SATA Question

Hi everyone,

There's something that has been on my mind for a while now. When i sata, i usually switch to dex gear for SA then AGI gear for TA and finally my WS set for the WS i use. I have always assumed that with each "charge" as it were as it appears in your status bar up top, they remained at their max strength. Am i recieving benefits from both the gear swaps or is that pointless?

Might sound silly question but its something that i would like clarification on if someone is kind enough to explain or point in the right direction.

Thanks
Chaos

You have to have the gear equipped when you hit the monster to get the bonus for each respective ability.

I had a feeling that would be the case. So with taht being the case and the way TA was changed, imma give a good guess using bith at the same time is kinda pointless now unless your going for epeen numbers. Am i on the right track here?

Thanks for the response

Well Sneak attack and Trick attack get a bonus even without the gear equiped. (THF gets a mod bonus whereas other jobs do not as you problby know). The extra mods per attack help raise your damage to nice heights. So regardless if you want uber scooby doo damage then you will want to stack sneak, trick, ws (mostly focusing on DEX WS which will help your SA damage mods also). But that would be only if you wanted high spike damage. (Most people do not just want to do high spike damage once a min)

Sneak, Trick and I think WS have a chance now of giving you a Treasure Hunter proc so it really would be best to split them where possible - this also has the benefits of spreading your damage and getting bigger benifits from your SA,TA,WS's since you can gear up accordingly to max your damage output.

Least that's how I understand it.

Yeah that makes perfect sense. Thanks so much :)

I think it's mostly inefficient to stack your WS if it's not named Rudra's Storm or Mercy Stroke.

Oh my God, I love you Chaos. I wish more people would just ask if they weren't sure of something, instead of blindly doing whatever they thought was right.

^^

^ This.

My thoughts exactly Ashman :)

Everything has pretty much been said. Full stacking everything makes for sexy screenshots. Separating makes for greater total damage. The difference widens as you improve each set of gear more (dex for SA, Agi for TA, WS tweaks for whatever WS).

IE if you have +0 agi and +0 dex, there will be virtually no difference between stacking and not stacking because your dex/agi arent taking a hit to gear the other (though technically you force crit your weapon damage twice instead of 1crit+1 normal, but thats really minor).

As you get more mutually exclusive dex/agi gear, it becomes better to separate them. Rings are a good example. SA in 2x7 dex rings for +14 dex, and same for +14 agi on TA. If you stack you have to choose one or the other. Split you can get +14 to both. Apply this to your whole set and it becomes less and less efficient to use both at once when you give up one stat or the other accross the board.

Another great example is the Sneak attack gloves and trick attack gloves since they can give really nice bonuses as long as you have gearsets for either SA or TA.

Rouge's Armlets +1:



Raider's Armlets +2:


(click the picture to go to the pages)

There was a post about this some time ago. By soloing SAorTA(not stacking it with WS)- slow, dual wield, haste are effecting the following attack round. Its a long post..

EDIT. TY Anye :)

2011 the new ideal SA and TA sets

Weird, broken link. o_o


Fixing :o

i thought i fixed the link errrr. one last try lol

"2011 the new ideal SA and TA sets"
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=245&mid=129528275044458171&h=50

The link is still broken (I think). We're in a thread trying to help someone become a better player, but the link leads to allakhazam.

fumes.. ok. its working on my pc here.... i dunno whats up. its actually a post from ffxiah earlier this year gimme a sec while i look for it...

EDIT: ok if this linkHow to Maximize Sa/Ta Damage doesnt work i give up.

Ha....ha...

That thread is also from back in january, so the exact gear stuff is still pretty outdated and would need to be looked at more thoroughly to reccommend current gear.

Theres basically 2 ways to build for SA/TA sets.

*Max damage: pretty straightforward. Dex/Agi out the wazoo with str/atk where possible. Period. The end.

*Hybrid Speed/power: Much more complex and takes into consideration the 'slowing down' effect of removing haste/DW and adding slow gear. This considers the lost potential damage by slowing down this ONE attack round. This assumes full time meleeing on a single mob. (ie: ideal. This is not always the case)

IE: you put on full heca gear for SA, now you have a buncha slow on so you land a powerful SA, but you have a rather huge delay before your next atk round. This means you loose melee damage (+slow) and you loose TP (again because your slowing down). To accurately measure this, you need to consider your total haste/DW (buffs/gear etc) so you can measure your loss in TP. You also have to consider your WS gear/mob so you can measure the damage that TP 'would' give you towards a WS. Also, your melee TP set and monster target to see how much damage your melee swings would do so you can see how much damage you loose from melee damage.

