Whitemage Support Job

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2010-09-08
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Whitemage Support job
 Siren.Mcclane
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By Siren.Mcclane 2011-08-31 14:55:59
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The last thread that I can find that discusses subjob for whm is from February, so I don't want to necrobump. If I missed a thread discussing this already, please forgive me :x

But anyways, I've been thinking about what subjob I should be using on my whm. As of right now, I'm almost always /rdm. Just right now, I'm debating if I should switch to /sch or stay with /rdm. Here's what I see are the pros/cons of each subjob:

RDM:
Pro - 15% FC, Convert, Warlock's Mantle (I don't have Veela cape, leave me alone <.<), Dispel
Cons - only -7.5% Recast time, no drain/aspir/stun

SCH:
Pro - Sublimation > Refresh imo, Light Arts/Dark Arts, -10% recast time, Drain/Aspir, Stratagems, Conserve MP
Cons - Only 10% FC in correct arts, no convert, fight where spamming dispel is needed isn't ideal

BLM
Pro - STUN, Conserve MP, More MP, Drain/Aspir, Warp I/II
Cons - No FC, no -recast, no way to gradually recover mp, no dispel




I'm sure I missed a lot of Pros/Cons, I just was curious to what all you WHMs think the best subjob is.



Edit: Adjusting Pros/Cons as people point out my stupidity/forgetfulness :p
 Leviathan.Bladefury
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By Leviathan.Bladefury 2011-08-31 15:02:43
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1 quick item to your pro's - WHM gets Clear Mind V natively @ 80, so that really isn't any pro to any subjob.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2011-08-31 15:03:34
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Clear mind itself is given to whm main up to V which is the max, so that shouldn't be in your argument. Veela Cape and Warlock Mantle.. Would you really use them for cures? I think the recast time on -na spells are so short that 1% or w/e isn't even gonna do anything, so you can main Orison Cape for the mp and cure pot and the -4 enmity.

I would say personally, to go with /sch IF dispel isn't needed to really be spammed. /Sch gives sublimation which is nice, and mp-50% stratagems should the need arise.

If we're talking inside aby though, /rdm for dispel as sublimation won't benefit you as much because mp isn't a major issue.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-08-31 15:06:52
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/SCH gets Dispel during Dark Arts Addendum. It's a pain but if you need the proc, you've got it.

/SCH is the best SJ hands down imo. AoE Stoneskin/Blink/Aquaveil are just icing on the cake.
 Siren.Kunimatsu
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By Siren.Kunimatsu 2011-08-31 15:07:22
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/sch gets conserve MP too.
 Siren.Mcclane
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By Siren.Mcclane 2011-08-31 15:10:07
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
/SCH gets Dispel during Dark Arts Addendum. It's a pain but if you need the proc, you've got it.

/SCH is the best SJ hands down imo. AoE Stoneskin/Blink/Aquaveil are just icing on the cake.

Low manning a fight where you need dispel multiple times is why I brought up the dispel thing between RDM and SCH
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-08-31 15:13:36
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If you macro it, it'd be easy, I just haven't found it imperative. It'd still be limited if you had to change between arts multiple times, however.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-31 15:15:59
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I, as well as everyone I know in the game uses /sch. Even situationally, I've never had anyone I know sub anything else recently for anything serious.
 Siren.Mcclane
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By Siren.Mcclane 2011-08-31 15:16:34
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
If you macro it, it'd be easy, I just haven't found it imperative. It'd still be limited if you had to change between arts multiple times, however.

That's the point I'm trying to get across
 Bahamut.Dannyl
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By Bahamut.Dannyl 2011-08-31 15:17:47
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you forgot to add Warp and Warp II for /BLM Pro. :D
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2011-08-31 15:17:49
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
If you macro it, it'd be easy, I just haven't found it imperative. It'd still be limited if you had to change between arts multiple times, however.
Not only would you have to change arts, but you would also have to addendum black, so you would need to have a stratagem. With a recast of 2 minutes on stratagems for subjob SCH, you could only feasibly dispel once every 2 minutes as the fight progresses.
 Ragnarok.Ghishlain
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By Ragnarok.Ghishlain 2011-08-31 15:19:57
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All the subjobs listed have clear uses. As what many people have coined before, "Shits situational"

I personally enjoy using /BLM a lot in Abyssea because MP is usually not an issues and Stun is just that useful to have against certain NMs. Sleepga is good too, especially since you don't need to spend two strategems just to do an equivalent for /SCH.

