Im interested to make an OAT polearm and I wonder how far will it serve me in events until its considered a gimp of some sort. How would OAT dragoon rank up in the high end events?
The reason im asking this is Im trying to decide whether to build Relic in order to able to participate in those events or shoot for a very long term goal (Mythic) in which case the the OAT should do me good until then?
( please lets try to keep it loldrg-free :) )
OAT Polearm And Events
OAT Polearm and events
I've still never finished my OAT polearm, stuck on the damn baby blobs but have everything needed after them, but I was always under the impression that a 99 OAT is only out done by mythic and arch odin's pole.
Well, personally, I went from OAT to Ryunohige. <,<
But whether you'd need a better weapon to get to do events has more to do with your linkshell's standards/requirements.
Anyway, for polearms better than a 99OAT, but short of Ryu, only a 95/99 Gungnir or a Herja's fork come to mind.
But whether you'd need a better weapon to get to do events has more to do with your linkshell's standards/requirements.
Anyway, for polearms better than a 99OAT, but short of Ryu, only a 95/99 Gungnir or a Herja's fork come to mind.
Carbuncle.Chibiclone said: »
I've still never finished my OAT polearm, stuck on the damn baby blobs but have everything needed after them, but I was always under the impression that a 99 OAT is only out done by mythic and arch odin's pole.
This would be interesting actually, always had the impression that 95-99 Relic would outdo OAT. Depends on the situation of course but generally.
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Anyway, for polearms better than a 99OAT, but short of Ryu, only a 95/99 Gungnir or a Herja's fork come to mind.
Thats the thing, from what I read people are implying that Relic 95-99 would outdamage the OAT but how big is that margin. Can a Gungnir dragoon holds his own respecfully that i would settle for it and works slowly toward Ryu or just work for the mythic from the start.
Thanks
duos said: »
Can a Gungnir dragoon holds his own respecfully
[+]
It has a fairly high proc rate at 99, I go to nni with a drg that uses an OAT we've won quite a bit and he holds his own until wars hit MS reso's on boss. I think its worth it to do it.
Also i believe you need 81 stp to 4 hit it since it has such a high delay. Or just 45 to 5 hit.
Also i believe you need 81 stp to 4 hit it since it has such a high delay. Or just 45 to 5 hit.
This thread has inspired me to make an attempt at a cartoon :<
this is really going to come down to the events you are doing. Gungnir is a serviceable, if expensive weapon. (the cost of building one would easily net you half the 30k Alexandrite if you bought from Bazaars.) on older content, DRG's weaknesses are far less apparent (SE really needs to give the job an attack boost, because it's by far the weakest 2 hander in the game right now) what sort of events are you going to be doing? how many people do you bring? what do you currently have/use for events that is not DRG?
fillerbunny9 said: »
this is really going to come down to the events you are doing. Gungnir is a serviceable, if expensive weapon. (the cost of building one would easily net you half the 30k Alexandrite if you bought from Bazaars.) on older content, DRG's weaknesses are far less apparent (SE really needs to give the job an attack boost, because it's by far the weakest 2 hander in the game right now) what sort of events are you going to be doing? how many people do you bring? what do you currently have/use for events that is not DRG?
Currently I'm only doing VW and soloing lower content and Its far more enjoyable on drg then higher DD jobs (well to me atleast! ). I would like to know what other higher events I can bring my drg to, Legion/ADL maybe?
some of those questions may seems obvious to some but really with lack of guide to read or drgs in sight one can't tell heh.
OaT is much cheaper then relic polearm :) Even at 10k per item for the last 2 stages(x150), only cost 3 mil to do and it's pretty easy to 5hit too :P
STR magian might pull ahead of OAT now due to the higher str/att and base damage. I'd say its something along the lines of:
Ryunohige>New Skirmish Augmented Polearm> Gungnir>Rhongomiant>Herja>STR magian>OAT>that new +1 AH polearm>Coalition Lance
Ryunohige>New Skirmish Augmented Polearm> Gungnir>Rhongomiant>Herja>STR magian>OAT>that new +1 AH polearm>Coalition Lance
Ophannus said: »
STR magian might pull ahead of OAT now due to the higher str/att and base damage.
[+]
I Personally have one of these and I thin they're great.
And because of the nature of Stardiver, this polearm and that WS go hand in hand.
Great investment till herja's//Ryu.
Gungnir will rock when it stacks with Angon. (if lol)
And because of the nature of Stardiver, this polearm and that WS go hand in hand.
Great investment till herja's//Ryu.
