Steel Cyclone Gear Help

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2010-09-08
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Steel Cyclone Gear Help
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 Asura.Davinia
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By Asura.Davinia 2009-06-08 08:36:34
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Just wondering if you guys could give me some advice on Steel Cyclone gear. If poss use the FFXIAH item funcition or FFXIgear.com

Thanx in advance!
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 08:41:35
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Str first > Vit second. Except in cases where Vit could vastly out match the possible Str you could get in the same slot. (IE Genbuto vs. anything other than Heca Cap.)
 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-06-08 09:29:57
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SC is all about the STR and DA with secondary consideration to VIT and Attack. Being a single hit you don't need to worry about acc that much.

This would be very nice

Downgrade options
Body: Adaman berk -> Hauberk +1 -> Hauberk
Head: NQ cap -> Genbu -> Askar -> Unicorn
Neck: Fort torque -> chiv chain
Hands/Feet: NQ heca
Back: Foragers -> HQ amemet
Legs: Relic +1 -> Relic
 Bismarck.Simtny
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By Bismarck.Simtny 2009-06-08 09:49:45
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http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=87632
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 09:50:38
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Weapon: Bravura > Martial > Perdu
Sub: Pole Grip > Brave Grip (ONLY if your going to SC with MS and WC on)
Ranged: Ifrit's Bow
Ammo: Bomb Core (If you don't have Ifrit's bow)
Head: Heca Cap > Genbuto > Orc Hat > Askar > Unicorn
Neck: Gorget (Get this!) > Justice Torq > Ein Str neck > Fort Torq > CC
Ear1: Vampire Earring (If night) > Triumph/Bushi
Ear2: Brutal Earring (If not using WC) > Vampire (If using WC and night) > Triumph
Body: Ares > Osode > Adaberk > Zahak's Mail > Berk
Hands: Alkys > Pallas > HQ heca > NQ heca/Ice Gauntlets
Ring1: Flame/Triumph > Ruby
Ring2: Rajas > Flame/Triumph > Ruby
Back: Cerb+1 > Forager > Amemet+1
Waist: Warwolf Belt > Warrior's Stone
Legs: Hachiryu > Ares (If not using WC) > Aurum > Relic
Feet: HQ Heca > NQ heca > Rutter's/Merman's
 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-06-08 10:01:39
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Ok looks like I forgot a few items that others have pointed out.

Another thing to consider, if you are using it stacked with Trick attack you may want to consider using a few items like Shark grip, cerb mantel instead of foragers, relic legs and askar feet.

You will lose a bit of damage (a few percent), but 'make'quite a bit more hate for your tank.

Obviously some testing would be needed to find the best balance between pure damage and enmity.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 10:02:22
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Argettio said:
Ok looks like I forgot a few items that others have pointed out.

Another thing to consider, if you are using it stacked with Trick attack you may want to consider using a few items like Shark grip, cerb mantel instead of foragers, relic legs and askar feet.

You will lose a bit of damage (a few percent), but 'make'quite a bit more hate for your tank.

Obviously some testing would be needed to find the best balance between pure damage and enmity.


If your using SC for TA then your doing it wrong.
 Gilgamesh.Tallulah
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By Gilgamesh.Tallulah 2009-06-08 10:16:01
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is there a calculator somewhere you can enter your setups in to see what kind of dmg you will do? curious cause I have questions about melee gear sometimes since I am mainly a mage.
 Asura.Davinia
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By Asura.Davinia 2009-06-08 10:18:37
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ok thanks for all your comments some great gear to work towards =)

To save this from getting derailed and moved to Flame Core the train graveyard, admins can lock.

Thanx Davi
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 10:18:54
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Tallulah said:
is there a calculator somewhere you can enter your setups in to see what kind of dmg you will do? curious cause I have questions about melee gear sometimes since I am mainly a mage.


No, because they are way way too many factors involved. Mob, debuffs, buffs, food, other gear, race, merits etc.

Your best bet is to just ask.
 Shiva.Jimmyjazz
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By Shiva.Jimmyjazz 2009-06-08 12:36:32
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Not great but this is my current SC swap.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=51393
 Kujata.Jennypoo
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By Kujata.Jennypoo 2009-06-08 12:38:53
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forbeus's post looks like a great setup.
 Pandemonium.Isiolia
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By Pandemonium.Isiolia 2009-06-08 13:27:57
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Tallulah said:
is there a calculator somewhere you can enter your setups in to see what kind of dmg you will do? curious cause I have questions about melee gear sometimes since I am mainly a mage.


