Empyrean Weapons Got The Short End Of The Stick

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Empyrean weapons got the short end of the stick
 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2016-02-11 11:32:36
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Anyone else feel like empyrean weaponskills used with empyrean weapons should have gotten a boost? Sure, the triple damage is nice, very nice, in fact, and the stat and weapon damage boost just adds gravy, but the weaponskill itself remains behind. Empyrean weapons should have a 10 percent increase in empyrean weaponskill damage or have the double and triple damage apply to weaponskills. Someone post this on the official forums because I am BANNED FOREVER!
And say hi to Camate and boo to that flan.
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 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2016-02-11 11:49:30
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since you compared agaist nothing and only valueing on emp ws should be stronger because of emp wpn i can only really answer on that part of it.

yes i total agree emp ws with an emp weapon should get at boost. i think they should make it so after er giving time after each ws you got a unique boost so that it does not get overiden by other buffs.

since it a boost that follows the ws they could call it follow boost or after boost or something like it...
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-02-11 11:52:39
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Shaddap.
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 Shiva.Malthar
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By Shiva.Malthar 2016-02-11 11:55:34
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Ok,let me introduce relics and mythics, then. They both got a boost while empyreans remained the same. For a long while people complained that empyrean weapons were getting left behind because the boost gave the other weaponskills a distinct advantage. One could argue that the white damage makes up for the lack of a boost,but the white damage just isn't enough. Empyrean weapons are still getting left behind. Their distinct weaponskills need a boost to compete with relic and mythics.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-02-11 11:57:13
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Uh, mythic damage scaled up by significantly less than relics or empyreans. Meanwhile empyreans got better scaling, more significant stat boosts, and OTD aftermath.

Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Shaddap.
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2016-02-11 12:03:10
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Has anyone actually tested Empyreans? Afterglow Empyreans were almost certainly the rarest afterglow, and I haven't seen any posts about one yet.

Mythics (me):
I've seen my own testing that Mythic WSs didn't get any kind of boost.

Relics (Ihina):
I've seen testing indicating that the hidden effect of Mandau (triple damage) hasn't increased, AM durations have increased, and the AM is as advertised.

I haven't seen testing on:
* Relic WSD bonus
* Relic hidden damage boost effect proc rate
* Potential Empyrean WSD bonus
* Empyrean AM duration
* Empyrean AM proc rate
* Mythic AM durations
* Mythic AM2/3 potency (I saw someone comment that AM1 potency is the same but forget where)

Obviously the default is to assume things are unchanged from the previous weapon, but considering I haven't even seen any empyrean testing I think it's pretty soon to conclude they got the short end of any sticks.
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By Shiva.Malthar 2016-02-11 12:09:03
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SCIENCE time! Everyone, send me boulders so I can test with my Farsha.
 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2016-02-11 12:23:06
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Shiva.Malthar said: »
Ok,let me introduce relics and mythics, then. They both got a boost while empyreans remained the same. For a long while people complained that empyrean weapons were getting left behind because the boost gave the other weaponskills a distinct advantage. One could argue that the white damage makes up for the lack of a boost,but the white damage just isn't enough. Empyrean weapons are still getting left behind. Their distinct weaponskills need a boost to compete with relic and mythics.


Before that boost people where complaing about relic and mythic ws had low dmg.
S.E boosted those. i think even multiple times
now emp are getting complains.
If S.E. boost those I think we have a rinse and repeat situation.

I'M not disagreeing that there might be some adjustment for each individual WS. but i think boosting a group of ws just because another group is better seems like an infinite loop.

also emp have some of the easist lights kill chains properties if i recall correctly ( I might be totally wrong) which which while not directly boosting WS dmg. might still give a different kinds of benefits.

instead of just boosting raw dmg i would rather have they looked more into the ws mechanics and gave diffretn WS; a diffrent situtians they do above others in. so its not just about spamming the most DMG WS but actullyget to know when to use what.
having all 3 kinds of ws axcell in each of their own and let the merrits be the more avarage DM spike for a more allround use


TLDR: i think adversity in WS usability will improve gameplay more than just RAW dmg boost
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By Rooks 2016-02-11 12:28:48
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Uh, mythic damage scaled up by significantly less than relics or empyreans. Meanwhile empyreans got better scaling, more significant stat boosts, and OTD aftermath.

Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Shaddap.

Seriously. One of the best parts of this patch is that the final forms of almost every weapon are pretty strong now.

(Almost. Relic/Empy staves are still left out in the cold, and Gambanteinn is the world's most expensive Cursna piece, but mage legendaries tend to skew useless/weird anyway.)
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-02-11 12:36:52
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Rooks said: »
Gambanteinn is the world's most expensive Cursna piece
Gotta get that Cursna stick tho.
>:)
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 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2016-02-11 12:43:47
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@Rooks
I'm sorry but I honestly dont know if you meant yagrush or if there is something I missed about Gambanteinn.

if you mean yagrush i must say i love yagrush for not beeing just a DD pieces. it was the reson i got a mythic for my mule before my main at all. i honestly wish they would make support jobs REME's more Support boosting than just DD.

But thats just me. i know alot of ppl like bening a dd whm.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-02-11 12:49:06
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Gambanteinn
DMG:212 Delay:300 HP+135 MP+135 Magic Damage+217 Club skill +269 Parrying skill +269 Magic Accuracy skill +255 "Cursna"+100 "Dagan" Aftermath: Occasionally attacks for triple damage Afterglow
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 Lakshmi.Sulia
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By Lakshmi.Sulia 2016-02-11 12:53:48
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Phoenix.Gaiarorshack said: »
@Rooks
I'm sorry but I honestly dont know if you meant yagrush or if there is something I missed about Gambanteinn.

if you mean yagrush i must say i love yagrush for not beeing just a DD pieces. it was the reson i got a mythic for my mule before my main at all. i honestly wish they would make support jobs REME's more Support boosting than just DD.