Gungnir will rock when it stacks with Angon. (if lol)
If you have the help and ability to make a mythic, make an OaT pole-arm for now to hold you over till Ryunohige. I made a relic, I have mine at 99. My ls is still not able to have my Drg at many events. First reason we now have a mythic drg in the shell. Second a relic drg though we do decent dmg, and I do have very good gear, our damage output is just not high enough. Third reason is we have far to many dd's who are much higher on the parse, and I have far to many other jobs I am able to bring to events.
We relic Drg's do not compete in the scale of mythic Drg's, Drk, War, or Sam's that are weapon/geared properly. If we were to ever see an adjustment to the defense down on gungnir, then we relic drg's will be called on again, but I fear to never see it.
As a relic drg I am having to find a reasonable second pole-arm to take to events so I can swap during my angons duration. The fact is having a lesser defense down on the weapon (Gungnir), though it can proc at anytime. It still over writes angon for a 7.5% defense down loss. So having to build a 250 million gil weapon just to have to not use it during angon, and the loss of TP when switching between pole-arms. We drastically reduce our own dps to serve as a true benefit to the alliance.
I am happy I made my relic. I am not trying to dis relic pole-arm owners. That fact is if you have other jobs to bring to events you will probably be asked to bring them over your relic drg.
Bottom line make a weapon you are happy with and play the job as you see fit. Though it may not be the best dmg in game. At least you will have accomplished a personal goal.
We relic Drg's do not compete in the scale of mythic Drg's, Drk, War, or Sam's that are weapon/geared properly. If we were to ever see an adjustment to the defense down on gungnir, then we relic drg's will be called on again, but I fear to never see it.
As a relic drg I am having to find a reasonable second pole-arm to take to events so I can swap during my angons duration. The fact is having a lesser defense down on the weapon (Gungnir), though it can proc at anytime. It still over writes angon for a 7.5% defense down loss. So having to build a 250 million gil weapon just to have to not use it during angon, and the loss of TP when switching between pole-arms. We drastically reduce our own dps to serve as a true benefit to the alliance.
I am happy I made my relic. I am not trying to dis relic pole-arm owners. That fact is if you have other jobs to bring to events you will probably be asked to bring them over your relic drg.
Bottom line make a weapon you are happy with and play the job as you see fit. Though it may not be the best dmg in game. At least you will have accomplished a personal goal.
[+]
at what level did the rhongomiant begin overtaking herjas and the oat out of curiosity.
Ophannus said: »
STR magian might pull ahead of OAT now due to the higher str/att and base damage. I'd say its something along the lines of:
Ryunohige>New Skirmish Augmented Polearm> Gungnir>Rhongomiant>Herja>STR magian>OAT>that new +1 AH polearm>Coalition Lance
Ryunohige>New Skirmish Augmented Polearm> Gungnir>Rhongomiant>Herja>STR magian>OAT>that new +1 AH polearm>Coalition Lance
I'm calling shenanigans on this. What changed in the last update to change the general polearm ranking?
I was under the impression that:
Mythic 90-99 > Gungir 99 > Herja's Fork > OAT Polearm > Gungir 95 > the rest.
If you consider Rhongomiant at 99 vs Gungir 99 would the defense down from Gungir lowering Angon effect edges Rhong? even thought your missing on 40 accuracy (also considering ODD from the empy)
When I enter in Rhongo99 on my spreadsheet with AM3, it beats out Gungnir, Herja and OAT(in VW, its not far behind Ryuno either since you can fulltime AM3 with wings). Is it hard to imagine that a 50% proc of ODD for 1.5 minutes with double march/haste would beat out Herja which has 18 less base damage and a small 3% chance of QA? 50% ODD is quite potent for high haste zergs. Of course this is only applicable for zergs where you can open with a 300% Camlann for the AM3, which with Meditate and both Jumps shouldn't be hard. Actually the only reason Gungnir pulls ahead of Rhongo endgame is due to the acc, which is pretty sad if you think about it. But with feint or a madrigal, Rhongo will win in short zergs by a landslide over everything but Ryuno.
A while back Mote said STR and OAT were about equal but STR pulls ahead slightly in various situations. With OAT you get higher Jump damage and a small increase to WS frequency(not as much as you would think) but your DoT and WS damage take a rather big hit.
From Motenten:
A while back Mote said STR and OAT were about equal but STR pulls ahead slightly in various situations. With OAT you get higher Jump damage and a small increase to WS frequency(not as much as you would think) but your DoT and WS damage take a rather big hit.
From Motenten:
Quote:
OAT has a higher delay, which somewhat offsets it's lower rounds per weaponskill. Overall weaponskill cycle time is 1095 delay for OAT, compared to 1400 for str polearm. So OAT weaponskills 28% more often than Str polearm.