Kinda

As mentioned, it's dependent on a number of factors. If you can account for those, then you can figure out what the maximum would be, and the spreadsheet in that link can help you do that.

Usually though, you're basically looking at that for a general comparison, or what has a better potential moreso than results you'll see 100% of the time.
 Fenrir.Krazyrs
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By Fenrir.Krazyrs 2009-06-08 13:33:03
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my set
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=85034
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 13:51:40
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Pretty nice setup, do you have an osode, or any other legs than haidate?
The only thing your getting from haidate is ~11 or 12 acc. Can def replace with something better.
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2009-06-08 14:24:25
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Frobeus said:
Str first > Vit second. Except in cases where Vit could vastly out match the possible Str you could get in the same slot.


Could you explain this plz? I've never really understood why one modifier would be 'vastly' better than the other when they both have 50% modifier. Ditto w/ people saying Dex >>>> Chr for Thief Dancing Edge. ty ^^
 Unicorn.Excesspain
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By Unicorn.Excesspain 2009-06-08 14:27:18
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Altar said:
Frobeus said:
Str first > Vit second. Except in cases where Vit could vastly out match the possible Str you could get in the same slot.


Could you explain this plz? I've never really understood why one modifier would be 'vastly' better than the other when they both have 50% modifier. Ditto w/ people saying Dex >>>> Chr for Thief Dancing Edge. ty ^^

STR helps break through a mobs DEF and the other mods don't.

I think that's why.
 Shiva.Jimmyjazz
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By Shiva.Jimmyjazz 2009-06-08 14:28:09
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Altar said:
Frobeus said:
Str first > Vit second. Except in cases where Vit could vastly out match the possible Str you could get in the same slot.


Could you explain this plz? I've never really understood why one modifier would be 'vastly' better than the other when they both have 50% modifier. Ditto w/ people saying Dex >>>> Chr for Thief Dancing Edge. ty ^^


In this case STR gives you attack as well as the mod where VIT will only give you the boost to the modifier.

and I'm guessing for Dancing Edge dex increases your chance of crits where chr won't?
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 14:35:18
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Altar said:
Frobeus said:
Str first > Vit second. Except in cases where Vit could vastly out match the possible Str you could get in the same slot.


Could you explain this plz? I've never really understood why one modifier would be 'vastly' better than the other when they both have 50% modifier. Ditto w/ people saying Dex >>>> Chr for Thief Dancing Edge. ty ^^


For SC STR is not only a mod of the WS itself but STR also provides Att as well as the whole fstr math, which God knows I'd buther that to hell.
Would be something good to look up elsewhere, unless someone reading can explain it easily.

For DE there are a few things to look at. First if you are using DE with SA, dex is a direct modifier not only on DE but on SA as well, so you pick up damage there. Even if you aren't using SA, Dex is going to give you some amount of acc as well, which is very nice for a WS like DE that is multi hit.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 14:37:24
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Edit: For STR every 5-6 str or something like that, up's your base damage. So increaseing STR is doing alot more than something like VIT that is affecting the WS only.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 14:40:29
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Jimmyjazz said:
Altar said:
Frobeus said:
Str first > Vit second. Except in cases where Vit could vastly out match the possible Str you could get in the same slot.


Could you explain this plz? I've never really understood why one modifier would be 'vastly' better than the other when they both have 50% modifier. Ditto w/ people saying Dex >>>> Chr for Thief Dancing Edge. ty ^^


In this case STR gives you attack as well as the mod where VIT will only give you the boost to the modifier.

and I'm guessing for Dancing Edge dex increases your chance of crits where chr won't?


Dex will increase the first hit of DE if it is a forced Crit by SA. DE itself cannot naturally crit, so increasing dex will not help in this regard. Remember, only WS's that in their description say (TP increases crit rate) can crit on their own without being forced by SA or MS.
 Shiva.Jimmyjazz
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By Shiva.Jimmyjazz 2009-06-08 14:41:49
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While on the subject, Frobeus or anyone else who could answer, Warrior's Mufflers vs. Pallas/Alky bracelets; pros and cons?

edit:
Frobeus said:
Dex will increase the first hit of DE if it is a forced Crit by SA. DE itself cannot naturally crit, so increasing dex will not help in this regard. Remember, only WS's that in their description say (TP increases crit rate) can crit on their own without being forced by SA or MS.

