9999% (technically it's 100% but att/def floors at 1) att a couple of years ago. And that didn't rely on bio or boosting player def. There is a reason it never gained widespread traction that being the gains are somewhat minimal in most situations (namely most mobs it's the non physical dmg that is the scary thing and due to game mechanics a mob with a strong physical move with small amounts of att down can still wreck you even with 1 attack) and the cost to do it is real and even a bigger deal if you trading a 2nd bubble and dia.
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 Asura.Omgwhy
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By Asura.Omgwhy 2017-06-09 14:58:56
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Use it for glassy craver in omen, for that off-PT in an 8 man run, where the RNG is stuck in the pt w/o a healer!
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By Leviathan.Vedder 2017-06-09 18:30:17
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Leviathan.Vedder said: »
Just another tool that as kylos said is probably not going to be used but also as saevel pointed out there might be some point to using it as I'm assuming it'll stack with dia. I do use it when I'm trust fighting things that are taking awhile to kill but the brighter option is honestly kill the mob faster with a stronger ws
Just fyi I know dia is defense down but I was referring to how bio doesn't stack with dia to clarify
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2017-06-09 19:05:20
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Odin.Horu said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Hi Horu, as a DRK who loves scythe more than I should .. applying Infernal Scythe's effect is only for niche situations. I can't think of many places where the attack down effect would be required. You would need a monster which is physically destructive.

You would need a monster where applying this effect would be worth the time, because by not doing so you put yourself or others at risk. Perhaps this monster hits the PLD so hard the WHM loses MP too much? Can you think of any situations where adding this effect would make a fight easier to handle?

You have to think .. "When do we use Bio?", "When do you we use other skills which lower attack?" The answer is never, or very rarely. I'd like one good example where lowering a monsters attack would benefit the fight more than using Dia + Angon (or any other form of defense down).

I understand you are trying to make the most out of the recent update, but as the game stands I can't think of anywhere I would use Infernal Scythe over Insurgency, Quietus, Entropy or Cross Reaper unless it's part of a 4-5 step skillchain. On the other hand, I'm making great use out of Shockwave's sleep effect in Omen card farming runs, and I can see where it would be useful elsewhere.

Unless you start a fight with 3000 TP and not using Liberator (much prefer the am3), I can't see anytime I would use Infernal Scythe. I would like to apologize for others here, clearly English is not your first language and they find that amusing. If you did not understand anything I said here, please ask. Cheers.

Thank you for your insults, they are duly noted.
While you have stated quite clearly how you ignored my referencing the attack down benefiting people in AoE range in the first half of the post and failed to see that i was joking in terms of the rng tanking (Since i was refering to Idris at the time).
Not only that to even think i ment you'd be spaming infernal scythe continuously is really more of insult on yourself.

The point of my post is that SE has increase the acc of addition effects on certain WS in the recent update along with other WSs of similar types (Meaning, its possible to use the WS once at the start of the fight and its benifit is 3 minute+ duration) Which means you might not even get a chance to use it again since there's no point reapplying it. this thread is somewhat of a Joke really in terms of how i wrote it(The rng pun should have been quite clear about that) and i presume most got that part however the benifit isn't a joke, even if noone wants to use geo wilt, the infernal scythe benifit can still play a major roll for mobs like Neak and body slam (except when he dispels it), however neak is simply a example in terms of a larger benifit, this game has been based around adapting and forming new strategys, i am simply offering a new one that could make a whole lot of difference if done right based on the recent update

Oh .. as Comeatmebro said. I was the only one not insulting you, I replied to your thoughts about Infernal Scythe and asked for examples where we could use it in the game. I can't think of any .. and no one else has thought of any.

I was politely giving my thoughts and you responded with the assumption I was the one insulting you? I apologized for everyone else as I found it unfair no one had given you a real response. I'm going to chalk it down to a misunderstanding.

If Infernal Scythe had any use anywhere someone would have said something in the main DRK guide thread. As I said there, we can rely on Shockwave for its Sleep .. but Infernal Scythe? Forget about it. Neak does not need its attack reduced to beat it.

I'll give you one example of when you could use it: The White Mage disconnects from the game in the middle of a fight! The NM is only at 50%! Infernal Scythe! Bio! Absorb-STR! Absorb-ACC! Absorb-DEX! Stun! Weapon Bash! etc. (Save the Paladin long enough for the WHM to return)

I can't think of any other time. Just let it go man. The update to Infernal Scythe's effect did not make it worthy of use in most situations; you'd be killing your damage output and making the fight longer. Have a nice day.

PS: In response to "Not only that to even think i ment you'd be spaming infernal scythe continuously is really more of insult on yourself." .. I never said you was spamming Infernal Scythe. No idea where you got that from .. I never said anything like that.
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 Odin.Horu
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By Odin.Horu 2017-06-10 03:12:58
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Ok, i'll leave the subject with the exception of answering the question in the PS part about spaming infernal:
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
I would use Infernal Scythe over Insurgency, Quietus, Entropy or Cross Reaper unless it's part of a 4-5 step skillchain


Edit: you actually wrote: I can't think of anywhere I would use Infernal Scythe over Insurgency, Quietus, Entropy or Cross Reaper unless it's part of a 4-5 step skillchain.

That is my bad
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By Brynach 2017-06-10 03:26:22
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »
but as the game stands I can't think of anywhere I would use Infernal Scythe over Insurgency, Quietus, Entropy or Cross Reaper unless it's part of a 4-5 step skillchain
Odin.Horu said: »
Ok, i'll leave the subject with the exception of answering the question in the PS part about spaming infernal:
Cerberus.Kylos said: »I would use Infernal Scythe over Insurgency, Quietus, Entropy or Cross Reaper unless it's part of a 4-5 step skillchain

"Context"
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By Chimerawizard 2017-06-10 07:36:18
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When I read the thread title I thought this would be in BLM forum or something. What with all the mEVA mages get to mitigate magic damage, and our low physical defense turning the pDIF to 0 sounds kinda fun.

Gate of Tartarus: atk-25%
Omniscience: MAB-10 (sch)
Shattersoul or Vidohunir: MDB-10
Death Blossom: meva-10 (rdm)
Randgrith: eva-32 (whm)
Shell Crusher: def-25%

(not saying it would be in any way efficient)
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By Carbuncle.Stiltz 2017-06-10 08:28:17
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geigei said: »
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There's a slight difference between micro-dosing and eating blotter sheets for breakfast, folks.
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