Evisceration And Exenterator Gearing

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Evisceration and Exenterator Gearing
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By Shaidalyn 2012-01-02 22:52:51
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So I searched here, I searched Zam, I posted on Zam but Zam is about as lively as the US Economy right now. I'm really trying to build solid sets for Evisceration and Exenterator but every single post contradicts the last, and some contradict themselves in the same post!

For example: What is the obsession with Justiciar's Torque? It looks absolutely terrible for either WS yet I see it in so many builds. STR + ATK vs actual mods for the WS? I know the whole "STR ups weapon DMG" but with this theory you should wear ALL STR which... makes no sense? Another one is Anguinus Belt which I can't even begin to fathom using, ever.
15 acc, okay, but I'm well capped. 15 atk, really? When does atk beat base stats? I rarely see people using +ATK over things with solid stat bases... and +1% DA? On a multihit? Not sure how this pans over stats or Elemental.

Anyhow, my questions are the same in a lot of aspects for both sets.

Evisceration:

My thoughts are down to:
Attack + DA on Atheling vs 5DEX on Nifty?
Elem Belt vs Warwolf? Cuch is rarely on AH and for 300k it'd have to be a substantial difference. Don't have Anguinus.
Earrings? Saying the Dex earring beats Brutal contradicts EVERYTHING that says Anguinas/Atheling are good unless the stat options are ATK > DA > DEX which doesn't fit a "crit" based WS, you'd think more DEX = good thing?
Body: Does the increased crit DMG beat out Raider's+2 10DEX and 5 Dagger skill?
Rings are staying. Not looking to kill myself over 2 DEX for 500k+ each.

Exenterator:

Same issues come up:
Attack vs Agi? Blithe at least gives +DA and the +AGI mod.
I've heard EVERYWHERE agreeing on Elem Belt for this but checking again, and Gorget I heard too? I need to farm it but I don't mind.
Ears I am at a total loss for. No way am I getting the AGI ears, no Aesir access, and in process of dropping Bushi then HOPING I can get people for DM...(for Suppa obviously)
Rings, no clue. AGI rings are 1.1m each on my server, way out of my range for rings and the +5AGI rings are never on AH.
Proud of finding the legs, seems legit but advice welcome.


Biggest issues, I know:
Kila is AGI. No, I don't intend to make a STR one. I understand for DD it's better but I spend 99% of my time tanking and I don't even have enough Geodes/Ifritites for my BLU let alone THF/DNC right now :p
No Loki's. Not gonna happen. Too many friends need and I don't do the whole AbyLS thing.
No Love Torque. Unless I can 2box it no thanks. I hate Sea "endgame" I did that stuff years ago, was pretty awful if memory serves.
No Suppa/Aesir... working on it :/
No Anguinus Belt(though I don't know why people use it, then turn and stack other stats in different slots with the same stats available).

Sorry for the long post, especially when asking for help, but I am -so- confused and rather than say "GEAR ME" I really want to understand WHY the gear is better (teach a man to fish, etc).

Replies are greatly appreciated if they offer any insight on my situation. I have Dnc as well and am just as stuck on gearing it for WS's...

I guess it comes down to:
Multihit WS... do I stack Atk, Mod Stat, or DA/TA? I was always taught atk > stats on multihit due to bad mods, and DA/TA was better for single hit WS's but that was back in 2005-2006... things change?
I understand "get this done, farm that" but I do leave in a month for Kuwait. I'd like to enjoy the game before I leave lol.
Again, thanks~
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 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2012-01-02 23:39:39
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please excuse wall of text

The reason you hear people saying Att in some slots while mods in others is because of the relative values. It's not dex > str > attk > acc or whatever, it's <some amount> dex = <some different amount> attk and so on. If you can only get a couple points of dex in a slot, but 15-20 points of attk, the attk might be better. It's also worth mentioning that all of these stats have diminishing returns to percentage of overall damage increase, so stacking all of one thing is not always the best idea. Ideally you want to cap cRatio (cap attack vs. target's defense), cap accuracy (not hard to do), cap fStr (based on weapon rank. Not hard to do with a dagger. Dependent on target VIT though) and stack mods/crit/DA/TA. As for DA/TA, they are just as effective on multi-hit as they are on single hit (they add extra 1.0 FTP hits if they proc). You just need to remember that 8 is the max hits per WS, so anything over that is wasted.

I'm pretty sure Loki's is very easy to get in a duo or shout group, and probably one of the biggest upgrades, unless you go for that new body which is essentially loki's +1. Lithe boots would be a cheap upgrade for +1 dex on the feet (I think there was a cheap +10 option with the last update too).
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By Foldypaws 2012-01-02 23:56:43
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Denali is substantially better than Loki's in the body for Ext.

Might take you a while to get, but you can definitely 3 man the 80 nyzul floors if you have access.
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 Asura.Alkimi
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By Asura.Alkimi 2012-01-03 00:01:37
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You do seem to have placed a lot of artificial limits on what gear you can/can't get.

Loki's Kaftan is really easy to get, it's barely camped anymore and all you need is a MNK and a WHM/THF for 20 mins and go kill it during blunt time. Stuff like AGI+7 rings may seem expensive but you could make enough to buy two of them in a day or so very easily with a combination of some farming and a solo dynamis run on THF.
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By Jamesy 2012-01-03 00:20:49
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i noticed quite the difference with anwig salade with the weapon skill augments
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 Asura.Karbuncle
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By Asura.Karbuncle 2012-01-03 00:37:52
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Kacura Leggins +1 are great for Evisceration
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By Powerslave 2012-01-03 00:51:31
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Scopuli leggings are good for evis as well and are a bit cheaper cross-server than the kacura +1. If not, switch out aurore feet for Lithe Boots at least.

