Mala/Windbuffet Vs Gorget/Belt

So, I'm curious about this. While scrolling through the forums, looking for ways to stay current, I notice that a few WS builds implement Mala and Windbuffet belt over the usual belt/gorget combos. Now, I understand fTP and such, so I understand circumstances where the gorget/belt will deliver minimal results, and other options may be more appropriate, usually stat/attack pieces, but I'm not seeing the draw in these pieces beyond occasional damage spikes. If there's something I'm missing, I'd love to be enlightened.

DRK shouldn't use Mala/Windbuffet on their WSs since they're all single hit or have fTP transfer.

On weaponskills where fTP doesn't transfer to all hits, a multiattack proc is essentially fTP+(number of additional hits). You can extrapolate an average fTP gain by accounting for the chance to proc and interactions with other forms of multiattack (QA>TA>DA). As long as you're talking about a WS with at least two hits, but few enough that overshooting the 8-hit cap isn't a significant issue (hello Shoha/Ukko's), you'll generally see slightly better returns out of those two multiattack pieces.

This is in the DRK subforum though, which basically means we're talking about Resolution, Entropy, Catastrophe, Torcleaver, and Insurgency for the rare Liberator DRKs out there. None of those should be using Windbuffet or Mala; the first two transfer fTP, the third and fourth are single-hit, and Insurgency is 4 hits and should always be backed by mythic AM3.

Thanks for the replies. I thought it seemed very iffy for the WS's in question, and now I know for sure.

So what you guys are saying that Elemental gorgets and belts should be used on a single hit WS?

No, it's relative to total fTP . Reso is basically ~3.6 fTP but because the bonus applies to all hits it's a 0.5 fTP increase per piece. Torcleaver on the other hand is a 4.75 and is only gaining 0.1 per fTP bonus piece, so the increase is paltry. Older non-shared fTP WSes have 1.0 secondaries that Belt and Gorget don't affect, so again it's only a 0.1 increase per piece which can be crappy on an already high fTP WS.

It's not the goddamn number of hits. It's not the goddamn multihit gear. It's whether the fTP carries across all hits and what value that totals up to verus the base fTP of the WS.

I hate doing the math :'(

There's never a simple answer is there?

Depends on the WS really. Using Torcleaver as an example, the fTP is just so high that the bonus from ele gorget/belt would be negligible at best. It's been one of those where you've always been better off stacking attack, and yes, even vit. You could do mala and windbuffet instead, but again, the difference would only manifest in occasional spikes.

It's 4th grade math. Really dude?

I failed math in university 4 times so yeaaaaaaaah...

Just to be clear, because I thought I knew this and I want to be sure, Insurgency doesn't get the fTP bonus on all hits right?

Correct, the fTP transfer thing only applies to some of the merited WSs.

And just for fun. Assuming a 2+ hit WS and no other QA/TA.

Mala	fTP +0.12
Windbuffet	fTP +0.1388
Both	fTP +0.2564

That is to say the average additional hits, given two chances to proc, per hundred weaponskills is 12, 13.88, and 25.64 respectively.

windbuffet is only 0.133 if you account for the 95% hitrate of the extra swings

elemental belt does not need an extra accuracy check to makes its effect

My math in the head(so you can prove me wrong)
windbuffet increaes you base swing rate with 1 extra 7% of the times
two hits WS means you get it 14% of the time an extra swing in average.
each extra swings gives you 1ftp more.
1*14% = 0.14
0.14*095% hit rate = 0.133


i'm probably wrong about the 14% chance of an extra swings due to them interacting in some way.

Can't have more than 8 hits in a WS, but there's something else in play here: People are assuming you can get a DA/TA/QA on secondary hits and as best I know that is wrong. Again to the best of my knowlege DA/TA/QA can occur instead on the offhand hit when Dual Wielding, which we simply do not, and therein the misconception lies.

Whether you can DA/TA/QA on secondaries or not, it's still very insincere to double up the value of the QA "because it can proc twice" when that full benefit only occurs on Shoha.

You can multiattack up to twice on any natural hit of the weaponskill.

Still remaining 60% sure this is a misconception from Dual Wield added-hit mechanics. Citation needed.

I'm not sure why I just went and confirmed something that's considered common knowledge because "you don't think so".

17 hit TP return on expected 15 TP return Resolution with 71% DA.

The value isn't being doubled for the rare occasion multi attack procs twice in one weaponskill. It's being doubled because the chance of any proc is doubled.

Not sure why saying you did something with zero context or details is proof of anything, leave it to others to figure out 'Ragnarok, Abyssea, etc' I guess, but I'll take your word for it. Thanks.

Yeah, figured out where that was coming from and meant to scrub the Shoha bit, but it's still inaccurate. Two chances of 1% is not 2%, no matter how trivial someone will point out the error is.

I just went and did it, it's been documented for years, and yet you're arguing on an "I don't think so". Lol.

Hint: Multi-attacks don't suddenly work differently because you are in Abyssea.

Show me where.

Anywhere.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/56273-DA-in-WS-amp-Gorget-Acc-Tests?p=1958293&viewfull=1#post1958293

But I mean, you may not want to believe him, after all he only went and did it and said it on a forum. If you actually doubt it, go and test it yourself rather than saying baseless *** because you feel that it's false.

Yeah, found the same link on BGWiki but it wasn't put on there until August 2011.

Have fun high-horsing about it despite me citing twice of 'best of my knowledge' and expressing on-the-fence-ness.

It's how misinformation gets spread. It was a baseless statement based on feelings.

Touche.

It was a baseless statement based on playing this damned game for ten years and still not lurking BG enough to see every thread with a concept that takes 3 years to hit the wiki.

Just as well, can you at least see the hook for skepticism there? 'Everyone has known this for years' is what people said about cRatio always capping at 2.0 and you just need enough attack to overcome 0.05 per level difference.

Furthermore, burden of proof in anything mathematical would logically be on the one whose disputing what everybody else "knows", not the other way around. God help me if I actually spent the time to show everybody who contrived some incorrect idea that they were wrong.

07 up in here! Carry on

And while you're there, buy Apple stock.