July Update Confirms Haste II; A Great Return?

What all these new updates are doing are making it possible to play any job you want cause optimal or not they all become 'good enough' for the task. This is a game and people have been complaining for ages that they can't play their favourite job because they're forced on the optimal one. If some things don't become mandatory anymore this allows much more flexibility for everyone to use whatever playstyle they want the most.
If leaving a bard out won't break a run anymore that's a pretty good improvement.

Base Advancing + Victory March = 15.7% Magic Haste.

+5 for both = an additional 15.6% Magic Haste, for a total of 31.3%.

If you Marcato Victory March, you get 25.8% + 14.1% = 39.9% Magic Haste, 3.8% shy of cap, thus still requiring Haste spell. Soul Voice allows you to cap using only March, or with one March and Haste spell. GEO being capable of doing something similar, particularly with Bolster, isn't outside of the realm of possibility. Most of Haste's value is lost on a GHorn BRD if you Marcato March, so you wouldn't use Marcato on March anyway, but it gives Indi/Geo-Haste room to be weaker than dual marches and still sufficient for capping magic haste.

I cannot clear without a bard now, and no one can; but we're making progress I guess we went from it won't happen to bad people won't be able to to it :p

That's true to a certain extent, if i'm not mistaken you can only cap haste with marches + nq haste if you have march +4/5x2 , if +4 you need to marcato one of them or you'll be slightly under the haste cap?

which means with haste II it's easier to cap haste with a gimp bard. but taking a rdm in might potentially gimp your entire party by replacing out on something else, depending on what you're doing and with how many people I guess!

I know that marches alone don't cap you, but when you ever going to be a situation where someone isn't casting dia/haste.

I'm not arguing about the potential viability of GEO+RDM, I'm just saying that if you have a brd you have access to capped haste.

Yes but that wasn't the point of what I said, Marches alone don't cap you, so we don't need Indi/Geo-Haste to either for it to be sufficient.

As Spirachub mentioned too, would be particularly nice for people without infinite access to Langeleik/Gjallarhorn brds. Overall I'm pretty optimistic about all of this.

Did anyone wonder that maybe this would either do what BP II does, and surpasses the current delay cap, or even lower not only melee speed, but also lower job ability timers?

Because really, that is the only way this would be beneficial in 95% of situations.

Or even lowers ranged delay.

I hope it doesn't that would be too strong

Remember the good ol' days when Suzaku would throw chainspell and some baller *** RDM in the alliance would stick a silence on him and be the freaking hero of the night? Or maybe watchin a 75 RDM solo gods like it was no big thing? RDM is one of the most under rated jobs in game and for no good reason. They cripple monsters! They could turn the terminator into john mayor! That is their strength. They are getting haste II and good on 'em for that, but to say that they still won't be useful in end game is an ignorant statement. Especialy to go as far as saying "even a whm has paralyze and dia." I hope this finally breaks the stigma and if nothing else gets people to try out RDM again. I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised. :)

Never said it won't happen, I said it could be difficult for RDM to fill the slot as main healer for most Delve groups(read: not just there for Haste/Debuffs). A good RDM in a good group would probably do fine. I know I'm glad we have WHM healing in my runs personally, and I'd think most people would want that. I'm not saying you couldn't fit RDM in to try to fill some other support roll(like BRD, since everyone keeps bringing that up), but as a main healer is probably sketchy for most groups.

RDMs aren't there to heal the group though.

They are there for debuffing and specific requirements.

Typical rdm fan boy *** post, it replaces nothing unless it actually breaks the haste cap or something stupid people will use it as a last resort job. Brds elegy and slow is powerful enough and para 2 is meh. Silence can be landed by whm and even brd....

If you wanted to be lazy I guess and take a rdm as a 7th to cap haste easier to free up other songs I guess you could.

rdm can cure when they get cureskin too :^)

And stronger cures.

Right. But this is what was being said :



If the point was "RDM can nuke and has a stronger haste then WHM and enfeebles and is awesome", I would have been all for that. That wasn't the idea I got though. It seemed more like "throw RDM in place of WHM and you're good to go", which is why I argued against it.

whm has way too many utilities that it's really hard for a rdm to replace when it's important. Simply having only curaga II in a melee setup can already be problematic (not saying it's impossible but def. more hassle). Curaga, cureskin, Aff. misery + esuna (if your whm uses it), Sacrifice, the ability to /sch for strats... there isn't that many situations where rdm is a favourable choice to use as a main healer.

I see rdm replacing the sch slot more than anything really (if you take one, that is)

Our WHM's don't waste time with na spells here either, much more efficient to have remedies for the DD's. That way they can handle their own ailments as needed and WHM are free to do their cure spam. The only na our WHM's will spend any time casting in yorcia might be cursna because of doom. Everyone brings the holy waters but our WHM's still try to help clear it off.

Outside of a few VD fight, wich event require whm to main heal?

I agree with you when content is hard and such whm is NEEDED, but yorcia have been cleared by someone trioboxing, Ice zone is done with 4; you never needed a whm is Marja or any of the AA fight beside Elvaan I guess.