But thats just me. i know alot of ppl like bening a dd whm.

The Version 3 of Gambanteinn got Cursna+100 on it. That's what Rooks was referring to with it being the world's most expensive Cursna piece. It is also why he said almost all mage legendaries were weird.
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By Arcto 2016-02-11 12:56:46
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Empy AM3 is 3 minutes long now.
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2016-02-11 12:57:53
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TY

Dang now i have to sub aDW job for perfect cursna gear.
anyone know if this works offhand ?
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2016-02-11 13:00:37
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Empy WSs are the best WSs for most weapons. Relic and Mythic WSs mostly need those boosts to keep up. Getting a massive modifier on the weapon and getting a bonus to melee damage for using your best WS seems a pretty solid deal. Almace and Twashtar are also now the best offhand weapons for those jobs.

Rooks said: »
(Almost. Relic/Empy staves are still left out in the cold, )
If I was a BLM, I'd be ballsy and tank with Claustrum + Manawall
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By Ragnarok.Bigsyke 2016-02-11 13:10:31
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Apocalypse says hi
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2016-02-11 13:12:39
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Arcto said: »
Empy AM3 is 3 minutes long now.

This is super awesome. It's too bad that it only affects melee hits.
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By Arcto 2016-02-11 13:17:56
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I really think Empy are stronger than ever now with how much access we have to multihit gear augments.
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By Ramyrez 2016-02-11 13:27:18
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Arcto said: »
I really think Empy are stronger than ever now with how much access we have to multihit gear augments.

Though they have the problem that unless their added stat is DEX, they lack in the acc still needed by most jobs, especially the two-handers, even with the skill level upgrade.

These updates are nice but I'm really not sure they're all that helpful in the grand scheme to fixing two handers.
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By Arcto 2016-02-11 13:43:52
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Oh I totally agree on the acc issue. I really wish they would just give 2H native melee jobs acc bonus V or something to bring us up to the 1H acc levels
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2016-02-11 13:44:40
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1H Empyreans still have problems because Empyrean aftermath applies only to melee hits (~35% of total DPS for me on DNC) done with the Empyrean weapon (~50% of my melee DPS) where the weapon procs (50% with AM3, pending testing?).

(100%-35%) [WSs] + 35%/2 [offhand] + 35%/2/2 [main-hand non-procs] + 3*35%/2/2 [main-hand procs]

So I would only get a 17.5% increase in my overall DPS from perpetually maintaining Twashtar's AM3. Better than the 8.75% I used to get, but still kind of a hard sell. However, I do like the idea of working in a 3000 TP Climactic Rudra's every 3 minutes and such a WS is certainly less of a sacrifice than a 3000TP Pyrrhic Kleos (enjoy your long duration evasion down, sucker!).

2H users have it much better, as their AM3 doubles whatever fraction of their DPS comes from melee hits. AM3 would represent a 35% increase in DPS for a Ukon WAR, for instance.
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2016-02-11 14:12:40
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See for the clubs, the aftermath for the Relic, Mjollnir, that Refresh is good! Don't get me wrong, but its not worth locking your main, and having to get into melee range to get the aftermath off so that you can use it.
At least in a zone like Escha, almost always going to have the TP items avaliable. So the Aftermath changes for Gamba on the revamp is certainly worth it, as Dagen is self target, just need to then disable your main + sub slots and cure like that for 3 minuites, especially if your doing a fight thats cursna heavy like Yakshi. where you really dont even need the best cures avaliable to keep the tank alive, whats more than likely going to kill is sadly going to be the doom.

For Career WHMs, if you have an i119 Gamba/99 Gamba, go for it.
Want that dank Club collection? Sure thing, but really if your not a career WHM Yag is still the best way to go.
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By Arcto 2016-02-11 14:24:03
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I may have miscalced my timestamp. Had a friend log me in to verify AM3 for empy but it appears it is 120 seconds. Was reaaaally late last night when I pissed with it.

Deepest apologies.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-02-11 14:25:12
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apology unaccepted, nerd
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By Arcto 2016-02-11 14:30:52
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Get rekt!!! It was like 2 am when i was up. Stop jejjin!!1


On a side note. Aeonics still seem kind of lackluster if thats their final state..
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By Asura.Lukee 2016-02-11 15:47:18
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Upgraded Almace is certainly 1/2/3 min duration for aftermath now.
Finished this evening and did some small samples on the aftermath proc rate:

AM1 - 506 swings, 150 OTD - 29.64%
AM2 - 388 swings, 162 OTD - 41.75%
AM3 - 514 swings, 260 OTD - 50.58%

So looks like they haven't changed the proc rate.
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By Arcto 2016-02-11 16:06:58
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Yes, you are correct, shame on me for listening to Kazeryushin's test.

3 min AM3. Classic Kaz~!

Verified myself at home now.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2016-02-11 16:16:04
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Empyreans got an enormous buff from this update, I'm not sure what you mean. Speaking for BLU, Almace is definitely our absolute best off-hand, and in any situation where maintaining mythic AM3 isn't the best idea, it is our best mainhand by a massive amount.

ODD -> OTD
All aftermath duration doubled
Huge attribute bonuses

In my opinion, Empyreans are, far and away, the winners of these upgrades.
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