Average weaponskill damage for OAT is 1202; for Str polearm it's 1436. So Str polearm weaponskill damage is 20% higher than OAT.
Jump damage is mildly in favor of OAT, being about 2.5% ahead of str polearm.
Melee (white) damage per cycle is nearly identical on a per-round basis (Str polearm 1% ahead), however Str polearm has 46% more melee rounds per weaponskill cycle, and overall 47% more melee damage per weaponskill cycle.
Overall net effect is 2268 dmg per 1095 delay for OAT (124 DPS) vs 2841 dmg per 1400 delay for Str polearm (122 DPS). The gear tweak above (Goading+Rose for proper 5-hit on OAT, loss of 2% haste for Str) gave a slight edge to OAT this time around.
Note that if you can reduce the average number of over-TP rounds, it favors the OAT build more than the Str build, and the OAT starts to pull slightly ahead. With 0 wasted TP rounds, OAT is at 132 to Str polearm's 130. However the converse is also true: the more over-TP rounds you average, the more the OAT falls behind the Str polearm.
Per-hit damage on jumps is about 23% higher with Str polearm (22% in Abyssea), but OAT closes the gap due to OAT procs and ends up doing 3% more total jump damage (4% less in Abyssea due to Apoc triple attack diminishing the value of OAT).
Taking out all jumps, so that we're looking solely at melee+weaponskill time, look at the melee time necessary to reach 100 TP with 25% gear haste, Hasso and Haste spell:
Str: 1186
OAT: 902
OAT weaponskills 31.5% more often
With weaponskill delay added:
Str: 1306
OAT: 1022
OAT weaponskills 27.8% more often
Add marches and look again:
Str: 605
OAT: 461
OAT weaponskills 31.2% more often (appears to be roughly the same as the first comparison)
With weaponskill delay added:
Str: 725
OAT: 581
OAT weaponskills 24.8% more often (dropped an additional 3%)
You can also figure another ~7% loss due to less efficient usage of TP (see below), which puts you close to the 40% proc rate value before accounting for weaponskill delay. Additional losses (relative to the supposed theoretical gain) come from less effective DA/TA.
And yes, I'm accounting for the greater TP from jumps on the OAT. Str polearm averages 59 from Soul Jump, for example, while OAT averages 82.
This would seem to indicate the str polearm is a pretty clear winner over OAT, by about 4%.
Average weaponskill damage for OAT is 1202; for Str polearm it's 1436. So Str polearm weaponskill damage is 20% higher than OAT.
Jump damage is mildly in favor of OAT, being about 2.5% ahead of str polearm.
Melee (white) damage per cycle is nearly identical on a per-round basis (Str polearm 1% ahead), however Str polearm has 46% more melee rounds per weaponskill cycle, and overall 47% more melee damage per weaponskill cycle.
Overall net effect is 2268 dmg per 1095 delay for OAT (124 DPS) vs 2841 dmg per 1400 delay for Str polearm (122 DPS). The gear tweak above (Goading+Rose for proper 5-hit on OAT, loss of 2% haste for Str) gave a slight edge to OAT this time around.
Note that if you can reduce the average number of over-TP rounds, it favors the OAT build more than the Str build, and the OAT starts to pull slightly ahead. With 0 wasted TP rounds, OAT is at 132 to Str polearm's 130. However the converse is also true: the more over-TP rounds you average, the more the OAT falls behind the Str polearm.
Per-hit damage on jumps is about 23% higher with Str polearm (22% in Abyssea), but OAT closes the gap due to OAT procs and ends up doing 3% more total jump damage (4% less in Abyssea due to Apoc triple attack diminishing the value of OAT).
Taking out all jumps, so that we're looking solely at melee+weaponskill time, look at the melee time necessary to reach 100 TP with 25% gear haste, Hasso and Haste spell:
Str: 1186
OAT: 902
OAT weaponskills 31.5% more often
With weaponskill delay added:
Str: 1306
OAT: 1022
OAT weaponskills 27.8% more often
Add marches and look again:
Str: 605
OAT: 461
OAT weaponskills 31.2% more often (appears to be roughly the same as the first comparison)
With weaponskill delay added:
Str: 725
OAT: 581
OAT weaponskills 24.8% more often (dropped an additional 3%)
You can also figure another ~7% loss due to less efficient usage of TP (see below), which puts you close to the 40% proc rate value before accounting for weaponskill delay. Additional losses (relative to the supposed theoretical gain) come from less effective DA/TA.
And yes, I'm accounting for the greater TP from jumps on the OAT. Str polearm averages 59 from Soul Jump, for example, while OAT averages 82.
This would seem to indicate the str polearm is a pretty clear winner over OAT, by about 4%.
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