WHM is by far the best healer, no question ask and if something is really hard you'll want a bard anyway; but saying rdm isn't viable main heal in most current end game is wrong.

But it is indeed true, that if haste2+luopan is good; you'll more likely drop the sch (if you bring one) than the whm.

what's is a whm using cure 6 healing for these days. my dnc with gears swaps us doing 1100hp for cw4 and 1400 to1500 with cw5. cw3 gets just over 600hp.

Any event that has more then two melee's in range of the big bad guy.

WHM has one thing that makes it 10x better then any other healer, Curaga III and IV. Ok technically that's two things. There is a 3s global cool down on spell casting so no matter how powerful your cures you can never cast ST cures fast enough to keep melee's alive on anything that uses aoe's. Delve MB's are perfect examples because their regular attacks are aoe's that tend to damage everyone around them and need Curaga spam.


Why limit yourself to six players in delve? You can easily bring a BLM, RDM, SCH, SMN, GEO or RNG in a seventh slot on their own. Each of those will add more total value then the 5~6% HP that the NM's get. The primary requirement is that they can take care of themselves and not need support from the main party.

an extra person will add 1/18 of hp to the boss that has 6/18. that's 16.666%. The reason for not taking 7th is basically we can comfortably kill with 6 without the need of a 7th.

But yes, i agree, if you feel like rdm can do whatever you want to add more value than 16.6666% of hp then by all means. It's just that if it's for me and I feel like I want to take a rdm, it would probably replace the sch XD

No event require more than 2 melee in range to be optimaly cleared, or that even is uber easy/every tp move are stunned anyway. So wich even does NEED a whm to be cleared atm beside a couple VD event ?

As to why not put job in the 7th job, ask SE why they made delve adding more people bad unless you go for optimal setup/perfect geared people.

Yorcia comes to mind, if you're not trio boxing (which becomes irrelevant, many jobs can keep a single DD alive), unless your team is really good(lucky?) at getting the aura down as soon as possible, then your 2 DDs and the whm would be in range for uproot spam, then possibly also the nukers after a few more. Uproot do ~1k (less with more -mdt gear on i guess), making it incredibly difficult for a rdm with curaga II only to keep everyone alive.

Unless your strat is really different to ours the above will be the case. I'd imagine if you limit TP feed during aura by turning or something it might be easier for a rdm to keep you alive.

Marjami T4 do whiteout which makes your life a lot easier if you can sacrifice it off the pld. Of course you can still probbaly stay alive with zombie status on unless there are other complications.

Not to mention haste 2 really comes into good effect if your rdm is hasting everyone who needs to be hasted. on top of a full time curing role and the occasional debuffs i think you need a really good rdm to justify that.

I wouldn't say whm is ever needed, but it's def. is a much safer option in many cases. If the healing is light, a brd with 3x ghorn ballads on himself can do it well too (prolly need a 2nd support job to cover the time when he needs to re-sing.)

WHM isnt needed...

For maybe like 10% of current players.

For the others 90% it is a must for 100% of hard events.

SC dmg break aura in yorcia, since the update we break aura w/o even trying.

I agree that whm is better/safer/awesome and rdm is harder/more dangerous.

I'm just happy about the change that might allow us to not cancel run/offer more flexibility on what to bring to clear stuff that is all; it will most likely not be optimal.

This update can potentially give us as much flexibility on support job than on melee job; no job can touch Koga sam in Yorcia but you can clear without any issue with most dd setup, rdm+geo will prolly not touch brd+whm but having more choice is a very good thing for me.

WHM is a lot less work with even a single melee.

Unless haste II does something other than just contribute a larger % to magic haste cap it won't have any real impact on the current status quo. Pickup groups will still shout for the optimal setup just like now you see shouts for Normal and Difficult battlefields wanting relic rngs.

nice points,i agree with you 100%.unfortunatly for some,low man things are passé,needing a fully optimized pty setup is the trend because the new generation of players are lacking the skill and seasoning that adversity brings.
the artist's of the feeb ,ones that have a clue....could return to the rule that they deserve.

A good start for Haste II would be at least 25% haste, 5 minute base duration, 10 second recast. That will make it a pretty long lasting spell, can tag everyone in party or all DDs rather quickly due to that recast(even with Composure) and it should last quite a long time. Additional boons would be +10% Double Attack or some kind of Acc or Crit bonus so it has something unique over March/NQ Haste. If it did have an extra bonus, they could make it party only so we don't have to cast across alliances. It's a nice start. SE said they were going to make powerful new debuffs for RDM soon too, so we'll see.

Well the dev post does say an "Arsenal of spells for RDM" including Haste2, so there are other spells they haven't announced that could make RDM even more useful.

Unless Haste 2 works like cata haste, it's basically completely irrelevant, as is RDM as a whole.

Which is highly unfortunate coming from someone who was originally a RDM, and enjoyed it.

Cureskin is OP.
Regen V is OP.
RDM gets... enfeebles, weeeeeeeeeeee! Not.

My alt is always sch/rdm and gets all the benefits of main RDM.