Ahh, wasn't sure if Dancing Edge could crit from dex alone, I thought it would as it's multi hit, I'm no thief XD
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2009-06-08 14:49:33
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Altar said:
Could you explain this plz? I've never really understood why one modifier would be 'vastly' better than the other when they both have 50% modifier. Ditto w/ people saying Dex >>>> Chr for Thief Dancing Edge. ty ^^


WS damage equation: (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * Pdif
D = Weapon DMG
fSTR = STR-VIT function
WSC = Weaponskill mod
fTP = TP modifier, first hit only
Pdif = Attack/Defence function

Using Dancing Edge as an example, 30% DEX 40% CHR and assuming it is UNSTACKED;

Adding DEX increases WSC [and accuracy which doesn't show up in the equation]
Adding CHR increases WSC
Adding STR increases fSTR and adds some attack which may increase pdif

fSTR, the result of +4STR (generally), can be approximated as a ~30% WSC.

Therefore on DE, you're looking at 30% STR 30% DEX 40% CHR. Yes, point for point CHR will add more damage on an unstacked DE. However, since STR gives attack and DEX gives accuracy as side benefits, and acc > atk > nothing, DEX > STR > CHR for DE damage, unstacked.

It gets a bit more complex when you stack it, but they are the basics. Now let's look at Steel Cyclone...

50% STR 50% VIT (I think)?

Adding VIT increases WSC
Adding STR increases fSTR and WSC as well as contributing some Attack

Therefore it's more like (50% + 30%) STR vs 50% VIT. They don't add -exactly- like that, but it's a good approximation.

Note on Ranged attacks, STR is closer to a 60%~ approximate mod, which is why it far overpowers AGI even on Slug Shot.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 14:50:25
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Jimmyjazz said:
While on the subject, Frobeus or anyone else who could answer, Warrior's Mufflers vs. Pallas/Alky bracelets; pros and cons?

edit:
Frobeus said:
Dex will increase the first hit of DE if it is a forced Crit by SA. DE itself cannot naturally crit, so increasing dex will not help in this regard. Remember, only WS's that in their description say (TP increases crit rate) can crit on their own without being forced by SA or MS.

Ahh, wasn't sure if Dancing Edge could crit from dex alone, I thought it would as it's multi hit, I'm no thief XD


Alky/Pallas > Warrior's Muffs for SC. A/P > WF for KJ. WF > A/P for RR.

For reasons stated above, your just getting alot more from STR than you will from VIT and att.

RR is a crit based WS so you do not want the -dex from the gigas brac, so WF would be a better choice here. However! Heca is def better than WF for RR.
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By Bahamut.Satanas 2009-06-08 14:54:06
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My question is, how does Martial Bhuj compare to the other Gaxes used for Steel cyclone? to me it looks like it works the same as hagun for sam with WSs being modified by how much tp you have.
 Shiva.Jimmyjazz
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By Shiva.Jimmyjazz 2009-06-08 14:57:17
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Cool, thanks. I had been using pallas' on RR for fear of being quite low on STR and already being very low on DEX. Until I can get my hands on Heca I'll swap to relic hands.
 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-06-08 15:34:28
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Frobeus said:
If your using SC for TA then your doing it wrong.


Possibly I am going to show much lack of knowledge of WAR, but whats wrong closing darkness with TA + Begressor + WC + Steel cyclone @ 300TP to start a fight?
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-06-08 15:41:54
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Argettio said:
Frobeus said:
If your using SC for TA then your doing it wrong.


Possibly I am going to show much lack of knowledge of WAR, but whats wrong closing darkness with TA + Begressor + WC + Steel cyclone @ 300TP to start a fight?


Mostly because your subbing thf in the first place. Subbing thf on war is super oldschool and while that one WS will be pretty your at a severe disadvantage for the rest of w/e it is your doing.

War/thf = only for 2hr'd omgwtf$texasepeen shots.
 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-06-08 15:49:23
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Frobeus said:

Mostly because your subbing thf in the first place. Subbing thf on war is super oldschool and while that one WS will be pretty your at a severe disadvantage for the rest of w/e it is your doing.

War/thf = only for 2hr'd omgwtf$texasepeen shots.


So its the same as SAM/anything that is not WAR is instant fail, rather than SC is a bad WS to use for trick attack?

(inb4 SAM/NIN, SAM/DRG, SAM/THF, SAM/??? has uses...

I know but generally WAR is the 'best' general purpose sub for SAM).
 Bahamut.Satanas
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By Bahamut.Satanas 2009-06-08 15:53:16
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nah uh
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