In Depth Attachment Analysis - TS And OF

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In depth attachment analysis - TS and OF
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By dustinfoley 2016-09-03 00:12:10
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I finally sat down to figure out how optic fiber works, and I ran into quite a few problems. Namely the attachment i was going to use didnt have the same values i was expecting.

% values for tension spring are wrong. Below are my values with ONLY the tension spring. Animator P, and ambuscade cape (level +1 and 20 atk). Then again with +182 atk from food/gear.

% Atk increase for 0/1/2/3 fire maneuvers, 1130 base atk
TS1-//1.9//4.2//6.6//8.5
TS2-//4.2//6.5//8.6//10.8
TS3-//8.5//10.8//13.1//15.0
TS4-//10.8//13.1//15.1//17.3

Odd that as atk goes up, % atk gained goes down, so here are the raw + atk gained.

Before anyone asks, yes, I did it with 0 attachments, and then 0->3 fire maneuvers to get base atk at each fire maneuver. so the 148 below is 148 higher then the 1 fire base with 0 attachments.

1130 base atk -- 0/1/2/3 fire maneuvers.
122//148//172//198 (raw atk gained)
10.8//13.1//15.1//17.3 (% atk gained)

1312 base atk -- 0/1/2/3 fire maneuvers
129//157//182//211 (raw atk gained)
9.8//11.9//13.8//15.9 (% atk gained)


I know when Tension springs initially came out they were tested, and values calculated, I am just at a loss as to why the % gained goes down as base atk goes up.

That said my values for OF1/2 were as follows
5/20/20/25 (of1 +ts4, both at high and low atk)
13/27/35/40 (of2 +ts4, both at high and low atk)
21/48/61/75 (of1 + of2 +ts4, both at high and low atk)

The one thing i notice is that at high values, of1 +2 is multiplicative. aka 1.25*1.40 = 1.75
In which case the true values would be below, but due to values getting floored 1 and 2 light maneuvers look identical for some reason with OF1.

OF1 = 5/15/20/25
OF2 = 15/30/35/40
OF1+2 = 20/50/62/75
 Asura.Carrotchan
Leonardo da Clippi
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By Asura.Carrotchan 2016-09-03 01:30:45
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Spicy said:
If any values are wrong for the Tension Springs or stuff. Please either edit them real quick or lemme know what to change and I will hop to it.
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By dustinfoley 2016-09-03 05:18:19
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Well had some sleep (4 hrs?) and it came to me that maybe food affects arent affected by tension spring.

Tested without food, then again with and subtracting the food values....food was 1 of the culprits.

Then i tried different animators and got different results.

animator - 11.83//14.26//16.50//19.19
divinator-11.08//13.39//15.42//17.80
anim P - 10.81//12.99//15.05//17.39


So I have come to a few conclusions
1) tension spring ignores food
2) tension spring modifies the innate bonus we get for pet stat gear (20atk gives 27 atk w/o ts , 30 with)
3) depending on animator; ts4 values vary, eg divinator gets a larger % bonus than animator p, so i would venture a guess that the hidden + raw atk stat values on animators is also not affected by tension spring, hence why anim>div>animp as far as % gain to atk.
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By Asura.Mewwgoat 2016-09-03 06:53:43
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are you counting how merits are applied before any other mods to the auto? could the attachments be applied before it figures the animator or maneuver mods?
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By dustinfoley 2016-09-03 07:26:28
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Yea, it was one of the things i went back and did, still never got to any of the posted values on the wiki. Naked, no merits, just the level 1 animator i was still a few % behind.
 Sylph.Traxus
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By Sylph.Traxus 2016-09-03 17:07:16
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What are the numbers on armor plate IV? Wiki has the numbers for I on its page.
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By dustinfoley 2016-09-04 05:42:30
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I believe trusilia posted it was 30/35/40/50
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By dustinfoley 2016-09-05 06:51:03
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Okay just to update: reran naked, level 1 animator, no merits (skill or optimization)

ts4 = 14/17/20/23, which is pretty much the 15/18/21/24.

Then i decided to figure out how tension spring + optimization work.

For gear, its additive. A 20 atk ring gives
28/29/29/30

1.4/1.45/1.45/1.5, based on point 1, 2, and 4, i presume its additive, 1.25+1.15 = 1.4, and 1.25 +1.25 = 1.5. Variance in the middle is due to floors.

However, for base atk, it appears Tension spring and optimization are both based on base atk.

Base atk = 510
Atk with op5= 637 (1.25, as it should be)
atk with op5 + ts4 = 713
Base atk + (0.15*510) + (0.25*510) = 510 + 77 + 128 = 714

So at first glance with opt + ts4, it appears to be
12/14/16/19

Calculating % gain off base atk its
15/18/21/24 (hey look finally the posted numbers!)


