Atmacites

Which are the best DRK Atmacites for GS or Scythe? Currently using Discipline , Coercion, and thinking to upgrade a 3rd one.

Always
Atmacite of Coercion
Atmacite of the Valiant

with Misers
Atmacite of Discipline

without Misers
Atmacite of Latitude

On latitude is that tp bonus +50 towards weaponskills or store tp? not for sure. also on valiant the status effects +15 refers to str,dex, etc or something totally different?

On valiant bc you get every stat + 15 which regardless of melee job will prob be one of the best.

Also, once at the higher levels it gives you haste +5%, which gives quite a bit of leeway when trying to make a x hit change for vw tp gear.

and it gives some acc to boot ^^

bumping this thread and asking what people use now, and would coercion be better or worse than dark designs

i use valiant, discipline, eminence

Taint's original answer still stands really. Although Latitude might be replaced by Dark Designs, depends on HP needs.

Need about +20-30 STR to beat +50 TP Bonus. We discussed this already, Failaras, when you couldn't figure out why TP Bonus on that OAT guy was beating your Rag base damage for WS damage.

So unless you absolutely need that +10 Accuracy, Coercion loses easily to Dark Designs. +3 Regain should never be a factor on DRK unless you're doing something horribly wrong (no hitbuild, Regain Moonshade and Tactician's Roll, crap like that).

Also, you only have to take Dark Designs to level 10. Dirt cheap.

I never said that weaponskill damage wise any STR atmacite will beat a TP bonus atmacite, and if you remember correctly while he was beating my base damage sometimes I was beating his WS frequency because of things like Coercion.

Edit: Basically with Misers+Disc+Coercion you can garuntee 1 tic of regain and at least a 35 TP return off WS which gives you the ability to use this set: or something similar to 4 hit. I don't think it's really possible, at least not a good idea, to 4 hit not using Coercion since you would basically need to pile on many more slots full of STP gear including ogiers hands.

There is an argument to be made for just saying *** it, stacking DA forgetting STP and 5 hitting though.

OAT context vs Rag context again. A lot of 'ifs' in your post too since your choice of Coercion is as dependent on having Miser's as using Discipline.

Also, Bullwhip on DRK.

Bullwhip was meant to be Windbuffet.

This is all well and good apart from when you are using wings then you have 2 x 50tp bonus slots adding nothing, where as the str is always giving something.

You shouldn't be using Wings in VW except for after the fight ends so you will only really be hitting one 300 TP WS the entire fight.

We are talking no weapon swaps for procs and always maxed out haste right? And also if you are using rag where white damage is pretty huge compared to any other GS or scythe?
OP title says different.

Weapon doesn't matter, wings waste time and cause a swing delay that makes them basically worthless to use unless for some reason every haste buff you can possibly put on yourself is down.

Of course the weapon matters. Basically the delay lost while using a wing has to cover the damage of a 300tp reso. Even at high haste your not getting 300tp in the time it takes to use a wing and ws which you can basically do back to back because your not waiting for the delay to catch up because your using your ws.
So the small tp phase + tp you've lost is beating a 300tp ws is what your suggesting. And with rag that small tp phase is gonna help your argument more than any other weapon.

The problem with that reasoning is that yes Ragnarok makes it even more not worth using Wings, but it's so in favor of not using wings with any weapon already that in actuality weapon doesn't matter. Unless you are lacking some very serious buffs (Like you don't have access to Champions to haste yourself and aren't getting Haste from mages plus your LR is down and no Marches) you shouldn't be using wings outside one after the mob dies to open with a 300 TP WS.

Havnt seen any numbers that suggest the tp phase and tp lost in the small window of using a wing > ws exeeds it by as much as your making out. Or at which haste point breaks even. SE is gonna benifit wings even more.
Also i find myself in plenty of 1 brd, 1 cor vw alli's. Usually brd and cor is split between 2 dd partys. If your with the cor your only gonna be getting whm haste IF you can get that. LR should last the fight depending on how fast procs go. You seem to be gearing to perfect situations that on day to day playing apart from zergs dont happen.
Also in regards to 50tp vs 15 str theres only a 2-2.4% damage differnce on reso but not including what 15 str will do on your tp phase.

