July Update Confirms Haste II; A Great Return?

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July Update confirms Haste II; a great return?
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By Xijaah 2014-06-20 04:19:59
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or rather an unneeded change for a forsaken job?
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By Pantafernando 2014-06-20 04:37:08
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A brd with normal haste can cap magic haste and gives minuet. Most likely rdm wont be able to cap haste by himself, so he will never be prefered over brd.

If you consider rdm over cor or geo, the last 2 have more uniques and potent buffs, aside being better in dding or nuking than a rdm.

So, the problem of rdm is that he has competition in his buffs, where most likely he will be non optimal anyway, and his best debuffs (dia, para, slow) a whm has access to a similar also, making a choose of rdm never an optimal choice.
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By Asura.Tot 2014-06-20 04:42:46
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make temper a any-one buff and composure's duration effect everyone and -maybe- rdm would be used
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-20 04:45:32
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I can see rdm haste2 being able to cap magic haste with geo spell and make geo+rdm an usable choice over whm+brd.
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 Asura.Tot
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By Asura.Tot 2014-06-20 04:50:05
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wishful thinking! unless haste 1&2 stack (which would be super annoying to keep up on everyone) and even if geo's stacked it would be a waste of a geo's buff regardless!

Edit: BRD is too OP
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-06-20 04:50:32
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RDM's advantage in debuffing isn't insignificant, and its heals aren't bad enough to make it useless in that field. Haste II could make it quite beneficial to bring to lowman (which let's face it, what isn't lowman) activities, especially with a GEO as Ccl mentioned. This all depends on the potency of the spells, personally expecting at least 25% from Haste II alone.

Asura.Tot said: »
wishful thinking! unless haste 1&2 stack (which would be super annoying to keep up on everyone) and even if geo's stacked it would be a waste of a geo's buff regardless!

Not really. If the haste effect is potent enough then Haste+DEF Down from GEO would be comparable to March+Min from a 3song brd at least, all while introducing nukes which a BRD can't replicate which should help close the gap even more easily. Also consider that a GEO's buffs/debuffs can't be dispelled, dispel being a major deterrent for bringing melee to quite a few fights these days. One could argue Luopan durability as an issue, but that's been being improved substantially over time. Also consider that a BRD can't cap haste on its own without Soul Voice, Bolster could do the same.
 Bismarck.Zuidar
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By Bismarck.Zuidar 2014-06-20 04:56:58
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The real question should be: Will Haste 2 overwrite enemy's Slowga spell and Slow II :p
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 Bismarck.Inference
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-20 05:01:28
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RDM would have significant difficulty keeping up with status removals of a WHM. Not even considering Yagrush, Divine Caress is a huge advantage. Add in lack of Curagas which may be needed and you're running those 2 Accession charges pretty thin.

Also if you happen to have more than one party you run into issues of the GEO's Haste not hitting other members. Dunno, current GEOs we bring are mules and we only do it for the DEF down. Haven't seen one stand in AOE range since Delve 1.0 mega bosses so I'm not sure if it's actually viable to have them do it for Delve 2.0 final bosses. Even if it is, it's another person for that RDM healer to have to stress over.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-20 05:05:49
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Mainly talking about low man, if you have no issue having 18 you have no issue find a brd I'd assume; It would just be nice to have another choice even if it's not as good for w/e reason.
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-20 05:13:26
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I just don't think you can go 1:1 exchange for WHM BRD <> RDM GEO. Best case scenario if you can't find the BRD I think is to go RDM GEO WHM just for the sake of keeping the GEO alive. Sucks to have to bring RDM just to cap haste, but they also bring extra defense down(assuming you don't have COR) and alright enfeebling for what its worth. Also has the benefit of taking some of the strain off a less experienced WHM.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-06-20 05:16:02
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I always see people going to extremes and never really consider sufficiency. The point is, RDM+GEO could be sufficient in place of WHM+BRD if you have no other option or if people want to play those instead, especially right now when DDs are pulling 6-10k WSs with SCs to match out of every orifice. That's a very good thing. Job diversity has needed to be expanded upon for a long time.
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-20 05:18:59
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I admit I am skeptical in RDMs ability to sufficiently replace a WHM. Both in effective status removals and keeping people alive. I wasn't trying to turn this into a "MY WHM AND BRD IS BETTER THOUGH" discussion. I just think even an above average RDM would have difficulty filling an entire WHM spot by himself.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-20 05:24:45
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In yorcia weald, we ask some of our whm to ONLY cure, they don't cast a single -na; 6 man we still cleared very fast most of the time.

edit: So the removal of status won't be an issue for sure, as for cure yes whm is better; but I fail to see why a rdm couldn't main heal most 6man delve at least.
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By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2014-06-20 05:31:32
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I must say, I'm excited for this. Even if it doesn't really open new spots for the job I'd still get use out of it. When doing Difficult on MPNMs I can get double Madrigal with capped Haste and possibly a Minuet or 2 rather than a second March. When nuking in general I can lower my recast timers with the extra haste. When soloing things will die a bit faster and I get faster shadows.

