Staff On Dd Whm Viable ?

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Staff on dd whm viable ?
 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2012-12-24 03:52:53
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if we just forget about DW for a moment (this is mainly backline mule)

is staff a viable DD whm Solutions? all my other gear swaps have staff so i wanna avoid swaping from a dd set with club and shield to a idle set where the refresh/regen grib does not swap in properly
 
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By 2012-12-24 03:58:04
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-12-24 04:01:01
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Phoenix.Gaiarorshack said: »
dd set with club and shield to a idle set where the refresh/regen grib does not swap in properly

Place staff in precast, grip in midcast.
 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-12-24 05:26:11
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I find that having both staff and grip in the precast works if you make the macro swap all 14-16 pieces at once and put weapon at top and sub at the bottom. The split-seconds caused by switching the other 10 slots is enough for the game to register you put a staff on.

That aside though, I'm not understanding why you would want to melee in a situation where you would need to switch weapon or sub in any capacity since that'd make you lose TP.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-12-24 05:52:54
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Indeed, my melee WHM cure sets don't switch out my weapon.
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 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2012-12-24 08:02:56
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Indeed, my melee WHM cure sets don't switch out my weapon.
mine does neither. but thats irrelevant.
you don't go to idle set after a kill?


Leviathan.Kincard said: »
That aside though, I'm not understanding why you would want to melee in a situation where you would need to switch weapon or sub in any capacity since that'd make you lose TP.
who said anything about swaping weapons during a fight?


Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Place staff in precast, grip in midcast.
its for idle set so it will be in "aftercast" i really dont want refresh in any precast/midtcast situtions i believe.


this is the situation im talking about
"swaping from a dd set with club and shield to a idle set" e.g. end of a fight since when is idling during melee?)
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-12-24 08:11:13
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You're making it pretty hard to understand exactly what you mean:P
But yes, Staff works as long as you have shattersoul and a set for it.
 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2012-12-24 08:17:08
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well i can try again.

at the end of fight once you are donr hitting the mob with club and shield. i swap back to idle gear with staff and grib.

at that time its not always equiping my refresh/regen grib so im Running around with one less refresh and regen until i cast a spell (which is purely staves for precast midtcast and then aftercast)

DD gear so far is the little MB club + genbu shield
idle gear set is earth staff and refresh/regen grib
 Leviathan.Veltan
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By Leviathan.Veltan 2012-12-24 08:20:55
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To put as simply as possible, the biggest way to kill your DDing is to lose your TP, even between fights.

If you want the regen/refresh grip on your staff you should keep the staff and grip equipped. If you want to DD with club and shield, don't switch to staff/grip and lose your TP.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-12-24 08:28:02
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If you're DDing, you should never switch weapons at all.
So, if you wanna DD, just lock your weapons and never switch them out.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-12-24 08:30:17
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Also, most people use staffs for spells then switch to owleyes/genbu in idle :P
 Asura.Werdxi
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By Asura.Werdxi 2012-12-24 08:35:05
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probly easier to get a tefnut wand and genbu augment and stick to club and realmrazer. i can main hand my KC and do more dmg via realmrazer than using my fulcrum pole and any staff ws. id imagine tefnut would easily do even more. if you're fighting something easy enough to allow a whm to not only be in range of the mobs aoe, but feed TP, you dont need to macro out weapons for enfeebles and ect so might as well stck to a weapon that actually hurts.
 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2012-12-24 08:48:59
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i don't see the the sacrifice in running around in dd weapons when mostly a back line mule is not worth the trade of for the extra dd from keeping tp between fight.

That would basically means that i would not be using cure staff, & curecast staff, no beneficus, no iridal. so i will be curing less. Getting less refresh & regen. Giving weaker boost and bar spells to the pt, and doing weaker enfeebles to mob and nm's.


owleyes + genbu in idle = refresh and +10magical damage received
earth staff + grib = refresh and regen -20% physical dmg received
i prefer getting one more regen and -20 physical dmg received instead of +10% magical dmg received

never the less ima try out kincards solutions first and if not find a good DD staff
 Leviathan.Kincard
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By Leviathan.Kincard 2012-12-24 08:50:35
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Quote:
at the end of fight once you are donr hitting the mob with club and shield. i swap back to idle gear with staff and grib.

This is a bad idea. If you're trying to deal damage for some reason (help proc in Dynamis, I guess?) losing TP between fights is a bad. Just stick to wearing your meleeing staff and oneiros grip full time if you really want the refresh that much.

If you're in a situation where your other magey weapons (curestick, beneficus etc) are indispensable, you shouldn't be meleeing to begin with.

Quote:
i can main hand my KC and do more dmg via realmrazer than using my fulcrum pole and any staff ws. id imagine tefnut would easily do even more.

