Whm Role In Today's Endgame.

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2010-09-08
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whm role in today's endgame.
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 Asura.Wormfeeder
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By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-07 20:26:45
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Been wondering about what role besides healing a whm plays these day. I just got it to lvl 99, took ten years but hey I did it and want gear it accordingly.
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-07 20:28:20
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Asura.Wormfeeder said: »
Been wondering about what role besides healing a whm plays these day. I just got it to lvl 99, took ten years but hey I did it and want gear it accordingly.

healing:
Some Debuffs (So get a Magic Accuracy Set)

You could also check the WHM guide (granted I made it so it's Self opininated) but it's up to date bar a couple of pieces of gear and Reforged AF3
 Asura.Wormfeeder
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By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-07 20:32:14
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Been looking at your guide for ideas.I got af, relic, and empy gear, just need to reforge them.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-07 20:49:14
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Asura.Wormfeeder said: »
Been looking at your guide for ideas.I got af, relic, and empy gear, just need to reforge them.


Competent WHM: keeps People Alive.
Good WHM: Does it with Minimal Support and maintains Lyna/erases where appropriate (Although this should be Basic, most players fail utterly at reading chat log.)
Very Good WHM: Has all sets for Silencing thing's like the Gnole in Delve..

Holy sets not needed, it's just Hilarious out nuking a BLM or a BLU as WHM when they have soooo much more gear available to out shine ya.

The only thing I would change about the sets is more bias towards Emnity reduction in case your group isn't very competent and you are looking at capping Threat
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By FaeQueenCory 2015-04-07 21:46:00
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Enfeebling on WHM is almost as dead as haste cycling.
Namely cause RDM+GEO has basically replaced BRD+COR for almost every thing.
So needing enfeebling sets, while good to have, isn't as required as it used to be. Just like how knowing how to keep a haste cycle up is something RDM has taken control of. (Of which I am not complaining over... One less thing to keep track of means it's easier to keep -nas up right.)

Also: don't spam Curaga V.
Don't spam curagas. (Though there are times where you might have to do so frequently.)
Learn how enmity works and cure appropriately.
Just... Don't Curaga V all the things.
You just die from that.
 Sylph.Safiyyah
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2015-04-07 22:25:30
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Asura.Wormfeeder said: »
Been wondering about what role besides healing a whm plays these day. I just got it to lvl 99, took ten years but hey I did it and want gear it accordingly.

White mage is the last word in healing. It's a tier-S job, simply for that reason. For low-man content, you'll sometimes be responsible for enfeebling. I'm not sure what else you want from the job.
 
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 Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget
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By Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget 2015-04-07 23:18:46
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Don't spam your highest level cures on everything you heal. With capped -enmity in gear, 500+ Healing Magic, and enough cure power, you can very easily use Cure III/IV with occasional Cure V's when needed and not pull hate if you are competent. The same goes for Curaga I-IV.

Basically what I'm saying is know how much you Cures heal for and use them accordingly, the less you overheal the better you will be.

Cure VI and Curaga V are never really needed any more. They were made for Abyssea HP totals back when it was normal content.
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By protectorchrono 2015-04-08 00:01:21
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Asura.Wormfeeder said: »
Been wondering about what role besides healing a whm plays these day. I just got it to lvl 99, took ten years but hey I did it and want gear it accordingly.


Damn...Ten Years? Off and On I'm assuming? Well, healing goes without saying as that's what the job...well does. Granted when soloing it can be fun especially with self heals, buffs, and if you sub go /nin then you have shadows for added protection. Makes whacking those mobs upside the head with your staff/club or hexa striking that random old school content boss a breeze. Otherwise than that, I don't know what else you'd want out of whm, that depends on what you want out of it and or if you can come up with something new for whm to do besides those two things I mentioned.


Make sure you cap your Cure Potency, get the AF3+2 Legs (Orison Pantaloons), work on capping your healing skill and work on enfeebling and enhancing magic. Whm is a stressful job, there will be close calls and situations that will make wish you didn't bothering coming to events as whm but all in all it's a challenging job that forces you to become better at it with practice or give up on it altogether.


