NM Claim Rights & Atma Of The Apocalypse

We’ve all seen it – some players who aren’t up to scruff trying to take on an NM that is a little too challenging for them. They wipe and you think to yourself: “Nice, possibly 2 free items for my empyrean weapon.” Of course, however, said player has Atma of the Apocalypse on, and plans to zombie the monster down – with multiple deaths/ reraises being involved in this process (Briareus/ Failnagis).

I was just wondering what the AH community thinks about this – is it an acceptable way to kill the NM?

My Linkshell generally does not give much sympathy to someone zombing down their NM, and most of the time we steal it, which generally results in a big Q.Q fest by the zombier claiming that we stole their NM. We operate under the notion of “if the NM is white, it is fair game,” and that it is not stealing if the entire group fighting the NM is dead and the NM is unclaimed.

Of course, this goes for me too – if I am fighting a NM and wipe to it, I have no problem if another group claims it.

Yellow is yellow.

Define it a little more clearly.

In the example the tank dies due to bad connection on an unlucky 2hr from briarius, and the WHM or RDM is still up, but it whites, is that acceptable?

I usually at least wait for everyone to be weak before it tell my guys to claim anything, just because you know, ***does happen.

They are probably thinking this thread has been made 50 times

*** are ***.

There are no mages, just a nin/dnc.

Answer used to be obvious when there was only one pop spot for these monsters. You obviously wouldn't let someone take the time to zombie a monster down. Nowadays, I think it is better off to let other groups do what they want so long as it's not affecting you. Of course if it looks like the monster is going to depop you can claim though.

Quick side story... Most annoying event I can think of is when I had a group doing sobek,nin thf war whm blm or something like that. Both war and thf were disengaged and the nin got deathed at 1%. The mob was unclaimed for maybe 5 seconds and running towards the members that were alive and a nin from another group runs in and WSes it for the kill. He was also very proud of himself, and I was surprsied it flew considering him and like 6 other members of his ls were there and all found it quite funny rather than unfair... So at least there needs to be some restraint on waiting for a full wipe from the group imo and also if mob is less than 5% just let them finish it off.

Also another interesting question, if someone is fluxing a popped nm to change it's weakness proc, is it fair game? Had a Lacovie stolen a couple weeks ago doing this.

Well, since there's now three ??? to pop the monsters, the implications change a little.

Before, you could argue (Very well) that all parties in question win, if the monster gets "Stolen" by a more competent group that kills it in the normal 2 minutes. The people who died stop losing XP and can make another set or two in the time they would have taken just to kill the mob, and the valiant knights who saved the day, get free-ish items.

Now, it's pretty much just stealing. There's no real legitimate reason other than "Hay, I just wanted free itemz yo.", but a group's incompetence is not your responsibility. This is where it dives into a little gray territory for me.

Not Okay: Everybody wipes occasionally. You could be FFXI god, descended from heaven, and you're gonna wipe at least once, if not by any fault of your own, since you can always suffer a catastrophically-timed DC, or a Tyrant Tusk that processes with the "Death Effect", which is especially dangerous as a duo. I know the adrenaline pump you get from the prospect of finishing your Empryean 45minutes early must be overwhelming, but try to give people the benefit of the doubt, because you never know when you'll be caught in that situation, and I'm damn sure willing to bet You'd like the same courtesy.

Okay!: Gross incompetence. If you see an alliance of Pink/teal melee'ing Briareus through a Meikyo Sushi Collossal Spam attack, or a botnet lined up single-file on Sobek, only to suffer the obvious consequences, it's unlikely that these people will ever learn to competently play the game, and it would be a service to the FFXI community to deny them their Empyrean until they learn the fundamental basics of not sucking.


Getting ***taken while trying to flux-change the weakness is just dirty. There was a time when the community strength mattered enough to be able to sanction against such actions (Player warnings, etc) but now any idiot with a bot and 40 extra dollars a month can win the game overnight. [See below]

You best not to wipe, die, or let you NM go unclaimed around me.
I'm Going to snatch it the first second I can, then watch those tears fall dow the side of your face.

Yellow is fair game, don't like it....
There is always the option to uninstall the game.

I personally think it's wrong, but hey, that's just me. I've had NM stolen from me once (the tiger that drops RDM NIN WHM body seals in Uleguerand). We were duoing and wiped @5%. People that were there waiting to pop just claimed and killed. Meaning, we did all the hard work, spent 100k and that happened. I'd rather see it depop then go to those ***, seriously.

On another day we claimed a Rani for a group and hold it while they went to get another brew. Then we wiped and they resumed killing.

I think if you are a NICE person you'll help people out (it's not like its a 24h respawn monster - that case I think it's acceptable). If you're an ***, you'll just take it.

Preach on Brother Zicdeh!

Without a doubt it is fair game to take that mob. If you willingly lose claim in an effort to benefit yourself you would be naive to assume that your NM would not get stolen.