I've actually always been a bit curious how a WHM/SAM using a Plenitas Virga would compare to a non-relic clubbing WHM/NIN. I guess the lower skill really hurts it though.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-12-24 08:51:08
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If you're in a situation where you need the extra stats from all the weapon-swaps that bad, you probably want to keep your mage out of melee range anyways.
 Ragnarok.Ghishlain
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By Ragnarok.Ghishlain 2012-12-24 08:56:03
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Pretty much what is mentioned above. You can build some pretty solid gear sets while full timing a melee weapon + grips. If you want to stay "supporty" while hitting things with a staff, just full time chatoyant staff with a Refersh grip (if you have it) and spam Cataclysm. This way you have a good weapon for a good WS and a weapon that is also decent for your support aspects while you're hitting face.

The biggest alternation to not using Tefnut or Akra IV is your cure potency set, everything else will more or less remain the same.
 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2012-12-24 08:56:39
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Asura.Werdxi said: »
probly easier to get a tefnut wand and genbu augment and stick to club and realmrazer. i can main hand my KC and do more dmg via realmrazer than using my fulcrum pole and any staff ws. id imagine tefnut would easily do even more. if you're fighting something easy enough to allow a whm to not only be in range of the mobs aoe, but feed TP, you dont need to macro out weapons for enfeebles and ect so might as well stck to a weapon that actually hurts.

But that another club.
Would still give issues swapping from the dd set to idle set once the fight is over.
 Ragnarok.Ghishlain
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By Ragnarok.Ghishlain 2012-12-24 09:01:04
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Phoenix.Gaiarorshack said: »
Asura.Werdxi said: »
probly easier to get a tefnut wand and genbu augment and stick to club and realmrazer. i can main hand my KC and do more dmg via realmrazer than using my fulcrum pole and any staff ws. id imagine tefnut would easily do even more. if you're fighting something easy enough to allow a whm to not only be in range of the mobs aoe, but feed TP, you dont need to macro out weapons for enfeebles and ect so might as well stck to a weapon that actually hurts.

But that another club.
Would still give issues swapping from the dd set to idle set once the fight is over.

The point of the matter is, it's too inefficient to be swapping between an idle set and a DD set because the lose of TP is a huge hit to WHM DPS. This is why if you're going to be DDing on WHM at a time, you should lock your main and sub in to something you'll want to full time.
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 Bismarck.Tragedie
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By Bismarck.Tragedie 2012-12-24 09:15:52
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I'd go for one of these scenarios (or a combination:

A. Lock your WHM's weapons, unless MP is less than 50% (or whatever percentage you'd want that extra tick).

B. When idle and going back to your idle set, only swap weapons if TP is less than 20 (or whatever threshhold you care about keeping TP).

I should also note that I have my mage's spellcast written to not swap weapons while engaged.


If I was having my whm melee, I'd personally just lock the weapons and pick the weapon that covers whatever bases I need (weapon type, cure potency, -DT, whatever). If I'm already sacrificing not swapping out staves for fast cast / cure potency / enhancing bonus / whatever, I'm probably not going to sweat it if I lose 1 mp/tic.

I guess it's just a balance - is having your WHM with a DD weapon worth sacrificing the bonus you'd get to cast speed/potency? On some content it probably doesn't matter, so why not?


Anyway, if you need help with any of the spellcast scripts for the above functions, let me know. Good luck
 Asura.Werdxi
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By Asura.Werdxi 2012-12-24 10:34:19
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Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
Phoenix.Gaiarorshack said: »
Asura.Werdxi said: »
probly easier to get a tefnut wand and genbu augment and stick to club and realmrazer. i can main hand my KC and do more dmg via realmrazer than using my fulcrum pole and any staff ws. id imagine tefnut would easily do even more. if you're fighting something easy enough to allow a whm to not only be in range of the mobs aoe, but feed TP, you dont need to macro out weapons for enfeebles and ect so might as well stck to a weapon that actually hurts.
But that another club. Would still give issues swapping from the dd set to idle set once the fight is over.
The point of the matter is, it's too ineffective to be swapping between an idle set and a DD set because the lose of TP is a huge hit to WHM DPS. This is why if you're going to be DDing on WHM at a time, you should lock your main and sub in to something you'll want to full time.

