Entropy

You just contradicted yourself in the same post. If ODD comes out ahead, then you keep it up and spam Entropy with AM3 up. If Redemption isn't worth using, you should make Ragnarok or OAT gsword and never touch scythe again.

At least that's what I'm getting.

You said earlier that lvl 99 redemption would be 3rd place. Doesn't it make it worth?

I actually mishandled the 'vs Self-Darkness' case, because I didn't consider you were still getting Tier 1 Aftermath, so it's actually more than that 72% lost because you still get a fair portion of ODD. A 300tp ODD may indeed not outweigh the Self-Darkness after all, so I'll include this factor while looking at 90 Redemption now:

90 Redemption: 136 base, 159 after fSTR

Quietus WSC factor: 1.566
Entropy WSC factor: 1.774

Quietus WS weight: 4.698
Entropy WS weight: 6.741, 7.406, 8.072 (100tp, 200tp, 300tp)

Losses: 2.043, 2.708, 3.374

100tp: 2.043 / 2.19 cycles * 1.2 per cycle = 77.7% loss of ODD gains.

300tp opener instead of Sekka Quietus -> Entropy and 100tp AF: (3.374 WS loss + 7.406 Darkness) / (6.57 cycles * 2.0 per - 2.19 cycles * 1.2 per) = 102.55%, meaning the self-SC and 100tp aftermath outweighs the 300tp aftermath by 2.55% and we've shown that 100tp refreshes are still valuable.

So the best method, when capable with 90 Red, is indeed to sekka Quietus -> Entropy and screw 300tp aftermath, because even the two subsequent 100tp aftermath refreshes are still more valuable.

Naturally this falls flat if you can't cleanly self-SC, but then 300tp AF isn't so far behind, but 90 Redemption is still only gaining a pathetic 2.68% total damage from ODD on 100tp refreshes!

99 Redemption recalculation:
300tp opener instead of Sekka Quietus -> Entropy and 100tp AF: (2.465 WS loss + 6.893 Darkness) / (6.57 cycles * 2.0 per - 2.19 cycles * 1.2 per) = 89% loss, so 99 Redemption brings 300tp opening Quietus back to beneficial.

It mostly changes the weighting of Redemption vs WoE Scythe as well as all other Scythes, as the latter retains the self-SC capability, TPs in marginally better gear, and is staggeringly easier to get to level 99.

Edit: And no, this modeling is carefully crafted to only consider the ODD activating WS, meaning you're still spamming Entropy in between refreshes, so this is actually still the best case and method for ODD application.

This whole discussion was based on being allergic to Resolution to begin with, but if you need a backup weapon or want the infinite MP...

3rd place amongst Scythes, and only Scythes. There's a fair half dozen weapons better than even 99 Redemption, and the analysis I've put forth here, cutting down the ODD advantage, is a very good basis to rate it just equal-or-trading with 99 WoE if you consider difficulty of obtainment as well.

To say: You could spend 20mil and have 99.9% of Redemption without the headache of managing ODD.

Not when the second best scythe requires less effort to obtain, no.

I'm curious though, Liberator 99 vs Ragna 99 both in vw and other unbuffed events (unable to trigger am3 by using a wing)

What is the second best scythe? Apoc or Liberator?

Apoc

I'm actually sorta glad I didn't reach the conclusion that ODD was less valuable than just spamming Entropy, because that would have been just heartbreaking...

But damn does it cut it close.

I should probably mirror the analysis for Torcleaver, but I can say to start that Torc's scaling fTP and non-chaining with Resolution does make 300tp opening Torcs the only way to go for Caladbolg.

Also, you guys realize that Misers/Discipline actually hurts your ODD output in the context of total damage, right? The greater your WS portion of damage, the less ODD is doing for you. I've been beating this into people for years, but nowhere is it more true than VoidWatch... So with Misers/Discipline for 3/4-hit build, ODD may actually fall into that 'less valuable than just spamming Entropy' after all, but the factors leading to that are too many to count.