/SCH is useful for stuff outside of Abyssea where it helps affect WHM MP conservation and the Stratgems, when combined with high MP cost Cures can make a few free cures here or there.

I use /RDM during Salvage's AR. Dispel and Refersh on AR are a life saver as WHM/RDM. And you need less cells to become efficient within Salvage in that regard. In general, if a mob requires back to back Dispels in any situation, /RDM may benefit more then /SCH (mainly because if you go to Dark Arts, Addenedum, then go back to Light Arts afterwards, you're locked outta Dispel due to Arts recast for about 30 seconds, even more if you have to wait for another strat charge)

In turn, it just takes practice and experience. Play with all the sub jobs, have them all leveled, and pick the right one that you feel will benefit the most for the upcoming fight/event.
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-08-31 15:20:12
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Siren.Thoraeon said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
If you macro it, it'd be easy, I just haven't found it imperative. It'd still be limited if you had to change between arts multiple times, however.
Not only would you have to change arts, but you would also have to addendum black, so you would need to have a stratagem. With a recast of 2 minutes on stratagems for subjob SCH, you could only feasibly dispel once every 2 minutes as the fight progresses.
Or stay in dark arts and suck it up...
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2011-08-31 15:21:08
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Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
Siren.Thoraeon said: »
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
If you macro it, it'd be easy, I just haven't found it imperative. It'd still be limited if you had to change between arts multiple times, however.
Not only would you have to change arts, but you would also have to addendum black, so you would need to have a stratagem. With a recast of 2 minutes on stratagems for subjob SCH, you could only feasibly dispel once every 2 minutes as the fight progresses.
Or stay in dark arts and suck it up...
xD yes!
 Ragnarok.Judaine
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By Ragnarok.Judaine 2011-08-31 15:40:03
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Honestly, RDM or SCH works pretty well.

I just prefer /SCH because that's how I'm used to playing WHM. Before Abyssea I always subbed SCH just because it was awesome to have Stoneskin-ga, Blink-ga, and AoE -na spells, and it still is!
But the main reason why I subbed SCH was because of sublimation (derrr). And now that you can sub RDM and get Refresh as well as other various spells, the only spell that comes to mind that you can cast on /RDM that you can't on /SCH is Phalanx, En-spells, and Bio spells(I think?).
Not to mention that /SCH also takes off 10% MP and casting time from all of your spells (depending on what arts you have up).

Idk, to me /SCH is just better for time and MP management and can save people's lives sometimes. RDM may get convert, but that can put you in a sticky situation if you don't do it at a good time.
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By xenomasterkenshin 2011-08-31 15:45:23
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I like /blm for my mule for extra stun (not needed for the most part but nice to have) but when im whm on my main, i just go whm/sch, the benefits are really good imo.

/rdm is great as well but those penury cure6s that cost nothing, are priceless (and mp savers!).

Just a matter of the player i guess, convert inside abyssea for me is getting 2k MP back lol, which is something to keep in mind as well, but overall i love /sch (got addicted to it back in the old namis, dark arts + aspir was a life saver keepign mp up).

cheers!
 Lakshmi.Rearden
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By Lakshmi.Rearden 2011-08-31 15:46:29
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It comes down to two things (not really considering Abyssea in this post)

Do you need a stun: BLM

If not: SCH

RDM is a terrible sub for new content. Convert isn't necessary with the potential to get 15mp/tic from RDM+BRD with gimp gear on all 3 mages, not counting sublimation. That number easily goes over 20, even 25.
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 Leviathan.Yogurt
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By Leviathan.Yogurt 2011-08-31 15:51:25
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I prefer /blm in abyssea for most normal situations, I like having stun and warps, and sleepga has also been used fairly often. Only have seen a few mobs resist my stuns mostly in the newer zones. I only /rdm or /sch if its near darksday for seal farming. I will also /sch in abyssea for accession *na or ss, or if i know we are gonna fight something that will require me to spam cure V and IV for the reduced mp cost. Outside abyssea I prefer /sch or /rdm, I will /rdm if there are other mages in the party that need more refresh.
 Carbuncle.Nezea
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By Carbuncle.Nezea 2011-08-31 15:58:40
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Ragnarok.Judaine said: »
Before Abyssea I always subbed SCH just because it was awesome to have Stoneskin-ga, Blink-ga, and AoE -na spells