Try your best at the job and it will become second nature to you. If you fail, than don't give up and try harder. I had issues as whm myself a long time ago but with practice it became one of my best jobs and I got a lot of praise for it because I did my best and geared it well.
 Asura.Wormfeeder
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By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-08 06:48:05
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Thanks for all the helpful info. Gear should be easy. To get. Experience will just take time and patience.
 Odin.Tamoa
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By Odin.Tamoa 2015-04-08 07:07:55
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Oh and for the love of all that's holy, make a -pdt set, it's easy and you can also throw in some mdef/-mdt pieces in the same set. As a whm myself, nothing irks me more than whms who don't do this, pull hate for one reason or another, and die in 2-3 hits.
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 Asura.Wormfeeder
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By Asura.Wormfeeder 2015-04-08 08:28:58
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Odin.Tamoa said: »
Oh and for the love of all that's holy, make a -pdt set, it's easy and you can also throw in some mdef/-mdt pieces in the same set. As a whm myself, nothing irks me more than whms who don't do this, pull hate for one reason or another, and die in 2-3 hits.
I have most of the accessory pieces just need to get skirmish gear and augment them.
 Carbuncle.Arcksan
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By Carbuncle.Arcksan 2015-04-08 09:59:36
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Bomb cure :D
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-08 10:16:49
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Quetzalcoatl.Wakmidget said: »
Don't spam your highest level cures on everything you heal. With capped -enmity in gear, 500+ Healing Magic, and enough cure power, you can very easily use Cure III/IV with occasional Cure V's when needed and not pull hate if you are competent. The same goes for Curaga I-IV.

Basically what I'm saying is know how much you Cures heal for and use them accordingly, the less you overheal the better you will be.

Cure VI and Curaga V are never really needed any more. They were made for Abyssea HP totals back when it was normal content.

Isn't Cure V lower hate than Cure IV due to Set Emnity of Cure 5 as apposed to scaling enmity on Cure IV?

Cure V VE: 800 CE: 400 (About Equal to Cure 3) which means that assuming MP isn't an issue (I.E. Gjallahorn Ballads) Cure V may be better to use assuming you don't need to mitigate MP as heavily (thereby making Orison pants the best cure legs available due to MP conversion over the other pants) for more HP and the same Threat as Cure 3.

You really should try and steer away from Cure 4 since they fixed Emnity and if you have say PLD BRD GEO, your WHM (because I know mine can) have no MP issues without Ballads or GEO refresh, BRD helps tremendously obviously (and always Sub SCH as its Superior to every option by a MASSIVE margin).
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 Odin.Tamoa
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By Odin.Tamoa 2015-04-08 11:35:01
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
(and always Sub SCH as its Superior to every option by a MASSIVE margin).

Personally, I prefer rdm sub over sch. The only difference is /sch gives my barelement spells 7 more resist, and I can accession pro/shell an alliance party if they're without a whm/sch/rdm. But that's me.
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By Valefor.Seranos 2015-04-08 12:37:55
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Odin.Tamoa said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
(and always Sub SCH as its Superior to every option by a MASSIVE margin).

Personally, I prefer rdm sub over sch. The only difference is /sch gives my barelement spells 7 more resist, and I can accession pro/shell if an alliance party if they're without a whm/sch/rdm. But that's me.

First, let me preface with: You can be a good WHM with either. It's also pretty situational.

However...

Don't forget that /SCH gives:
- 10% MP savings with Light/Dark Arts
- Light/Dark Arts has more -recast (10% vs. 5% /RDM)
- Brings Enfeebling/Enhancing up to B skill (404 vs. 373)
- Accession for AoE buffs (Stoneskinga, Boost-Statga, etc.)
- Celerity/Alacrity for 50% cast time
- Penury/Parsimony for half cost spells
- Access to Aspir and storms for use with obi (not thunder, light or dark)
- Fire II (WOOOO!)

While, with /RDM you do get:
- Don't have to bother with Light/Dark Arts and running out of Stratagems
- Extra 5% fast cast (15% FC /RDM vs. 10% FC with Light/Dark Arts), but it's easy to cap Cure casting time -80% without the extra 5% anyways
- Spells: Ice spikes, Flurry, Frazzle, Distract, Bio II, Phalanx, En-Spells, Gravity (which no longer reduced EVA) and Poison II

Sublimation and Refresh seem about even (don't feel like doing the maths...).

