MACC Affinity Staves. [Flame Wars]

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MACC Affinity Staves. [Flame Wars]
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 Cerberus.Mindi
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By Cerberus.Mindi 2012-12-11 04:49:42
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duelist's chapeau +2 with augment might be a good choice for the MACC-Slow Set aswell. It has Augment to enhance Slow II duration, 5% for each merit.. since well.. when you use a MACC Set you "fear" that it wont land, so more duration might be nice. If you cant get Hyaline Af3+2 head seems good. (Since i guess you wont have/easy get an Iaso mitra or Spurrina coif)

tbh not even sure how much MND someone would need today since the potency probably has a low cap.. i remeber reading somewhere that the cap is still like 75.
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By Methylated 2012-12-11 04:59:50
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I also have no idea, Allthough if it is low cap all that still adds to the MACC overall anyway!

I do have one burning question though....

I wonder if Immunobreak works better overall if you have a high MACC Enfeeb skill?
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By Methylated 2012-12-11 05:14:05
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Seen!

Cheers
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 08:59:12
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Well as long as it lands with +2 body and a half decent mnd set potency will be capped on pretty much anything it will land on, this is true. Rdm is by no means dead other jobs just do what it does and more.
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-12-11 11:14:13
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Kin37ix said: »
Methylated said: »
I also have no idea, Allthough if it is low cap all that still adds to the MACC overall anyway!

No, it doesn't.
Are you saying Mnd doesn't add to macc for slow and para or am I reading this wrong?
 Shiva.Arana
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By Shiva.Arana 2012-12-11 11:15:17
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Kin37ix said: »
Methylated said: »
I also have no idea, Allthough if it is low cap all that still adds to the MACC overall anyway!

No, it doesn't.
Yes, it does.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 12:34:30
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Correct, skill = macc, mnd = potency... Why the hell else would you build a macc staff?
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-12-11 12:51:03
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From BGwiki:

Quote:
dSTAT : The difference between a caster's attribute and the same attribute on the target.
+1 Stat = +1 Magic Accuracy until dSTAT > 10 at which point 1 Stat = 0.5 Magic Accuracy

For as long as I've played, I've always been under the assumption that mnd provided a boost, albeit small, to the magic accuracy as well the potency boost. You're saying this is wrong, where does your info come from?
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 14:20:59
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That indicates that dstat works as dDex does for crit rate. But if it does in fact work that way, you'd likely gear the same either way.
 Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-12-11 14:50:16
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Kin37ix said: »
One all encompassing quote from bg wiki doestn't mean anything. For some spells, it's been tested to be true however. (int contributes to macc on nukes for example)

Where does your info come from? All those RDM back at 75 cap carrying around an accuracy set and a potency set must have been misinformed.

wat

Ye old enfeebler carried around two sets because particular targets required immense amounts of macc to reliably land a spell. Full potency builds weren't entirely devoid of macc, but their +60 MND slow set was offering in the neighborhood of 30 macc, where as their dedicated macc builds were sporting more than double that amount.

Regardless, basing your argument on what players did back when our mechanical libraries were in their infancy is asinine.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 15:08:37
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The fact is at this point in time you have even more reason to carry 2 sets. The macc staves should allow you to gear straight potency anyway.
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-12-11 15:10:50
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I agree and disagree. I'd say there's about as much reason to carry both sets now as there was back then. Both then and now, the difference between the two extremes was/is pretty significant.
 Phoenix.Kaparu
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 15:52:35
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And what is your basis for believing that isn't the case?

dINT plays a part in potency and accuracy for traditional black magic, and given that we know that dMND plays a part in traditional white magic potency, it follows that it also has a hand in accuracy.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 16:45:19
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That's not how the fallacy of four terms works.

It is how the fallacy of the false analogy works, though.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 16:47:40
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What you're doing is concluding that a universal property of a closed system ceases to apply to an individual branch of that system, based on, as far as you've chosen to divulge, absolutely nothing.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 17:04:49
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Phoenix.Kaparu said: »
What you're doing is concluding that a universal property of a closed system ceases to apply to an individual branch of that system, based on, as far as you've chosen to divulge, absolutely nothing.
You have also failed to give any supporting evidence besides a snippet paraphrased from a BGwiki page you didn't link. Not saying that its wrong, but the difference between nukes and enfeebles as a mechanic are very different, and to assume that stats affect them equally is a fallacy as well.

Nukes can get half, quarter, sixth, etc resists, enfeebles either land or they don't and at that time the potency is determinded for the remainder of the duration. While a stat like MND may affect the duration being halved as a partial resist, I'd file that under potency, not acc. When was the last time you saw a nuke flat out resisted or a message saying that a monster is immune to that nuke?

By your logic the mechanics of WS's should be universal as well, when we know that they are not.
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 Phoenix.Kaparu
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:12:17
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Ignoring that examples of minimized enfeebling durations do exist, it appears as if you didn't read what I said.

I'm not claiming that all spells function identically, I'm claiming that there exists a single universal property of traditional spell resistance: the category's primary attribute influences accuracy. This holds true across the board for all types of offensive spells, so assuming that it doesn't apply to offensive white magic is absolutely baseless.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:13:23
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If nothing else, you two have a remarkable knack for presenting false analogies.

(the fact that fSTR plays a part in every physical weapon skill very soundly supports what I'm suggestion)
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:16:40
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Proof is a matter of perspective; what I have is unrelenting precedence.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:17:40
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And stop with the tall doctor spiel. That isn't in any way parallel.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 17:18:59
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Phoenix.Kaparu said: »
Ignoring that examples of minimized enfeebling durations do exist, it appears as if you didn't read what I said. I'm not claiming that all spells function identically, I'm claiming that there exists a single universal property of traditional spell resistance: the category's primary attribute influences accuracy. This holds true across the board for all types of offensive spells, so assuming that it doesn't apply to offensive white magic is absolutely baseless.

we never said it didn't have bearing on things like durration, because it does, we are talking about potency vs accuracy, and in that category, though mnd may have some effect on the general term "accuracy", it has far more effect on potency. The way its proposed as dMND, stacking it only affects accuracy to a point and only (assuming you are correct) at HALF the value of actual accuracy stats like Macc and enfeebling skill. Neither of which affect the way you would gear in either situation.
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By Odin.Jassik 2012-12-11 17:20:53
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I'm talking about fSTR affecting Accuracy, when you know as well as I do, STR and ACC have nothing to do with each other as far as a WS is concerned.
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By Phoenix.Kaparu 2012-12-11 17:25:01
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Duration is relevant. In some instances, the accuracy of enfeeblement manifests itself in duration rather than potency or outright inapplicability.

And I'm not sure why you're trying to make a case for the relative efficacy of stacking a base attribute in lieu of raw magic accuracy. That's both subjective and irrelevant.

Your partner over there is suggesting that a universal property of offensive magic ceases to exist with a particular branch because.. I don't know. He has yet to explain why. I'm responding to that assertion and no other.
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