wat
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 Ragnarok.Judaine
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By Ragnarok.Judaine 2011-08-31 16:04:10
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Carbuncle.Nezea said: »
Ragnarok.Judaine said: »
Before Abyssea I always subbed SCH just because it was awesome to have Stoneskin-ga, Blink-ga, and AoE -na spells

wat

I was just saying that it's how I've always played (except pre-SCH when /SMN was amazing).
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-08-31 16:05:19
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Ragnarok.Judaine said: »
Carbuncle.Nezea said: »
Ragnarok.Judaine said: »
Before Abyssea I always subbed SCH just because it was awesome to have Stoneskin-ga, Blink-ga, and AoE -na spells
wat
I was just saying that it's how I've always played (except pre-SCH when /SMN was amazing).

Silence Beiber!
 Carbuncle.Nezea
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By Carbuncle.Nezea 2011-08-31 16:05:32
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Accession is level 40, so...hax?
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 Asura.Silvaria
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By Asura.Silvaria 2011-08-31 16:13:11
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I'm a fan of /SCH, myself.
 Asura.Werdxi
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By Asura.Werdxi 2011-08-31 16:30:40
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I'm too lazy to read what everybody said so if these were already said then forgive me. But in probly 95% of situations /sch is better hands down. 1st the ups of rdm. theres 2, you get convert, and you get 15% fast cast. ups of sch, greatly outweighs /rdm. sublimation is more reliable and better than refresh. you still get dispel. if you NEED dispel constantly and dont have another person to do it, yah go /rdm. i use to duo Urd with my girlfriend at lv 80 for ToM and i went /rdm simply for dispel. theres no such thing as the END ALL sub. Now yah you get 15% fast cast from rdm vs 10% from sch, but you get better recast timers and you conserve mp on all spells as well. 5% faster cast will not outdo what light arts does. then theres convert. if you're a lazy whm, sure, convert's for you. but if you keep up light arts, use penury on spells that cost 80+ mp, use sublimation and remember you get a +25% chance to conserve mp on all casts as /sch, you'll NEVER go back to relying on convert. also you get resist silence, accession, and a stat boost to your enfeeble and enhancing because of light arts. the answer is clear what is better. again i will push this, there is no 'end all' sub. and for /blm again, for specific situations i do go /blm mainly for stunning the nasty stuff. but generally i always have a blm (who doesnt have one these days). but again depending on what you're fighting the sub may change. the game allows you to change your gear as well as your subjob to see fit to what you're fighting. Now simply not leveling all three cuz you think it doesnt matter is just as dumb as DDs not leveling ninja. suck it up.
 Bahamut.Cuelebra
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By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-08-31 16:31:42
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/sch is nice particular for cure spam since ur geting that reduction to cure spell cost when in proper arts.

Another part not mentioned so far, maybe in another thread, Is while in Light Arts your Enfeebling Magic and Enhancing magic get boosted to B+ ranking.

in abyssea especially ive found i have problems landing debuffs on Isgebind as whm/rdm, but as whm/sch i can land para in full MND gear no prob.

whm @90 gets 315 enhancing. whm/sch @90 gets 341 enhancing w/o merits.
So were talking slightly more potent bar spells and Boost(AGI,VIT etc) spells aswell.
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-08-31 16:48:45
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/sch with light arts for the benefits wins out for me.

And you've also got Stratagems for situations where you need them. /sch gives better crowd control too in terms of getting rid of debuffs.
 Sylph.Siccmade
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By Sylph.Siccmade 2011-08-31 16:50:05
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Like most everything in the game it definitely depends on the situation, as has been said.

Inside Aby, baring a need for Dispel proc, I /BLM for stuns. Between fast cast atmas and huge refresh,
Stun becomes one of my more frequently used spells.

Almost all other times I use /SCH, with all the tricks it packs up its sleeve MP is rarely an issue
and there are tons of benefits.
 Bismarck.Recaldy
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By Bismarck.Recaldy 2011-08-31 17:05:03
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I've always done rdm for the dispel + casting time but sch is better for cheaper buffs and overall variety available outside just curing.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2011-08-31 18:42:38
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You also forgot to list the skill bonuses under the benefits for /SCH (as well as Conserve MP which was already pointed out). The skill bonus to Enfeebling & Enhancing are quite useful, and actually one of the main reasons I continue to /SCH even when MP is not an issue.
 Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-09-06 12:50:51
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/SCH checking in.
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