So, I'd have to agree with Conagh big time here. I love RDM, as it was my first to 75 and used in endgame back in the day, and I'd love for it to be better than /SCH, but it's just not.
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 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2015-04-08 12:41:37
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Not to mention Celerity for casting Arise, immunity to sleep thanks to Sublimation, and the fact that all your spells cost less MP. And higher enfeebling skill.
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-08 12:58:25
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Valefor.Seranos said: »
- Light/Dark Arts has more -recast (10% vs. 5% /RDM)

Incorrect, its -10% cast time not fastcast and as a result is multiplicative and equates to about 2% off a recast set assuming you are looking to cap i.e 78% fastcast is required to cap with light arts on.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-08 13:00:06
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Odin.Tamoa said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
(and always Sub SCH as its Superior to every option by a MASSIVE margin).

Personally, I prefer rdm sub over sch. The only difference is /sch gives my barelement spells 7 more resist, and I can accession pro/shell an alliance party if they're without a whm/sch/rdm. But that's me.

You realise LIGHT ARTS ALONE IS BETTER THAN CONVERT AND REFRESH.

It's been mathed and it's not even a small difference. The difference is even more substantial with a Decent Refresh set / cure potency due to the MP returns from -10% cost and 5% return legs.

Sublimation just makes it a total and complete embarrassment.

Then for non Yagrush WHM.... Accession!
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 Valefor.Seranos
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By Valefor.Seranos 2015-04-08 13:20:25
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Valefor.Seranos said: »
- Light/Dark Arts has more -recast (10% vs. 5% /RDM)

Incorrect, its -10% cast time not fastcast and as a result is multiplicative and equates to about 2% off a recast set assuming you are looking to cap i.e 78% fastcast is required to cap with light arts on.

Is the BG Wiki incorrect? It states -10% cast time and recast time.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Light_Arts

If so, my bad, but was going off bad info. :)
 Odin.Tamoa
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By Odin.Tamoa 2015-04-08 14:05:40
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For me it's a matter of preference and habit. I was rdm main for years and when I leveled whm, I didn't have sch at subjob level for a long time. I find all the JAs more of a hassle than a help (again, that's just my opinion), and you only get 2 stratagems so to me, it's barely worth it.

Higher enhancing magic skill = 7 more resists to barelement spells (/rdm gives me 182, /sch gives 189), that's the only difference I find. The only reason for that is casting in 4/5 Ebers gear, there's no difference at all if I equip full enhancing magic gear (/rdm and /sch both give 190).

Higher enfeebling magic skill can come in handy, I agree with that. I need to do some editing to my enfeebling gearsets anyway, I've been a little lazy, once that's done I'll experiment and see how noticeable the difference is. I also agree Celerity -> Arise is most definitely useful. But is it enough to convince me to swap to /sch? We'll see, lol.

Sublimation gets screwed up if you take damage, that's one reason I dislike it. Handy if you get slept, yes - but I have poison potions in my mog case for that. ;)

Basically, if you don't mind all the damn JAs from /sch, it's the better subjob. Maybe especially so if you're missing some of the better gearpieces and not well geared as such. But for me personally, /rdm is the subjob of choice. And I don't think anybody that knows me, will say I'm a bad whm - despite using the supposedly worse subjob.

Cerberus.Conagh said: »
You realise LIGHT ARTS ALONE IS BETTER THAN CONVERT AND REFRESH.

It's been mathed and it's not even a small difference. The difference is even more substantial with a Decent Refresh set / cure potency due to the MP returns from -10% cost and 5% return legs.

Sublimation just makes it a total and complete embarrassment.

Then for non Yagrush WHM.... Accession!

No need to shout, I'm not saying /rdm is better than /sch, I'm just saying it's a personal preference, and explaining why.

And yes, when you don't have Yagrush, accession is helpful. But I do have Yagrush.


Btw Seranos, Boost-spells are already aoe.
 
