Thaumas Coat Vs Manibozho Jerkin

At what a augment would Mani if ever over take Thaumas?

Thx
CP

When it becomes the Thaumas Jerkin.

So ill take that as a no?

As farfetched as it sounds its only a matter of time before Thaumas body actually does become obsolete given the direction the game is heading lol. Hopefully its sooner rather than later since the whole thaumas set is ugly to look at anyway.

I am rather quite fond of big red ribbons.

It doesn't. Ever. Unless your acc blows.

Does this question really need its own thread? There is a THF guide that you can ask on as well, if not the random question thread.

Using what I have on spreadsheet for accuracy sets, Manibo starts to get even with Thaumas at rank 7, assuming you can take advantage of all the accuracy (including from DEX). I'm completely ignoring any dDEX advantages it may have, which will obviously push it ahead.

If you're using your THF on Delve, you'll often find yourself lacking accuracy, even with sushi; on bosses, sushi and full-blown accuracy sets are mandatory. However, there are a lot of other alternatives for accuracy gear that may not necessarily cost as much (looking at about 10mil just for rank 7) and/or sacrifice as much in terms of stats.

Given that I am, more often than not, uncapped on Delve NMs unless I'm getting double SV mads, this may be something I'd look into upgrading if it weren't that I could instead upgrade Aphotic, Manibo legs, and Manibo feet first, which are all better investments.

can Manibozho Jerkin be augmented ?

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Delve_Rewards

After fully aug'd mani would have:

DEF:68 STR+10 DEX+15 AGI+15 Accuracy+27 Attack+32 Haste+4%

Maybe for a WS body but I'd think the multi hits from Thaumus outweighs the attack.

So with the new content. What good is multi attack when you can't hit? I've been watching the thfs that go in ceizak delve fracture missing all day long. Old content I'd go with multi hit.

Idk about your thief but mine has plenty of accuraccy, and lets not forget thaumas has +10 acc too so to assume its worthless so quickly is a mistake imo.

@McDonalds87 If they're doing delve and putting time into getting the jerkin, wouldn't they have the weapon with acc on it by that time? 18 acc on the base dagger. Not to mention are there other slots they could put the acc in that doesn't then lose all the +attacks?

EDIT: To the above poster it's 12 acc.

ItemSet 299840


just a thought about acc gear.

Edit.: Not saying it is perfect, but decent acc.

Accuracy+12
"Double Attack"+3%
"Triple Attack"+3%
"Quadruple Attack"+3%
Haste+4%
Set: Increases STR, DEX, AGI, MND
Vs
DEX+15 AGI+15 Accuracy+17 Attack+17 Haste+4%

*Give up 3% DA-TA-QA + any additional peaces for set bonus.
*For 17att 5more acc and the extra dex/agi:

Doesn't seem like a logical decision to TP in anything else if you have Thaumas. If you need the acc/dex in your tp set that bad then you should reconsider your build. Its a nice non crit or Merrit WS peace but to tp in this over thaumas is a step in the wrong direction. there is no competition between the 2.

You're disregarding the augments on Manibozho. Acc+10, Str+10, Attack+15. So the accuracy is very different.

Although I would probably consider swapping other slots before touching the coat.

don't forget you can get augments on this Manbozho thing which would make it 32att 27acc total if you pick the att path.

But true, why you want to lose all the double- triple-quad attack in tp set when you can get acc on other pieces and without a big lose of other stuff.

Should be comparing to upgraded versions:
DEF:68 STR+10 DEX+15 AGI+15 Accuracy+27 Attack+32 Haste+4%
or
DEF:68 DEX+15 AGI+25 Accuracy+27 Attack+17 Evasion+15 Haste+4%

That said I don't think Coat is trumped yet anyway.

Because you, like everyone else there misunderstands what the dreadful energy message means. It gives everyone regardless of accuracy a floored hit rate of 20%, no amount of sushi, buffs or gear will overcome that. Thankfully the effect wears off after 30~45s. You need to be looking at accuracy outside of that message, which can be very hard to know due to parsing just being the average of everything.

Anyhow Multi-Attacks and accuracy rate are two totally different things, they don't interact with each other and one doesn't make the other more or less valuable. MA increases the total number of hits attempted, acc is just the number of those that actually land.

