Neck/back Combo Question For Tp Set

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Neck/back combo question for tp set
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By TinyAttorney 2013-03-02 08:34:39
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Given the following set:


(Aluh mainhand, obv)

Would I be better served full-timing Nefarious Collar/Rancorous Mantle or Rancor Collar/Atheling Mantle for tp?

Relevant merits (that I know of) are TA +5 and Crit Rate +5. Skadi's +1 will be out of reach for a long time, and I'm working on Mandau and Twashtar but don't know if either will be finished soon. Any other gear/slot advice is also welcome.

Thanks,
-TA
 Leviathan.Mdkuser
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By Leviathan.Mdkuser 2013-03-02 08:45:50
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rancor atheling.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Azryel
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By Ragnarok.Azryel 2013-03-02 09:39:00
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Here's what I use



I should probably swap out the feet, just haven't done it yet...

The extra crit % from rancor is nice, but I'm a taru, and that extra damage taken can really be problematic when taking an AoE to the face... Just my 2 cents.
 Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-03-02 11:01:17
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TinyAttorney said: »
Would I be better served full-timing Nefarious Collar/Rancorous Mantle or Rancor Collar/Atheling Mantle for tp?
You don't see consistent responses on this because they are extremely close and your buffs along with the mob target can give one a slight advantage over the other.

The raw trade is crit3 vs da3/att3 and you can see that stuff like +crit damage (Aluh, THF CAB trait, etc) and a high multihit rate (particularly QA/TA) favor crit3, whereas the opposites favor the latter. The attack difference is kind of a wash since higher attack devalues crits (a negative for nefarious in the comparison) but capped attack removes Atheling's 3 attack advantage from the comparison (a positive for nefarious).
 Leviathan.Mdkuser
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By Leviathan.Mdkuser 2013-03-02 11:17:33
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for nefarious to beat atheling a crit needs to do more than double damage basically, even with lots of +crit dmg gear its not going to happen unless fighting very high level mobs.

Normally a critical hit does +46%~+60% depending on attack and mob's def (and less once they modify the ratio cap).
 Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-03-02 11:40:21
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Leviathan.Mdkuser said: »
for nefarious to beat atheling a crit needs to do more than double damage basically, even with lots of +crit dmg gear its not going to happen unless fighting very high level mobs.

Normally a critical hit does +46%~+60% depending on attack and mob's def (and less once they modify the ratio cap).
Are you actually looking at THF in your sim or just applying what you know about MNK? DA is a lot less valuable on THF.

Also for reference:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/29391/best-dagger-for-thief/11/#2153735
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By TinyAttorney 2013-03-02 12:14:02
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Thanks for the quick replies and the good information everyone.

Az, I totally feel your pain, and I must admit that your set looks tempting.

And Suji, if I'm reading the breakdown in your link correctly, Nefarious/Rancorous would win on higher level mobs, and Rancor/Atheling would win on trash mobs?

But basically what you're telling me is, I can just sell my Nefarious/Rancorous, get inventory +2, and not really notice a huge difference overall?

Thanks again,
-TA
 Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-03-02 12:45:14
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I don't like to take hard sides in this particular debate because in probably less than an hour people are going to start arguing about whether or not Motenten's spreadsheet is more accurate than Pchan/Mdkuser's sim thing, which is why I posted only a napkin analysis above.

Mot's spreadsheet has Nefarious winning in some cases, even without extreme level correction, so you can take it for what it's worth, but you can make Rancor/Atheling win just as much. I don't personally believe that the difference is worth stressing over but I have both so I can change it up if it seems appropriate.

Here's the spreadsheet I'm referring to and you can feel free to PM me if you have any questions about getting it set up. You'll have to enable iterative calculations (for circular references) in your spreadsheet application for this particular version of the THF spreadsheet or you can use this version if you don't feel like messing with that.
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By TinyAttorney 2013-03-02 14:04:04
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Fantastic, thanks Suji.
 Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2013-03-05 16:35:51
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TinyAttorney said: »
But basically what you're telling me is, I can just sell my Nefarious/Rancorous, get inventory +2, and not really notice a huge difference overall?

Thanks again,
-TA

Nefarious/Rancor takes more of a lead inside abyssea and for Evisceration, up to you if they're worth spending on/toting around/macroing in. Also, you can use Nefarious as a non-DT+ DD neck if you want to reduce damage taken.

Outside, I'd mostly side with the multi-attack option (Rancor Collar+Atheling) for faster TP gain, which leads to more frequent opportunities to SA/TA WS (and thus more efficient use of said abilities). The difference between the two options is so minute I wouldn't be able to tell you which I was in without checking, so do what makes you happy.
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