As far as the zombie-ing goes...I will usually let someone wipe twice before I take it. If they go down and are able to regroup and finish it off that is one thing, but if they are 6x weakened and not attempting to unweaken but just zombie it to death then i will take it when i can.

imo (and must be fenrir problem too idk) i play rude as people played rude with me, ive lost glavoid many time, it also made me laugh when i told an LS camping me, yes yes, they was CAMPING ME to see if i wipe, i told them to GTFO there 2 more ??? and there no point camping other ppl to get a free kill, you know they answer? "No worry we wont steal, we just going to take if you wipe"... ahahaha funny..

My answer now is simple as heck, your NM go yellow i will provoke, stun, 2h on it or anything to get the claim in your face, and you can thanks all the as$ h0le on fenrir that stoled me NM for "FUN", i am also proud to said how i stoled 5 hedjedjet and 7 orthrus, payback... and please don't play the card "Not everyone would steal NM", also don't play the card: I didn't steal it, my LS leader forced us to do it..

Q.Q is no longer my way, i loose again NM, tuff luck i tell myself "stop sucking and move on", in revenge if i see NM unclaim, then guyz, stop sucking and i claim.

Imo is still wrong to steal NM, but most of everyone built an good reason to justify they steal, so my reason is because SKY is blue and i can take it, valid as: "We only going to take if you wipe" when i trio box...

You know you make a good point there. A fair percentage of people who used to whine, and cry about how HNM was so unfair because only a small amount of the population controlled it also seem to be the ones who always advocate taking NM's in abyssea if the thing goes white. Period, and with no grey area. Seems like ***rolls downhill eh?

You let a nm roam free/waiting on flux to be claimed while you flux.. because the lack of procs,
would be smart by bringing/skilling all the right procs on blunt window before poping.

Honestly whether I took an NM or not would depend on whether or not they can recover, if it's at 5% and they wipe but can get up and start beating on it I'll leave them be.

If however, it's at 60% and they're just getting up, hitting it, dying, repeat, I'm taking that ***.

All multiple ???'s mean to me is that if a group wipes, I can fill my pool with items quicker. If it goes yellow, you screwed up. It's hilarious to be doing carabosse, and only 40 of the gems we got we actually popped. We always joked that you could make a masa or lolnagi just waiting and catching people who wiped.

Wrong.


There are many reasons an NM goes yellow, not all of which are an intentional ***. As a beastmaster, it happens a lot with literally 0 control over it. Are they to be held responsible because SE didn't program the game right?

Sorry let me just pull a mnk out of my *** :) Duo on thf/mnk whm because blue proc isn't enough a lot of the time. Only 3 WS we don't have between us, so we chances are we usually can cover. When we can't we flux it, only had a mob stolen once doing this because we only do it when others arn't around. Just so happened that someone decide to check out the flux while we were fluxing lol.

Anyhow, IMO the real issue is people are just selfish. For morality's sake, you have no business touching someone else's popped NM (now that there are multiple ???s) unless they full wipe. People that don't agree with this just want free ***w/o the effort.

In some cases though you've already fluxed it and a random person runs past, DOESN'T see you there and claims the NM he didn't know you were fluxing it, hell alot of might not know that you could be running away from it for all they know.

Stay engaged? I don't know what to tell you. I was more referring to when a group full wipes. If you wipe, you screwed up plain and simple. If a bst is soloing, as long as it is done in a timely fashion, I leave them alone.

If I see people wiping on a popped NM, I usually ask "Do you need any help?"

Then wouldn't they invite you to party so that you could kill it? lol

Stay Engaged? You obviously know nothing about BST.

Particularly evident with Fistule, even if the BST is engaged and striking fistule, the pet will sometimes just lose hate and attack something else (Of it's own volition, with no intervention of the beastmaster) causing the target to go yellow.

There is seriously nothing that can be done, short of just not killing the mob.



I'm a lot more sympathetic to full-wipes. Honestly, even with Atma of the Apoc, I've gone down to Sobek's Tyrant Tusk, and it got taken, I hold nobody responsible. I probably could have held it long enough to unweaken, but honestly, my time is more valuable than that. Personally, I wouldn't do it unless it was obvious they were done with the mob. Everyone is a little greedy, and there's nothing really wrong with having some ambition-driven greed. Just being tasteful about it is a plus, it means you have some integrity. I myself took a Carabosse that wiped a 6 man (lvl85 cap, before Atma of Apocalypse), but I wasn't all "LOLOL I GOT UR MOB".

Funny Sobek wipe story though, a friend of mine was just mass-brewing 2 at a time (with 11 pops ready), the first 2 that popped did Tyrant Tusk after the first Cataclysm and killed him with brew on.

We killed ruminator after some bst lost claim. Hochomasamune dropped and we gave it back to him. Depending on the situation and the other group isn't being *** you really should give trophy items back imo. But then theres situation like the other night some duo was trying to hold heqet while while fighting funeral apukulku while my group is trying to farm pops, heqet was yellow and we are not gonna wait for you so I engaged, stun > flash that ki is mine.

Did you get KI? I like to let KI Nms yellow after claiming them :) nice to let other people kill and red the NM for you to get Ki.

You are correct, I don't know anything about bst, which is why I specifically said I was referring to full wipes. And that for the most part I dont take from bst's

This pretty much killed the thread, lol.