All in all it's helpful even if not job defining. I'm happy it's coming, just wish it didn't take them a year and a half after they talked about doing it to finally get around to it...
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-06-20 05:32:34
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Bismarck.Inference said: »
I admit I am skeptical in RDMs ability to sufficiently replace a WHM. Both in effective status removals and keeping people alive. I wasn't trying to turn this into a "MY WHM AND BRD IS BETTER THOUGH" discussion. I just think even an above average RDM would have difficulty filling an entire WHM spot by himself.

I have to agree. As a career GEO I'd be happy to see an increased need for the job, but I don't think trying to replace BRD+WHM with GEO+RDM is really the way to go. Then again, throwing in an extra GEO for a low-man delve setup only seems to benefit the group. I'm not sure if the same can be said for RDM.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-20 05:34:56
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The idea(I think) is NOT to replace, it's more to not have this happen anymore(I hope): "hey brd isn't on today, so can't do "insert random event name here", see you tomorrow guys"
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-06-20 05:39:48
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It's about adding options, not replacing anyone. It doesn't have to be binary. Pretty sure neither ccl nor myself expect RDM+GEO to be optimal (although GEO does pose the opportunity to match or exceed BRD)
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-06-20 05:45:31
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Sorry, replace was the wrong word to use. I still don't think it'll be viable, but I'd love to be proven wrong. RDM has been deemed useless for too long.
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By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2014-06-20 05:48:23
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Glad for rdms blu geos. But wherevare new sch spells, or new dtratigisms.

The recenr tp update broke the job trait nerfing that occult ability tp for nuking to the ground. And and nuke for blm or sch is so pointless when ypu got 7 to 15k ws' s.

T6 nukes yes please. And a stratigsm to aoe elemental magic, or let physicail ws' s count as magic dmg. Poor blms are even worse off. They would need t3 ancient magic.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-06-20 05:53:28
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Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »
new dtratigisms
I tried, I really did, but I can't for the life of me figure out what the *** this is.
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-20 05:56:12
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New stratagem I'd guess
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-06-20 05:56:35
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In what language I wonder.
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 Bismarck.Inference
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-06-20 05:58:52
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My argument was never about optimality, only functionality. If your group is comfortable enough to clear low man delves already, you're probably already allowed to change jobs and screw around as you'd like. Less experienced players require more specialized job setups. Bad things will happen to an average group and RDM will likely just not cut it in a main healing position. At least with BRD/GEO people generally expect them to buff/debuff and AFK anyways.
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By Cerberus.Doctorugh 2014-06-20 05:59:09
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Depending on potency DNC + RDM might be an option to cap out haste, making for a DNC/RDM/COR/DDx3 option
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By Ragnarok.Presidentmerman 2014-06-20 05:59:24
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He's an English teacher
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By Pantafernando 2014-06-20 05:59:33
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But the op omited an important info: the haste ii wont be the only one rdm will get, so we cant just made the final decision based in one buff. Supose rdm gets a similar att buffs, da buff, regain buff, we can see rdm as an unique niche: while cor, geo and brd are jobs natively restricted to slot (cor 2 rolls, geo 2 magic, brd 1-4 somgs), rdm buffs doesnt seems limited to slots, so we can guess rdm can cast all his arsenal of buffs, and overall, contribute more than the few slots buffs.

If haste and haste ii dont stack (and its almost 100% they dont, as phalanx and refesh i and ii dont also), and haste 2 dont cap haste by himself, a brd will always be prefered in melee setups.

BUT if the bonus of having a rdm can be favorable to dropping one dd (in lowman setups) for rdm, if the final dps result in better numbers. Also one should consider that rdm with buffs magics can dim stun sch. Gives rdm a magic to enhance macc and reduce meva, with rdm rescast already good enough for stuns, and maybe we can see rdm in this role contributing more than just stuns, as sch buffs are pretty cheap.
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By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2014-06-20 06:00:05
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »
new dtratigisms
I tried, I really did, but I can't for the life of me figure out what the *** this is.


Sorry on bumpy subway ride. Bad bumps on smartphone makes bad post.
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By Pantafernando 2014-06-20 06:00:53
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Cerberus.Doctorugh said: »
Depending on potency DNC + RDM might be an option to cap out haste, making for a DNC/RDM/COR/DDx3 option

Haste samba wont cap magic haste because its ja haste, so they stack.
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By Carbuncle.Killkenny 2014-06-20 06:02:04
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Also consider that a BRD can't cap haste on its own without Soul Voice,

?
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