July Update Confirms Haste II; A Great Return?

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July Update confirms Haste II; a great return?
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-08 13:38:07
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Asura.Ccl said: »
As expected corsair and whm got replaced for rng+pld setup fight.
I still go cor to everything; it's okay guys nothing's replaced! All is fine in the pirate world.
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 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-08 13:40:43
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Asura.Reichleiu said: »
wormfeeder said: »
I think we will see more updates to jobs like this. some people don't want to lvl jobs just so they can get invites to Mega boss fights or the high tier battle fields. I bet they make all jobs relevant.

My Mythic DRG would like to have a talk with you...

So would every BLU PUP SMN BLM BST WAR DRK in current end-game.

they will never make all jobs relevant, not this current group anyway. Some jobs, BLM DRG PUP BST, are designed extremely poorly. Others, they just don't seem to care about.


JPs invite BLM to skirmish all the time!
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-08 13:42:49
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
As expected corsair and whm got replaced for rng+pld setup fight.
I still go cor to everything; it's okay guys nothing's replaced! All is fine in the pirate world.


I wish there's more info on snapshot buff values, so we'd stop all that "I think this job is good" "I think this job is worse than another setup" opinion based on personal experience instead of numbers.
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By Ragnarok.Drewbles 2014-07-08 13:46:24
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Asura.Reichleiu said: »
wormfeeder said: »
I think we will see more updates to jobs like this. some people don't want to lvl jobs just so they can get invites to Mega boss fights or the high tier battle fields. I bet they make all jobs relevant.

My Mythic DRG would like to have a talk with you...

So would every BLU PUP SMN BLM BST WAR DRK in current end-game.

they will never make all jobs relevant, not this current group anyway. Some jobs, BLM DRG PUP BST, are designed extremely poorly. Others, they just don't seem to care about.
A well geared drk and war can hang in several events. And smn is incredibly useful. However the jobs listed have other uses. Notice how thf is not on that list, because it gets you into events? No, bc people are aware of it's value in other places of the game. Those jobs have that it's just smaller.
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By wormfeeder 2014-07-08 13:51:00
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Ragnarok.Drewbles said: »
Asura.Reichleiu said: »
wormfeeder said: »
I think we will see more updates to jobs like this. some people don't want to lvl jobs just so they can get invites to Mega boss fights or the high tier battle fields. I bet they make all jobs relevant.

My Mythic DRG would like to have a talk with you...

So would every BLU PUP SMN BLM BST WAR DRK in current end-game.

they will never make all jobs relevant, not this current group anyway. Some jobs, BLM DRG PUP BST, are designed extremely poorly. Others, they just don't seem to care about.
A well geared drk and war can hang in several events. And smn is incredibly useful. However the jobs listed have other uses. Notice how thf is not on that list, because it gets you into events? No, bc people are aware of it's value in other places of the game. Those jobs have that it's just smaller.
add dnc to that list also. they get no respect right now along with the others.
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By Ragnarok.Drewbles 2014-07-08 13:57:33
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wormfeeder said: »
Ragnarok.Drewbles said: »
Asura.Reichleiu said: »
wormfeeder said: »
I think we will see more updates to jobs like this. some people don't want to lvl jobs just so they can get invites to Mega boss fights or the high tier battle fields. I bet they make all jobs relevant.

My Mythic DRG would like to have a talk with you...

So would every BLU PUP SMN BLM BST WAR DRK in current end-game.

they will never make all jobs relevant, not this current group anyway. Some jobs, BLM DRG PUP BST, are designed extremely poorly. Others, they just don't seem to care about.
A well geared drk and war can hang in several events. And smn is incredibly useful. However the jobs listed have other uses. Notice how thf is not on that list, because it gets you into events? No, bc people are aware of it's value in other places of the game. Those jobs have that it's just smaller.
add dnc to that list also. they get no respect right now along with the others.
They aren't meant to, however I do agree they aren't that great at solo stuff anymore in comparison to some other jobs. To many things can 1 hit a dancer.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-08 13:59:04
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
As expected corsair and whm got replaced for rng+pld setup fight.
I still go cor to everything; it's okay guys nothing's replaced! All is fine in the pirate world.


