How Do You Rate Your TH Level? By Base Or Proc?

Ok been getting a lil confused by LS, friends etc who say "I start at TH8 when I hit" yet when they say gear, they mention they only have arms, dagger, boots, which when added to Job trait, thats only TH7 base. So if others asked you, wouldnt you say you have TH7 and not TH8?

Yet so many people who have that TH7 base say they are TH8 thfs. So made me wonder, what does one really tell people in regards to TH, is it the base or your 1st proc you tell others? Thanks.

Either they're talking about Abyssea, which has a TH+1 atma, or they're talking about Conquest areas during Treasure Hound being active & sanction.

edit: Its almost gaurantee'd (almost being key word) to TH to 8 with SA feint, but after that its rediculous sometimes.

I've never heard anyone call themselves a TH8 THF, buuut, that aside, feint + sneak attack is almost a guaranteed TH8 proc, if you're wearing all TH gear. I've only seen it not proc a handful of times.

Best to just ignore those people

Wearing all TH gear is 7 and the first proc will give another level, which is 8. Either they are saying 8 because it procs often enough on the first TA/SA, or because they can't count.

Cap GoV prowess and I'm a TH10 THF.... or was that XI???

yea i would say i have 8 because gear gives you 7 like purpleeyes said and more than likely it will proc at least once

I sub thf and put up TH2 and get the same drop rate.

Im right there with you, people have told me TH7(gear max) and TH8(on proc). The way i see it is TH7 is max since thats the base value. Sure you can proc 8 on first hit but thats not 100%(albeit 95%). When im doing dynamis w/o thiefs dagger equipped i say i have TH6 becasue im not able to proc up on the first hit so thats what i have.

tldr; TH7

Thanks for the info. =)
Also whats your view on TH? Does it increase the drop rate or is it like "extra roll" at the current low drop rate for an item? Seen discussions going both ways.

From my understanding it is considered to be a 1% per level of TH drop increase.

I remember reading on some page about TH that because some mobs have a 100% drop rate split between two items that couldn't work. 99% for one thing and 1% for another or something, how would that 1% work? Drop rate is 102%? I've always understood it as another roll, but hey, not a thf and I just occasionally /thf I'm not too sure about how it all works.

There is no single known formula for TH. It behaves differently on different mobs with different types of treasure pools (I know of at least 3 different formulas, each of which only works when applied to a certain type of loot pool, and sometimes TH level), and the amount of data needed for an accurate estimate is beyond most people's willingness to test.

For something with a 100% drop split between items (sometimes two, sometimes more), it might have no effect at all, or it might shift the percentages. Since, as far as I know, the only mobs with such pools are NMs, the testing for such an effect would be inordinately annoying, and at best would take months to complete.

Ok, so after you proc your 1st hit, do you all normally change out to your main gear, or do you all prefer keeping all TH stuff on?

The TH you put on a mob can not go down, whether you proc it up or not.

Touch it with TH gear and then swap to damage gear and you're good to go. If you want to level the TH up for whatever reason, then keep your TH gear on.

Most people still belive the first proc is when "TH lands" and that the amount the first proc gives is the base TH.
Probably why.

no you dont, in your eyes you do, in the grand scheme thing of things, you dont.

This is kind of a random question but a good place to post it but... A lot of people are still under the impression that if the thief dies or warps out after tagging TH. TH is lost.

This whole time I thought TH was some sort of status effect placed on the mob and doesn't wear off unless it goes idle. Who's in the wrong here?

I've always thought that TH was only applied to the monster when the THF was on the hate list, which dying takes you off the hate list. I don't know for certain or not, but it seems to me that would be the case. However, I can also understand the status effect on mob until idle/dead, because of how Abyssea procs work.

no, that's actually exactly how it works. TH is a "debuff" that stays on the mob until you wipe or it goes passive.

Actually, yes, I do. I'm sorry if that's upsetting to you. I've played THF with TH7 and I've played /THF with TH2. There isn't a discernible difference in drop rate. I've made 3 empyreans, 2 of them to 90 using thf and /thf and had similar drop rates for the items and the pop items. I've farmed dyna as /thf and parsed similar drop rates as Motenten's parses using THF with TH6. If I'm not mistaken, Motenten parsed himself in dynamis using just TH3 and had similar drop rates to his TH6.

But hey, if it makes you feel better, you keep sitting there procing up that TH as much as you can. It's all about the warm fuzzy feeling anyway, right?

