Facio Vs Orison +2

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Facio vs Orison +2
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 Odin.Dezaar
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By Odin.Dezaar 2011-06-15 11:05:45
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I saw some information on this but I still have a question.

I am semi new to the WHM world but actually loving the job. I currently use a Facio 12% CP + Conserve MP +2.

About to finish my Orison +2 Body. It would appear the overall benefit from the +2 will beat the Facio.

Thoughts? Or is there a direct answer to this that I misses. I Apologize if that is the case.
 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2011-06-15 11:10:26
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If I remember correctly, Orison +2 body only beats any cure potency % body if you are able to reach the 50% potency cap in your other slots.
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 Ragnarok.Ganukay
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By Ragnarok.Ganukay 2011-06-15 11:15:30
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Check out some of the gear sets, here

Basically, if you can manage to get at least 41% cure potency without a body slot, you're better off using Orison +2 (assuming you're using solace). Since the stoneskin bonus is an extra 10%, your tank will benefit more from stoneskin than extra cure potency, as long as you're within 10% of that cure potency cap. The goal to shoot for is a 50% cure potency set, with the +2 body, which is difficult to reach without spending a lot on a roundel earring, or dropping your HP to use Medicine Ring
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 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2011-06-15 11:35:56
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if you can reach 49~50% cure potency without body or atma then yes +2 body is going to always be better.

A lot of whm's can't reach that lvl of potency so that is why they stick with Noble's/Aritso/Facio and they'd be correct for doing so.
 Odin.Dezaar
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By Odin.Dezaar 2011-06-15 12:11:45
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Perfect ~ thank you for the response.
 Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-06-15 12:51:20
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seriously.. this thread the exact same thread is only 4 days old people I thought I was having deja vu, at least humor us by poking your nose around a little bit.
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 Odin.Dezaar
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By Odin.Dezaar 2011-06-15 15:17:06
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Carbuncle.Tweeek said:
seriously.. this thread the exact same thread is only 4 days old people I thought I was having deja vu, at least humor us by poking your nose around a little bit.

Honestly skipped over that one as the title lead me to think "basic" and not gear related but my bad for not reading it. Similar, not exactly my questions but point taken.
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By Sylph.Perryk 2011-06-16 10:56:40
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Maybe we can put this question to rest completely. I did some calculations, please correct me if I'm wrong.

At 45% potency in other slots, Orison+1 pulls ahead of any potency body.
(1.30*1.45 = 1.885 vs. 1.25*1.5 = 1.875)

At 26% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 10% body.
(1.35*1.26 = 1.701 vs. 1.25*1.36 = 1.7)

At 38% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 11% body.
(1.35*1.38 = 1.863 vs. 1.25*1.49 = 1.8625)

At 39% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 12-14% bodies.
(1.35*1.39 = 1.8765 vs. 1.25*1.5 = 1.875)

Edit: Hmm, this is assumes that your cures are not reaching cureskin cap. So for +1 body, this is only true if your cure amount is less than 350/.3 = 1166.66. For +2 body, this is true if your cure amount is less than 400/.35 = 1142.857. Doesn't seem like Cure 5 will reach this, but Cure 6 would probably reach it easily.
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 Odin.Dezaar
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By Odin.Dezaar 2011-06-16 11:06:30
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Sylph.Perryk said:
Maybe we can put this question to rest completely. I did some calculations, please correct me if I'm wrong.

At 45% potency in other slots, Orison+1 pulls ahead of any potency body.
(1.30*1.45 = 1.885 vs. 1.25*1.5 = 1.875)

At 26% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 10% body.
(1.35*1.26 = 1.701 vs. 1.25*1.36 = 1.7)

At 38% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 11% body.
(1.35*1.38 = 1.863 vs. 1.25*1.49 = 1.8625)

At 39% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 12-14% bodies.
(1.35*1.39 = 1.8765 vs. 1.25*1.5 = 1.875)

Nice man!
 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2011-06-16 11:07:07
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Sylph.Perryk said:
Maybe we can put this question to rest completely. I did some calculations, please correct me if I'm wrong. At 45% potency in other slots, Orison+1 pulls ahead of any potency body. (1.30*1.45 = 1.885 vs. 1.25*1.5 = 1.875) At 26% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 10% body. (1.35*1.26 = 1.701 vs. 1.25*1.36 = 1.7) At 38% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 11% body. (1.35*1.38 = 1.863 vs. 1.25*1.49 = 1.8625) At 39% potency in other slots, Orison+2 pulls ahead of 12-14% bodies. (1.35*1.39 = 1.8765 vs. 1.25*1.5 = 1.875)
While this is all fine and dandy I don't think this puts it to rest only confuses the issue more.