I wish there's more info on snapshot buff values, so we'd stop all that "I think this job is good" "I think this job is worse than another setup" opinion based on personal experience instead of numbers.


we don't even know how snapshot really work beside it lower delay. Rangers spreadsheet for ranged tp+rng ws is wrong cause our knowledge of snapshot/rapid shot isn't good enough, before the ws update; if we were to believe spreadsheet r was the best dd in game(it's not).
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By wormfeeder 2014-07-08 14:03:51
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Ragnarok.Drewbles said: »
wormfeeder said: »
Ragnarok.Drewbles said: »
Asura.Reichleiu said: »
wormfeeder said: »
I think we will see more updates to jobs like this. some people don't want to lvl jobs just so they can get invites to Mega boss fights or the high tier battle fields. I bet they make all jobs relevant.

My Mythic DRG would like to have a talk with you...

So would every BLU PUP SMN BLM BST WAR DRK in current end-game.

they will never make all jobs relevant, not this current group anyway. Some jobs, BLM DRG PUP BST, are designed extremely poorly. Others, they just don't seem to care about.
A well geared drk and war can hang in several events. And smn is incredibly useful. However the jobs listed have other uses. Notice how thf is not on that list, because it gets you into events? No, bc people are aware of it's value in other places of the game. Those jobs have that it's just smaller.
add dnc to that list also. they get no respect right now along with the others.
They aren't meant to, however I do agree they aren't that great at solo stuff anymore in comparison to some other jobs. To many things can 1 hit a dancer.
I don't get one shorted by much, maybe hedjedjet if I miss a stun but I can solo him easily now.
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-08 14:11:10
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Asura.Ccl said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
As expected corsair and whm got replaced for rng+pld setup fight.
I still go cor to everything; it's okay guys nothing's replaced! All is fine in the pirate world.


I wish there's more info on snapshot buff values, so we'd stop all that "I think this job is good" "I think this job is worse than another setup" opinion based on personal experience instead of numbers.


we don't even know how snapshot really work beside it lower delay. Rangers spreadsheet for ranged tp+rng ws is wrong cause our knowledge of snapshot/rapid shot isn't good enough, before the ws update; if we were to believe spreadsheet r was the best dd in game(it's not).


I think the difference is that spreadsheet didn't calculate the "lag" after you finish each shot, and that lag between each /ra still exist.

That being said, since you admit you don't know how snapshot really work, how'd you get the conclusion that COR+WHM got replaced? Is flurry number out? Can you find snapshot roll number with +5 ring anywhere? Do we know the cap for snapshot yet? Is it possible to cap snapshot with GEO/RDM flurry 1+ snapshot roll and have BRD+GEO main heal the PLD? How much dmg increase if we change 1 roll to SAM instead of snapshot?

Before providing the number and math for the above question, claiming it's replaced is just jumping to conclusion too soon. I don't MIND if it's not optimal, but just wanted to know WHY. Or else what we're arguing here is no different from Pchan argument: Based on nothing except personal experience.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-08 14:13:12
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I'm betting two cookies that snapshot caps at 85%.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-08 14:19:09
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
As expected corsair and whm got replaced for rng+pld setup fight.
I still go cor to everything; it's okay guys nothing's replaced! All is fine in the pirate world.


I wish there's more info on snapshot buff values, so we'd stop all that "I think this job is good" "I think this job is worse than another setup" opinion based on personal experience instead of numbers.


we don't even know how snapshot really work beside it lower delay. Rangers spreadsheet for ranged tp+rng ws is wrong cause our knowledge of snapshot/rapid shot isn't good enough, before the ws update; if we were to believe spreadsheet r was the best dd in game(it's not).