Wow, you seem like a ***.

except no you don't. The difference between TH2 and TH7 may not be magnificent or immediately eye-ballable, But its there. Eyeballing a bunch of Empyrean upgrades and some Dynamis is not accurate.

I'll be the first to say the difference between TH2/3 and TH9/10 is way to darn small, But its still there, and it will still add up in your favor in the long run with TH6-7 over TH2. So if you're getting faster Killspeed/Similar killspeed on THF as you are on whatever /THF you're doing, THF is going to give you better numbers in the end.

And to be clear, This isn't to the "Similar", its to the bolded part above.

Why would Square Enix give the chance to upgrade TH effectiveness if it didn't add any extra chances to get drops? That would make Thiefs completely pointless and people should stop playing the job.

Kind of a shitty argument, seeing is how rdm has been utterly useless for a long long time. But yes it's not THAT big a difference but there is a difference between TH2 and TH10 (obviously)

I have a THF with max TH, and I have a BST with TH1 using pets. I also have DRK with no TH at all. After so many years of playing around, watching drop rates, having a THF around for drops is very useful.

If you really wanted to win the national lottery, you would have better chances if you bought eight tickets, then one or two. So bring a Thief along, and don't think about the numbers too much, otherwise it just leads to silly arguments where people say having a Thief is useless.

Also RDM has nothing to do with this.

Higher TH does matter on certain MOBS. Now for Peldin and so. What mobs are you fighting that you dont notice a difference on?

For my mobs, the ones you REALLY want a certain item for, Higher TH has helped ensure a drop. Seen it too many times.

Tho I dont understand the different TH brackets myself per diff mob areas.

Why would SE give us higher level weaponskills that are worse than lower level weaponskills? Why would SE code item drops from difficult areas that are worse than item drops from easier areas? (Rhetorical questions btw)

SE does all kinds of pointless things. Allowing TH to go up is just one of those things. I'm not saying it doesn't increase drop rate at all. I'm saying that the difference is so miniscule that it is EFFECTIVELY pointless.


Apparently you didn't read the part where I said I parsed the drop rates. Obviously empyrean items have too small of a sample size to be accurate, but there is no "long run" when it comes to empyrean drops anyway. I've farmed Glavoid for several friends now and seen TH make no difference at all.
Now, add to the fact that THF feeds way more tp than NIN, increasing the amount of times he will TP, which in turns decreases the amount of damage you can do. It is much more valuable to just go NIN/THF. In my experience and from observation of drop rates, doing more damage is FAR FAR FAR more valuable than increasing levels of TH.

I agree with this. But I think it is a rare thing for people to have a THF that does more damage than their other jobs. I'm sure there are situations like this, but it is not the norm because THF is just not as good of a DD without superior gear/weapons.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the THF job is completely worthless. If I were leading events, I would still have one for the slight increase in TH, and because the extra alliance spot wouldn't be necessary for a win. Also Feint has it's value for certain events.

I just think the whole process of leveling up TH is a complete and utterly pointless feature that SE wasted their time on.

From my experience with farming a lot of Empyrean items on SMN with zero TH, double drops aren't that uncommon anyway. I would say TH won't make as much of a difference on an already high drop rate than on something with a much worse drop rate.

I don't agree with you otherwise though. You're basically saying TH2 = TH7 and that is not true. For this to be true the TH formula, whatever the heck it actually is, would need to round the TH modifier down to 2 when it's above 2. I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that it does not do that. Whatever the exact formula for TH calculations is, the extra TH is being factored in somehow. It just might be so marginal you don't notice.

Also, parsing drop rates doesn't prove an awful lot. If parsing drops is such a reliable way of determining how TH works, explain how somebody can go 0/500 on an NM drop and somebody else goes 1/1?

It's called luck, we innately look for ways of justifying our good or bad luck throughout life... But unlike life, the formulas we're attributing luck to are just that... fixed mathematical formulas with fixed parameters. You can say TH2 = TH7 as much as you like but it's not true and never will be.

And in doing so, you're only coming across as a very stubborn person determined to argue a point that is mathematically incorrect - the very worst kind.

The national lottery has just as much to do with this as RDM. You obviously missed his point. He was making an example of how SE does things that are pointless. They do it all the time, in almost every single update.

According to the testing that HAS been done on BG, the difference between TH2 and TH8 is very very miniscule. Comparing lottery tickets to levels of TH is no where near an accurate representation. I do understand your point though. Drops are random. It's a matter of luck for every drop. I'm just a firm believer that doing more damage is more valuable than taking TH past level 2