Toss all that together and you can see (for one specific mob, and making a lot of assumptions like constant melee, no kill shots etc) the total damage gain of the SA/TA gear and the losses of the slow down effect. Combine them and you can figure out what set will net the most total damage.

It is worth considering, but so long as you take it with a grain of salt that the numbers are idealized with continuous melee and the TP 'saved' from speeding up is only saved if you are WS near 100% TP. This wont always happen, so remember that before you go balls to the wall haste for SA. The value of haste in a SA/TA build also depends heavily on how much outside haste you have. Raw damage sets still have a place, as do these hybrid ones. Need to know when to use what.

Situational ***is situational.

Yah the gear is way out of date. But his/her points on the slow/dw/haste in ur SA and TA sets is what i was trying to get across. Also i think the guy address continuous swings vs stop pull another mob in the beginning of his page.

Thanks for all the contributions everyone.

As mentioned in one of the earlier posts, as a Career THF now (use to be SAM main) im trying to improve myself in anyway shape possible. This had been bugging me for ages so after getting "no idea" responses from many Thiefs on Bismark, i decided to come here. Seems i did good in doing so ^^

Yeah i SA in AF3+2, and am working on AF1+1. Them chests really need to give me them mats like for real now :/

@Cuelebra Yeah i was having a good read on that site after posting here. Went looking to do more research. The back piece gets me though, I would have thought that the Nifty Mantle would have edged further ahead than the Atheling Mantle. Seems i was wrong.

Something that was of interest tho was the loss of a swing during SA and TA. I understand the logic behind haste speeding this delay, but what if the DEX or AGI you stack on SA/TA makes up for that swing you lose, would it then not be the case that losing the haste during SA/TA be justified?

Ill post my sets i use in a few minutes (need to make them).

But in general my initial question was answered. So thanks ^^

Here is my SA



Here is my TA



Comments regarding TA set
I plan on changing the hands to AF+1 when i get them. Rings i dont have any AGI rings yet but will change Heed for a AGI ring when i get one. The Spry Tights i have a Aug of AGI+6 on them. In place of Atheling mantle, would Assassin's Cape be better?

@joshiakf Yeah i know Aby is overpowering in many departments but im also doing loads more outside aby these days hence why the curiosity.

Another Note AF3+2 Legs vs Tumbler Trunks in and out of abyssea, would the Crit 4% outweigh the atk from the trunks? In aby i am going to guess yes, but outside?

The crit on Raid legs is crit RATE. So it actually does not enhance the 100% crit damage of SA at all. It would only be a (minor) boost to the offhand hit or additional DA/TA hits beyond the 1st main hit.

I generally reccomend just working out a simpler damage build to most people. To account for the 'slow down' requires so many factors, its very time consuming to measure and requires a full understanding and application of the damage formulas. Because you are weighing Both TP(and by extention WS) and Melee damage vs SA/TA bonuses, it essentially requires you to look at your entire Thf damage from every aspect including mob, outside buffs, TP gear, WS gear, WS frequency and all that to compare the the tiny gains/losses with a single attack round and changes as your mob/buffs change.

If you dont quite know how to essentially calculate the entire Thf DD machine accurately, you wont get the true values of slowing down/speeding up quite right and build your hybrid SA/TA sets a little incorrectly.

This is why i generally wont reccomend the hybrid sets. You cant really mess up raw power sets. You can mess up the hybrid designs rather easily. The hybrids are technically the superior sets, but require so much effort to figure out (correctly) and it changes based on mob/haste values that its just more trouble than its worth unless you are really into min maxing. (i dont even go that far and ask anyone, im extremely anal about min-maxing xD)

For the Neck slot i really didnt have much' I just assumed more crit the better why i put that there. Ill change that to Agasaya's Collar then? Only other item i currently have on me.

My Evis WS uses the Rancor yes but i guess, on a SA alone it really does add nothing. So Tumbler Trunks would be the better choice out of the 2?


@Aanalaty Yeah i see where your coming from. The delay between SA and hitting is there and present but i dont think ill be tweaking it to the enxtent your saying. Plus despite wanting to learn the maths behind everything i dont even know where to start lol xD

ok changes made to above sets, Thanks ^^

heca+1 > heca> tumbler/matre > af3+2 > af3+1
i think tumbler vs matre would depend on mobs def no?

neck. love torque looses to justiciar's torque now, i believe..i may be wrong. good for multi-hit ws on other jobs too.