1000 swings @ 80% acc rate
1000 * .80 = 800 hits landed.

1000 swings @ 70% acc rate with 10% TA (just for example)
1000 * .1 = 100 procs for +2 hits each for a total of 1200 hits * .70 = 840 hits landed.

Your best bet is to use the DPS sheets to figure out which is best, just remember accuracy is easy to get and once your at cap more becomes worthless.

Well, we don't have any idea yet (as far as I know) about how difficult the final boss mobs are going to be. According to Matsui's chart, the current T4/5 Delve NMs are at a difficulty level of 14, while the final bosses are at 20. I imagine accuracy on them will be quite a different matter than current comparisons.

Without accounting for accuracy, the multi-attack on Thuamas is worth roughly +17% to overall damage (both melee and TP for weaponskills).

A fully upgraded Manibozho body will have (vs Thaumas):
10 str
15 dex (possible crit rate)
22 acc (including from dex; possibly more from the next patch)
37 att (including from str; possibly more from the next patch)

If the accuracy matters, 22 acc will be an 11% hit rate. 11% hit rate is +17% overall damage when base hit rate is 65%. So if your native hit rate is 65% or lower (actually, 65% relative to Thaumas, so 59% without any body accuracy at all), Manibozho automatically wins, since it also adds in fStr, attack, and probably crit rate (would guess 2% just to be conservative, but potentially a lot more).

Since you can expect the Aphotic Kukri to be pretty much required in order to fight the final bosses, fStr from 10 str will be gain something in the 2%-3% range.

37 attack vs a mob with 600 defense (assuming reasonly high defense, but also reasonable amounts of def down applied) is worth about 6%, though applied to only half your damage, so another ~3%.

Given the gains from fStr, dDex and attack are likely to be fairly universal, we can then adjust the point where the accuracy puts this above Thaumas. This works out to 87% relative to Thaumas accuracy, so 81% without any body accuracy. For simplicity, if your hit rate without a body on is 80% or lower, Manibozho will beat Thaumas.

Since that's all theoretical, going to try to put that comparison into the spreadsheet.

Delve boss: 600 defense, 530 evasion
Hit rate without body: 79.5%
DPS with no body: 348.780
DPS with Thaumas body: 434.615
DPS with unaugmented Manibozho: 453.825
~~ dDex was too high; pushed through the sweet spot; increasing boss agi to negate that
DPS with no body: 343.341
DPS with Thaumas body: 427.725
DPS with unaugmented Manibozho: 428.905
DPS with augmented Manibozho: 450.784

Clearly I underestimated the difference. Even unaugmented, Manibozho ties with Thaumas when base hit rate is at 80%.

Since augmented Manibozho is hitting the accuracy cap, I just need to reduce mob evasion until Thaumas hits 450 DPS to find out where the cutoff is.

Thaumas hits 450.514 DPS when hit rate with Thaumas is 91.5%. Thus the cutoff for hit rate without including the body is 85%.

This is always subject to a variety of other considerations, but I would still consider that as a reasonably valid inflection point between the two options: 80% for unaugmented, 85% for augmented.

a bit late in this but theres also a dex path that adds 10dex 15acc 10atk

just something to consider if youre looking at this body in terms of max acc builds, probably better to follow type a or c depending on if you have relic or not

an amazing eva hybrid body if nothing else

Ya I think the mani body has alot more going for it where as thaumas is very one tracked imo... Not a thfby any means, but I know for my jobs thaumas isnt even on my rador anymore... Att+ and Acc+ all the way it seems these days.

Unfortunately, the Manibozho set doesn't get the DEX path. You can choose from the STR/ATK path, the AGI/RATK path, and the AGI/EVA path. So if you're using it for melee DPS, the STR/ATK path is the only reasonable choice.

i stand corrected, though im glad to see they didnt forget cor and rng

They had to find another way to *** over light DDs.

thaumas coay are the best body for set tp ... !!! (thf)

I kinda thought the best think to do with Manibozho was to make it part of an EVA set, and maybe macro it in for Exenterator.

Looks like they are changing 1H to be STR = .75 ATK and DEX = .75 ACC. This puts the Delve body piece even more ahead!