Liberator was the one I was forgetting, thanks. I misplaced OAT scythe, it should be below WoE/Empy. Liberator wasn't in my other analysis I was referencing because... seriously? Who has Liberator?

Ragnarok's aftermath is 5% crit rate at all tiers and weapon levels. Screw Scourge!

Liberator should be spamming Insurgency because it gets the same 40% bonus that Apoc gets on Catastrope, making it actually a 4.9-5.6 fTP but with crappy crappy crappy mods. 100tp AM won't overwrite 300tp AM for that matter, so spam away!

Same stats as before, practically the same set, 99 Liberator, +60 STR +60 INT, 51 WSC for Insurgency, 123 for Entropy, 162 base, 188 after fSTR

100tp
Insurgency: 2634
Entropy: 2659

300tp
Insurgency: 3011
Entropy: 3183

Quite interesting how closely they scale.

Liberator is 30%

RE: 600dmg critical comment

Right, and the ODD would be 1200dmg, so if you crit 2x, you just made up the entire damage loss of 1xEntropy. Congratulations, you've now boosted your damage.

If your choice is random greatsword vs using Redemption, then you had better damn well be activating AM3, otherwise go back to the random greatsword.

Kirschy!

Scary thread....don't even know where to start with all this bad info.

This I know, I just always forget the weapon even exists XD.

Yeah, so read the rest of it and the conclusion then: ODD is still increasing your total damage, just by a paltry amount by having to make up for using Quietus.

ODD is ODD. It's just as likely to land on a crit as a non-crit, so such is irrelevant. If you have 25% crit rate and 25% ODD rate:

Three hits for 100 damge, one crit for 133 damage: 433 damage
Three hits, one crit, ODD on Crit 25% of the time: 566 damage
Three hits, one crit, ODD on non-Crit 75% of the time: 533 damage

( 533 * .75 + 566 * .25 ) / 433 = 1.25, exactly the 25% damage increase from 25% ODD rate!

ODD is ODD is fecking ODD. E-peen crits don't matter, it's just a multiplier to your total TP phase damage. It's just as likely to not proc at all for a whole cycle and make up none of the lost WS damage as it is to proc twice and make up all of it or more.

Mythics are only 30% WS damage bonus though? Interesting. Does cut it down a smidge against Entropy, especially if you start looking at Mekira head and such.

Hardly, just saying imo you are wrong. Simple as that. You dont utilise the tools available, 50% ODD meh who needs that.

I don't think that initialism quite works in this case. I can't be wrong based on your opinion. You're allowed to have some high-horse opinion that my stance may be biased, but to say I'm wrong based on such is quite a stretch.

You know... especially after you could go read the math and conclusion. Rearden doesn't need you White Knighting and me-too'ing for him. He has raised some good points on his own. Your contribution has been paltry, petty, and wasteful of bandwidth.

Exploring whether DRK's Empy ODD is massively flawed on a functional level by superior Merit WS outweighing it completely or even just partially has been a nice exercise. I'm sorry you can't appreciate it.

I bet on the 99 relic if probably does ATM with my 95 entropy wins by a bit a few times. Once I complete my 99 will do further testing. Or taint can pop in here and shine some light on the situation I know he has the 99 apoc

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Who hasn't really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Fact in that so had been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like, more that look even like more do, really even.

Reading that just made my headache go from bad to worse

I dont even.... just what the ... well maybe he..oh good god i cant even try
*head explodes*

YOU AND ME BOTH, TACO

What if RNG shoot?

No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?

Edit: woah, i'm way off

/delete thread

I've been using Entropy for some time now and looking into making some other sets for it. Any suggestions on for uncapped acc and capped attack situations?

I've yet to get my hands on any decent Diamond Rings and Gaunab refuses to give me any legs. I've probably supplied all of Shiva with Ogier's Breeches by now....

jet seraweels for legs until ogiers. Otherwise looks solid

Empys ws neeeds a biff?