Also, Atheling, Loki's, N legs and a merman's or Jupiter's pearl instead of Kemas.
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 Asura.Karbuncle
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By Asura.Karbuncle 2012-01-03 00:55:41
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Kacura Leggings are really cheap to make, Just need a Good Synergist, and Bonecraft/LeatherCraft person.

I went 1/3 on HQ.

So its an option if you can find the friends.
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By Shaidalyn 2012-01-03 16:49:51
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Thanks for replies! I really appreciate it.
The reason I limit myself is I am so overwhelmed with things I need to do before I deploy. For all I know it will mean a solid 13 months without FFXI and I'd like to finish what I started which includes:
All Dyna wins on my pocket WHM as well as Rank10 in San d'Oria.
All zone wins+caturae+shinryu on pocket WHM.
Helping friend finish his Kannagi (25 Helms 50 Skins to go...)
And +2 all possible gear I have.
I loathe Dynamis. People continue to undercut prices daily so it's losing value. Plus, Thf/Dnc was HORRIBLE for me, I wish I could make it work but Dnc/Nin I get 2x more and it's still only 60/run on a good day.

As for the advice side, thanks. I'll buy the Lithe boots (1inv for 1dex hurts but the +10 boots are like 500k right now, I'll wait. Broke from Ocelomeh and PLD gear).

Still stuck on a few pieces, forgot about my neck. For Exenterator would 6AGI beat out the 8acc/8atk?
For stacking with SA/TA, do the base stats then win out almost exclusively?
For Evisc, does Alcide's beat out 10 DEX from AF3+2?
I miss simple WS's like Tachis... just pour on STR and let the rest come with it D:
 Sylph.Gredival
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By Sylph.Gredival 2012-01-03 23:16:47
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OP, I highly urge the following after reviewing this thread.

1) You have a limited amount of time and seem to have divided your attention rather heavily between multiple jobs without the gil/time to support all of them. In general I think that if you strive for excellence than you should focus on depth over breadth. I say this particularly in regards to the STR Kila. By your own admission, your THF seems to be more a solo/duo/2box job, rather than a project you find worthy of dedicating the effort to bring out its true potential.

2) Do not stress so much about reaching a certain point before you deploy because there is a high likelihood that most of the gear we are splitting hairs over now will become obsolete. Abyssea did away with the tradition of hard to attain items with infinite shelf-life. Instead, gear is now much easier to attain for everyone.

Whether your like that or not, you must realize that the implication is that SE can no longer sit on its laurels while we take years to chase after pieces. People cap out much faster and they need to be given something else to aim for or else they will quit out of boredom. We already see that happening with Voidwatch gear. I anticipate by the time you return from your tour, AF3+2 will be largely obsolete.

Shaidalyn said: »
For Exenterator would 6AGI beat out the 8acc/8atk?

I lean towards the AGI in this situation, but as previously mentioned part of this is looking at your whole WS set and supplementing weaknesses in it while taking account of diminishing returns.

Quote:
For stacking with SA/TA, do the base stats then win out almost exclusively?

Sort of. Attack is still very important for base SA/TA.

But also keep in mind that pieces that are good for stacked WS are not necessarily great for solo SA/TA. In particular, pieces with a lot of haste may be better options that pieces with better stats, or pieces with slow might be inferior to pieces with less stats, because they affect your delay so dramatically and there is typically less to gain from squeezing every good bit of stats out comparative to a WS.

Shamaya had a chart done for 75 gear that had optimal gear by slot for SA vs. TA vs. SAWS vs. TAWS and there were surprising results. However it's sadly out of date.

Quote:
For Evisc, does Alcide's beat out 10 DEX from AF3+2?

I'm tempted to say yes inside Abyssea, but that is a complete hunch.

I have to echo everyone else that has said to work on Loki's. It has too good value for its investment for you to put off.

Quote:
I miss simple WS's like Tachis... just pour on STR and let the rest come with it D:

You should understand that this difficulty is mostly the result of non-STR WS. With STR based WS, you have the liberty to just pile on as much STR as possible they then reap the secondary benefits off STR (even moreso with the additional .25 attack 2H get in their crutch formula).

When dealing with a non-STR WS, you can't really take the same approach of just dump everything into the modifier because STR still determines a lot of the numbers underlying your DMG even if it isn't your WSC.

This is why Mandau and access to Mercy Stroke used to be such a dramatic break in standard Thief play because it allowed Thief to convert SA/DEX into something purely additive instead of compensatory.
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By AkiKrylon 2012-01-04 13:15:07
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No reason (other than not having 200k cruor...come on now ;) ) why you can't solo a Loki's...

Go to the zone during piercing, pull him down, if hes weak to anything other than dagger, die, RR, unweaken, and try again. If he is weak to dagger, pop a brew and proc him. Got my Loki's that way.

Yea you might have to wait until piercing comes around again if you get unlucky and he constantly is weak to Archery or Polearm (happened to me the first time I tried), but big deal. Better than trying to rely on a long list of friends that want to lot it too.
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