I think the difference is that spreadsheet didn't calculate the "lag" after you finish each shot, and that lag between each /ra still exist.

That being said, since you admit you don't know how snapshot really work, how'd you get the conclusion that COR+WHM got replaced? Is flurry number out? Can you find snapshot roll number with +5 ring anywhere? Do we know the cap for snapshot yet? Is it possible to cap snapshot with GEO/RDM flurry 1+ snapshot roll and have BRD+GEO main heal the PLD? How much dmg increase if we change 1 roll to SAM instead of snapshot?

Before providing the number and math for the above question, claiming it's replaced is just jumping to conclusion too soon. I don't MIND if it's not optimal, but just wanted to know WHY. Or else what we're arguing here is no different from Pchan argument: Based on nothing except personal experience.


For me it get replaced mainly cause rdm give buff(over whm) and brd march are needed for paladin hate(and cure IV to help the rdm cure) If your paladin can keep hate without marchs with rng and cor going all out more power to you. I admit that replacing is a big word, I should have said it give us more option.

EDIT Now if you say that rngX2+cor do more dmg than rngX3 I'll need to play with your cor, or you need to play with our rngs cause I won't believe you.
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By Ragnarok.Drewbles 2014-07-08 14:43:14
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I could kinda see it, our mythic Cor and our main Sam and me monk is our top dps usually for delve 1; not thy it matters in that content lol fitting two tojil clears in 45 mins is nice.
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By Asura.Gabba 2014-07-08 16:58:12
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can clear tojil in 20 mins w/ any competent group.. and don't need a mythic cor, so don't really see the point there
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-08 17:00:15
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If the cor is competent 2dd+cor is better than 3dd.

Haters gonna hate cause they play with gimp corsairs!
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-08 17:01:46
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
If the cor is competent 2dd+cor is better than 3dd.

Haters gonna hate cause they play with gimp corsairs!


It depends what you're fighting.
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By Luvbunny1 2014-07-08 18:51:26
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Haste II can be the reward from Campaign Ops - Splitting Heir (from Sandy). Easy to solo BCNM - which also drop Scarletite Ingot and other synthesis materials you need to upgrade level 119 reforged stuffs (Kaggen cuticle reportedly drop here as well).
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By Ragnarok.Tokuzi 2014-07-08 19:41:08
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anyone tried Haste 2 with stun set yet ?

solo stun with haste 2 gave me 9 sec recast, didn't test it with marches yet, curious if it can go lower than that.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-08 20:04:55
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Ragnarok.Tokuzi said: »
anyone tried Haste 2 with stun set yet ?

solo stun with haste 2 gave me 9 sec recast, didn't test it with marches yet, curious if it can go lower than that.

delay reduction cap is 80%, so the fastest recast is 9 seconds, but don't think that because you cast and then check your recast that you are capped, you need to figure it out based on your gear. only sch can get lower than 9 second via the use of alacrity.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-07-08 20:41:18
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DRK and BLM can also get under 9 second stun via alacrity.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-08 21:15:00
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should have clarified sch main or sub, but rdm can't.
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By Ragnarok.Exavion 2014-07-08 21:17:02
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This is kinda obvious but RDM can maintain Chainspell stun for 1min + 20 secs with augmented Chainspell from Vitivation tabard.

Yes, I realize most Delve boss fights you use it on last longer than that but it would easily allow time to drop your Impact/Dia3/Distract/Frazzle/etc early on with good timing increasing zerg potential. Making it worth noting at least.

I haven't had a chance to test Haste II duration but it should last over 5 mins at least like Haste I with Composure set bonus. Also, It does still get overwritten by certain slow effects. It is likely the same instances it would have been overwritten as normal Haste but this will need to be tested.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-07-08 21:27:26
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It lasts 3 minutes, or around 13 minutes with full +duration stuff on.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-07-09 05:06:21
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I just want to know if slowga overwrites Haste II cause that's one of the most annoying things ever. You have all the DD's hasted, then the NM lights off slowga and your stuck cycling sacrifice on all your DD's.
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By Cerberus.Spirachub 2014-07-09 09:28:12
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Odin.Jassik said: »
should have clarified sch main or sub, but rdm can't.