The final thing i wanted to look at was animators. Its been known that aside from the visible stats, divinator and animator p have invisible stats on top of everything. And this seems to be the case.

While normal gear works with TS and op5...it appears the bonus 20 or so atk from animator p is just added on the end and isnt affected by anything else.
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By dustinfoley 2016-09-05 07:14:25
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I guess my big take home, would be that while ts4 says it gives a high % atk, in practice (animator P, gear, merits, food, etc) You actually gain a far smaller %.

Base atk + (Base atk * opt) + (Base atk * ts4) + animator + food + (gear * (opt +ts4)) = total atk
[+]
 Asura.Mewwgoat
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By Asura.Mewwgoat 2016-09-05 18:49:13
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gods work man, too much for me to have bothered, though i have been known to dive into crazy tinfoil hat searching myself
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [50 days between previous and next post]
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-25 17:17:37
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0 / 1 / 2 / 3
OF1 5~12 / 21 / 21 / 26
of2 12~15 / 26 / 34 / 40
of1+2 21~25 / 47 / 61 / 74

Went ahead and parsed it out.

Due to having to use a low level pet and no gear, it makes it so a lot of the values get floored. Which is pretty darn close to the values above.

tension spring 4 and of1 + 2
fire - fire - light = 20.6% atk * 1.47 = 30.282% atk
fire - fire - fire = 23.8% atk * 1.25 = 29.75% atk
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 05:31:12
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Question for you trul... you said attuner/target marker are half as effective on NM?

so 2.5/7.5/15/20 (attuner) ? Just want to update wikis if thats true.

I am also thinking of adding values with of1/of2/overdrive and different varieties of light maneuvers.

EG
2 fire 1 light

overdrive fire/light/thunder
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-10-26 07:27:03
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I believe that they are, yes. Numbers would be 2.5/7.5/15/22.5. Also, I don't actually know if they are affected by Optic Fibers or not. My rule of thumb is that anything that gives a measurable constant boost is always affected by optic fibers, but Attuner and Target marker are radically different. I suspect that they are, but I haven't tested that specifically.

Also worth testing is if Apex Mobs have a NM tag or not. I don't know exactly how Collossal Blow works, but I suspect that since it does the same thing to NMs as it does to Apex mobs, they might be the same. Or it works based on max HP. No clue really.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2016-10-26 08:02:00
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Both of those attachments used to be related to level correction. Considering seekers mobs don't have that any more, that would be why you think it doesn't affect them.
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 09:14:26
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Anyone have values for speedloa deres increase to skill chain dmg
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-10-26 09:47:31
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
Both of those attachments used to be related to level correction. Considering seekers mobs don't have that any more, that would be why you think it doesn't affect them.

They absolutely do work, just at half the potency you would expect. Attuner is pretty difficult to demonstrate this with, but Target Marker is pretty easy. If you know the evasion of your target you can calculate it's evasion after Target Marker and parse accuracy. That's actually exactly how I did it over a year ago on Ru'ann T3s.

I did it on Vir'ava, but anything with super high evasion works.

Dustin, I posted values for speedloaders when they released in the main PUP thread.
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 10:02:04
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Yeah but I'm on a phone cause work blocks ffxiah but not reddit or wiki :-(
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 10:23:36
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Nm found it I'll add to wiki
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 12:14:24
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Does VE have an innate -dt? I'm seeing posts that say yes and no. If so what % is it
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-10-26 15:20:18
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12.5% DT. Svens on Fenrir confirmed it a while back while we were discussing using discoid to check MDT terms.
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 15:55:23
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Ok, im making a big excel (google sheet) that has all attachments affected by optic fiber to kind of track the optimal maneuvers for certain things. (like when fire fire fire will beat fire fire light).

I know there is a lot of great info on these boards but it seems to be buried in 36 page threads and not ever added to wikis.

I guess in general we need
coiler II values
dynamo 2 and 3 values.
if optic fiber affects attuner/target marker
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 16:45:59
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Adding dynamo 3;

20/25/30/35% crit rates, 200 samples for each.
10/15/20/25 (-10% base)
Dynamo 2

15/20/25/30 *same sample sets as above
5/10/15/20 (-10% base)

*edit forgot to subtract base crit rate. went back and parsed with none, and with dynamo 1 as control. mobs i was using, i had a 10% crit rate (+/- 1%)
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 22:02:11
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any suggestions for coiler II parsing?
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-26 22:08:14
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coiler 1 + 2 + of1 +of2 and 3x thunder is about 95%~99 double attack.


so (30 + x ) * 1.25 = 95

so im assuming coiler 2 = 45% DA with 3 thunder maneuvers
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-27 05:34:00
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coiler2 could use a way larger parse but at 150 swings each im coming up with

0 - 10%
1 - 15%
2 - 25%
3 - 35%
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By dustinfoley 2016-10-27 16:42:18
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repeater --

10/15/35/65
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