A 300 TP Resolution with Bale Earring does about 23% more than your average "100 TP" Resolution (accounting for overflow and Moonshade Earring). If you can get 1/4 the way to a WS within three seconds, you don't even have to consider white damage. OAT does at least that per-round on average as long as you have haste and LR up and should still come out marginally ahead even with LR down once you factor in white damage.

EDIT: This is WITHOUT TP Bonus atmacites. If you're using them, you definitely have no business using wings mid-fight. The difference in WS damage at that point is less than 10%.

Using a wing and WSing seems to take less time than 3 secs. Has med usage been fraps? RR seems to take ages but most seem instant.
At capped haste OAT is at 96 delay? rag is at 86?
With just LR, haste and champions 75% its OAT 120 rag 107/108?
Would be great to see exactlly how much time is lost by wing > ws

Edit: but if your using str atmas it helps using wings as a opposite of what you said.

Incoming wing build Vs non wing build

Perfect situations? First of all you can Haste yourself in VW, so theres no reason to talk about if a Whm will do it for you. Second of all, if you are a good DD and aren't getting Marches, the people you are running with are absolutely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. Even in groups I don't form myself I've hardly ever run in to a situation where I don't have a Brd, and I do almost all pick up groups for VW. Third, you don't need marches to make wings not worth using.

i like this thread lol - so informative for young drks in training with wags 'pats himself on the back' good job for renewing this discussion self

stack mnd on guillotine to increase silence chance to proc.

Carry gear for Infernal Scythe or you are actually playing War spamming Resolution instead of Drk.

Good for you that u never get a VW shout and are not in the brd party.
I'm simply trying to break down the numbers to see at what point in haste is it not worth using wings. Gear and LR and champions will give 65% which takes rags delay down to 152 taking about 2.54 secs to take 1 swing. I cant see champions taking more than 2 secs to use, even though someone said 3 with nothing to back it up. Even so using a wing at this stage costs you 1 swing. And thats having to spam champions that doesnt last very long anyway.

TP wing data

This link says 1 secound activation time which means at this level of haste you wont even get a swing in not including player reaction time.

with haste and 1 march rags delay is 111 1.87 secs for 1 swing
with 2 marches its capped at 86 which is 1.44 secs
Lowest you can get OAT down to is 96 which is 1.60 secs
So If that activation time is true and your fast with your macros your losing even at full haste 1 swing, 2 if your really slow. Plus wings dont have a 95% or below accuracy condition like a normal tp attack.

Of course it'll change depending on the time it takes to wing.
But is 1 swing and the tp from it with 95% or below acc worth more than a 23% boost to a ws?

Quoting Nightfyre here just to remind you of this.

So assuming wings are a 2 second activation time instead of 3, you are still going to get 1 whole swing in easily. You know what's cool? One swing is 1/4 the way to a WS in voidwatch. Not to mention the 28% DA, 5% TA, and 3% QA that most VW builds have. So even if you only lose 1 swing, you are STILL better off not using a wing and that isn't even including white damage. Throw in white damage, fighters roll doubling your DA, and many other things favoring not using a wing, and there really is no argument.

When we talk about VW, we talking about in general or Provenance Watcher? I generally have to hold damage on regular VW for procs and for Provenance Watcher it's big huge buffest zerg.

Pretty sure there is no standard, some people will be talking about Prov Watcher, others Qilin, others Ig-Alima. Leads to a lot of miscommunication on this forum also. I can tell you just from posting here for a bit that if I'm posting something it's usually about capped Accuracy/Attack VWNMs like Qilin or anything below T6 really, but if someone like Taint is posting it will probably be about Prov Watcher.

So your 5 hitting on /war with a rag with valiant and 2 x tp bonus atmas?

I said eyeballing no more than 2 link says 1
Lowest delay with rag is 1.44 secs. so yeah if you have some sort of spellcast item >ws setup you can ws before 1.44 even comes around.

I already said I don't use 2 TP bonus atmacites, although it is funny that both using 2 TP bonus atmacites AND using a discipline misers build both hurt wings in the long run.