That's incorrect to my knowledge.

Sch can only get below 9s recast if alacrity + thunderstorm + relic feet.

If I forget thunderstorm and stun with alacrity (being a noob, i often do forget...), I get a 9s recast.

Unless my game is severely bugged otherwise I don't believe anyone can get lower than 9s recast apart from sch main and a CS-ing rdm.
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By Ragnarok.Drewbles 2014-07-09 09:40:22
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Asura.Gabba said: »
can clear tojil in 20 mins w/ any competent group.. and don't need a mythic cor, so don't really see the point there
Yes I know, that's what I said? I was just saying that dd or Cor comes out about the same dps.
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By Ragnarok.Drewbles 2014-07-09 09:45:39
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So to clarify red Mage and scholar have the same recast cap excluding alacrity which is overkill regardless. Also scholar is much reliant upon buffs where red Mage fast cast is gear and trait based giving them a little more freedom and "oh ***" readiness. So it's really preference.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-09 10:07:52
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Ragnarok.Drewbles said: »
So to clarify red Mage and scholar have the same recast cap excluding alacrity which is overkill regardless. Also scholar is much reliant upon buffs where red Mage fast cast is gear and trait based giving them a little more freedom and "oh ***" readiness. So it's really preference.

RDM does suffer from a few key things that still make SCH a superior stunner for things like Foret/Morimar fracture.

1. MP if you're doing impact and nukes to drop auras as RDM can't parsimony. You always have Convert and should have 13+/tick refresh, it's just more tricky than SCH.

2. Macc is naturally lower for dark magic like stun/impact, and RDM doesn't have the same nuking potential.

Cerberus.Spirachub said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
should have clarified sch main or sub, but rdm can't.


That's incorrect to my knowledge.

Sch can only get below 9s recast if alacrity + thunderstorm + relic feet.

No, you're right, it's still subject to the cap like anything else apparently, it's only the "weather: Enhances Alacrity" effect that can bypass the cap.
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By Creecreelo 2014-07-09 10:59:14
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Odin.Jassik said: »
No, you're right, it's still subject to the cap like anything else apparently, it's only the "weather: Enhances Alacrity" effect that can bypass the cap.

Actually, I've heard that Dark Arts/Light Arts and gear like academic's loafers +1 and pedagogy mortarboard +1 can break the cap as long as Alacrity/Celerity is not used. You would definitely need buffs and the right gear to do so. I haven't played scholar in years, but I remember faintly a conversation with our ls Sch and he was talking about Stun and lowering its recast as much as possible without Alacrity and that you could get like 7 seconds or something through the Dark Arts bonus and gear like I mentioned.

Would need a Sch pro to chime in for confirmation on that though.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case though, Pianissimo cuts past the casting time for songs. However, Nightingale can't push songs past the 4sec cap on recast, so...
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-09 11:10:08
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Ragnarok.Drewbles said: »
Asura.Gabba said: »
can clear tojil in 20 mins w/ any competent group.. and don't need a mythic cor, so don't really see the point there
Yes I know, that's what I said? I was just saying that dd or Cor comes out about the same dps.

If DD and cor are the same dp why don't we simply make cor cor cor brd whm pld or melee for everything 6 roll > all.
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By Cerberus.Spirachub 2014-07-09 11:30:36
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people who say cor comes out about the same dps are being silly (or taking in really bad DDs), or corsair is an insanely OPed job that is being overlooked by everyone. If you compare a good cor against a DD, you need to compare it against a good DD, or compare a spreadsheet dps of an optimal cor vs a spreadsheet dps of an optimal DD.

The benefit of taking a cor over a DD should be the dps of COR + the extra DPS the DDs gain from having a COR around (buffs, dia2 + light shots, etc). and that seems to really depend on the quality of the cor!
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