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 Odin.Tamoa
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By Odin.Tamoa 2015-04-08 14:38:22
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »

There have been a lot of low man fights over the years where I'd I hadgone (and have gone /rdm) we simply fail the run. It sadly just can't cut it efficiency wise for the really hard/intensive stuff.

Heh, I remember when doing Legion, I really struggled as /sch. Sublimation alone just wasn't enough, and it also wasn't an uncommon occurrence where I took damage which screwed up sublimation completely. I found myself having more mp issues as /sch compared to /rdm.

But either way, I'll give /sch another try and see how I fare, I promise. ;)
 
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 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2015-04-08 15:13:05
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Even when having a yagrush, the ability to accession regen IV on top of the potency and duration gear is enough of a clear winner for sj choice.
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 Valefor.Seranos
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By Valefor.Seranos 2015-04-08 17:31:35
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In the end, I think it comes down to results. If you are WHM/RDM and have no MP issues, keep everyone alive and get the win, I would hope nobody is going, "well, why the hell didn't you go /SCH?!"

I'm levelong my WHM now (hence my stupidity about the boost spells not being AoE), so I don't have a rhythm yet. If you are more comfortable as /RDM, I'd rather have that standing behind me than someone trying to figure out how to balance JAs.

Though for me, I'll learn on /SCH because I like what it offers.
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-04-08 18:21:54
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Valefor.Seranos said: »
In the end, I think it comes down to results. If you are WHM/RDM and have no MP issues, keep everyone alive and get the win, I would hope nobody is going, "well, why the hell didn't you go /SCH?!"

I'm levelong my WHM now (hence my stupidity about the boost spells not being AoE), so I don't have a rhythm yet. If you are more comfortable as /RDM, I'd rather have that standing behind me than someone trying to figure out how to balance JAs.

Though for me, I'll learn on /SCH because I like what it offers.

Honestly SCH SJ is so much better if a player says I can't use SCH sj, I'd question their capabilities period.

Valefor.Seranos said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Valefor.Seranos said: »
- Light/Dark Arts has more -recast (10% vs. 5% /RDM)

Incorrect, its -10% cast time not fastcast and as a result is multiplicative and equates to about 2% off a recast set assuming you are looking to cap i.e 78% fastcast is required to cap with light arts on.

Is the BG Wiki incorrect? It states -10% cast time and recast time.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Light_Arts

If so, my bad, but was going off bad info. :)


Its 100% accurate, you seem to have thought Grimoire cast time is the same as cast time.

You do the following maths......

1 being Normal.

1-fastcast+Casttime- armor (So assuming you have 78%)
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
No it does not. The 80% casting time reduction is a hard cap (just like 80% delay reduction or 87.5DT).
It's also not additive to FC, iirc, it's multiplicative.

Much appreciated, I noticed this question wasn't answered in the guide so I added it as a footnote in the Scholar Section.

@Luloo you would stil need 78% fastcast to get to 80% cast time reduction with the 10% multiplicative value from Scholar.

How to calculate: 1 being normal cast time
Code
(1-0.1)x(1-0.78)=
 Quetzalcoatl.Jezz
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jezz 2015-04-08 18:43:09
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If you don't have mp issues (and don't need to flurry any ranged jobs) then sub sch and toss out Accession + Regen IV. Unless you need to occasionally erasega the entire party... using accession with any ~na spell will give you a stupid long recast timer so it's better to single target your ~nas.

Protip:
If mp is an issue, go /rdm for convert. If you're never are low on mp, then /sch.
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By Valefor.Philemon 2015-04-08 18:51:10
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Odin.Tamoa said: »
Heh, I remember when doing Legion, I really struggled as /sch. Sublimation alone just wasn't enough, and it also wasn't an uncommon occurrence where I took damage which screwed up sublimation completely. I found myself having more mp issues as /sch compared to /rdm.
Legion had a lot of downtime where you weren't constantly casting (which would favor /SCH). In a situation like that where you could wait for convert to come up and cast refresh between waves, then yeah /RDM would become more favorable.

I prefer /SCH almost universally but /RDM is still useful if there are a lot of breaks in the action or if you need MP instantly.
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