Plus if you're hurting on MP from the highely demanded refresh set, just Boon. your hits suck. you dont have double attack and your attack sucks too. you hit it here and there and throw a Realmrazer for 1.5k or boon for 500. those are extrememly acceptable numbers for any whm. you REALLY dont need all the benefits of the main-hand gear swaps on most things. mobs don't resist enfeebles like ever, and you can easily cap cure% w/o a main hand. You can have the DD whm or you can have the super-suport whm. but having both is basically not going to happen.
 Phoenix.Gaiarorshack
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By Phoenix.Gaiarorshack 2012-12-24 16:33:08
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Ragnarok.Ghishlain said: »
Phoenix.Gaiarorshack said: »
Asura.Werdxi said: »
probly easier to get a tefnut wand and genbu augment and stick to club and realmrazer. i can main hand my KC and do more dmg via realmrazer than using my fulcrum pole and any staff ws. id imagine tefnut would easily do even more. if you're fighting something easy enough to allow a whm to not only be in range of the mobs aoe, but feed TP, you dont need to macro out weapons for enfeebles and ect so might as well stck to a weapon that actually hurts.

But that another club.
Would still give issues swapping from the dd set to idle set once the fight is over.

The point of the matter is, it's too inefficient to be swapping between an idle set and a DD set because the lose of TP is a huge hit to WHM DPS. This is why if you're going to be DDing on WHM at a time, you should lock your main and sub in to something you'll want to full time.


all valid if the purpose of the whm was to be dd'ing which is not in my case.
The dd is an added bonus and i don't wish to sacrifice anything on his main purpose when its not needed.

his main function is to support the pt. when thats is not needed he will be dd'ing. Under engaged status he will not be swapping weapons.
once done with the mob or nm he will be in a downtime not killing and thats when i want him to be sure to swap back to a backline optimized idle set and not a dd optimized set.

perma locking weapons for DD'ing while not engaged to keep tp between fights is not a trade of I'm interested in since it will be ineffective compared on his time used in engaged vs backline.
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-12-24 16:57:34
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Lock club and use mystic boon if mp is needed, pretty simple.
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By Ragnarok.Ghishlain 2012-12-24 17:20:37
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Phoenix.Gaiarorshack said: »
all valid if the purpose of the whm was to be dd'ing which is not in my case.
The dd is an added bonus and i don't wish to sacrifice anything on his main purpose when its not needed.

his main function is to support the pt. when thats is not needed he will be dd'ing. Under engaged status he will not be swapping weapons.
once done with the mob or nm he will be in a downtime not killing and thats when i want him to be sure to swap back to a backline optimized idle set and not a dd optimized set.

perma locking weapons for DD'ing while not engaged to keep tp between fights is not a trade of I'm interested in since it will be ineffective compared on his time used in engaged vs backline.

If you're not planning to DD efficiently, you might as well not DD at all. The power of a WHMs weaponskills are not to be triffled with. Are they top tier? Hell no. Are they still decent damage - yes they are. If you're planning to go in just the poke at the monster, you might as well not do it at all for two reasons:

1) Your overall damage is going to be pitiful where the impact your DDing is having on the target is peanuts compared to the rest of your party
2) You're feeding TP to a mob for no reason. If the mob has a few AoEs or just TP moves that can spike to a decent number, that just puts more of a strain on your supporting aspect of your healer, thus resulting in what I feel is an overall net loss in efficiency (of course that term is used liberally and efficiency is certainly in the eye of a behold in the case of supporting)

Anything you'll be DDing will die before you'll get to 100% TP if you're going in with a solid DD in tow.

That's why I proposed earlier you should just full time a chatoyant staff. Cataclysm damage isn't bad with that particular staff and it's got enough supporting stats on it where you won't lose a lot of efficiency on your cures or enfeebles. If the MP does start to get low, you'll still have Spirit Taker as a backup MP regeneration source. It won't have great returns with the above staff, but it can work in a pinch.

If you still insist on trying to do everything at once, than I would like to consider this discussion closed. A lot of posters above have stated you should full time your weapons to make it more reasonable to DD as a WHM. The numbers you can add to a fray with just auto attacking is negligible at best at the cost of your efficiency as a support role.
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 Shiva.Tahngarthor
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By Shiva.Tahngarthor 2012-12-24 17:26:24
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came here to say that if you want to have fun with melee on WHM, you should do it with clubs instead of a staff. WHM gets better skill in club and club WS are in general better with the possible exception of shattersoul.
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By Asura.Pergatory 2012-12-27 10:11:47
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How bad do you really need that Owleyes in your idle set on a meleeing mule? Listen to what everyone is telling you, don't bother. If you're going to melee on your mule, don't swap weapons at all.

It's not hard to come up with a melee set that has a few points of refresh that doesn't involve swapping weapons. If it's that big of a problem, unlock Mystic Boon. It converts 100 TP into 300-600 MP or sometimes more depending on what you're fighting.

If you're dead set on doing this, then you need to fix up your idle set. That's where the problem lies. Put the weapon as the first swap and the sub as the last swap, see if that helps. If it still isn't swapping, you might need to make two macros, or add more lines in between the two. Again though, I strongly discourage you from doing this, it's counterproductive. If you're in a situation where a WHM has any business meleeing, then it's foolish to throw away TP.
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