To put it to rest. If you can get to 49~50% cure potency without Cure potency on body then +2 will always win. Nothing else really needs to be said.
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 Sylph.Perryk
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By Sylph.Perryk 2011-06-16 11:28:13
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Bahamut.Zorander said:

To put it to rest. If you can get to 49~50% cure potency without Cure potency on body then +2 will always win. Nothing else really needs to be said.

If you can get 49-50% potency in other slots of course that's true. But (assuming you're not using med ring) you need Fylgja and Roundel for that - not every whm is going to have these options. Any whm with +2 body should be able to hit 39% with relative ease - Surya's+2, Orison Cap+1, Orison Cape, Orison Earring, Serpentes Set. And that's all that is needed to make +2 body better than any cure potency body (at least for Cure V).
 Carbuncle.Tweeek
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-06-16 11:28:45
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Bahamut.Zorander said:

While this is all fine and dandy I don't think this puts it to rest only confuses the issue more.

To put it to rest. If you can get to 49~50% cure potency without Cure potency on body then +2 will always win. Nothing else really needs to be said.

this.




I wouldn't personally (and didn't) make the jump until I hit 49%/50% without body slot.

If people are wondering why we keep saying 49% it's because a 49% trumps the standard 50% set (the standard one not including dual wielding with 2 cure potency clubs)

"most beneficial cure set" (without using med ring or an nontraditional subjob that lets you dual wield)
 Asura.Patriclis
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By Asura.Patriclis 2011-06-16 11:31:13
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Make a macro for the stoneskin body that's not a normal cure macro for when you actually need that stoneskin, which isnt all the time.

Otherwise use the Facio bliault. Yes you can cap cure potency in other slots and main the +2 body but then you miss out on more -enmity, Conserve MP, MND, VIT etc in other slots having to use less conventional gear to make up for that 12% you can get in 1 slot.

Point in case use both. WHM is not a job where you use 1 gearset for everything despite the fact that many whms try to pull that kind of thing off.
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-06-16 11:38:34
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Asura.Patriclis said:
Make a macro for the stoneskin body that's not a normal cure macro for when you actually need that stoneskin, which isnt all the time.

Otherwise use the Facio bliault. Yes you can cap cure potency in other slots and main the +2 body but then you miss out on more -enmity, Conserve MP, MND, VIT etc in other slots having to use less conventional gear to make up for that 12% you can get in 1 slot.

Point in case use both. WHM is not a job where you use 1 gearset for everything despite the fact that many whms try to pull that kind of thing off.

100% completely disagree with you SCH, we use spells called Cure V and Cure VI. The only time I would even consider not using my AF3 body is if I was full timing Afflatus Misery for a specific fight. Even still I wouldn't even bother cause I'm only missing out on 1% cure potency. Besides I use less MND and more -enm gear set for my Cure IIIs and IVs like most experienced WHMs.

If you got -enmity problems I feel bad for ya son, we got 99 problems but -enmity ain't 1.
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 Asura.Patriclis
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By Asura.Patriclis 2011-06-16 11:42:42
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Carbuncle.Tweeek said:

I wouldn't personally (and didn't) make the jump until I hit 49%/50% without body slot.

If people are wondering why we keep saying 49% it's because a 49% trumps the standard 50% set (the standard one not including dual wielding with 2 cure potency clubs)

"most beneficial cure set" (without using med ring or an nontraditional subjob that lets you dual wield)

hmm -13 enmity eh? seems... terrible.



More -enmity, still capped cure potency. No +2 body, and if your tank needs it, you need to get a new tank.

Boosting a 30 second stoneskin by a small amount will never be worth the huge loss in -enmity and other stats you have to give up by putting cure potency in other slots.

And i realize other WHMs out there will try and crucify me for this post but hey, that's why I don't do things with other WHMs.
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2011-06-16 11:43:40
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Asura.Patriclis said:
Make a macro for the stoneskin body that's not a normal cure macro for when you actually need that stoneskin, which isnt all the time. Otherwise use the Facio bliault. Yes you can cap cure potency in other slots and main the +2 body but then you miss out on more -enmity, Conserve MP, MND, VIT etc in other slots having to use less conventional gear to make up for that 12% you can get in 1 slot. Point in case use both. WHM is not a job where you use 1 gearset for everything despite the fact that many whms try to pull that kind of thing off.
I'd rather full time (or very close to full time +2) than carry around 2 or 3 extra bodies for more VIT, MND or -emn. Everytime on every cure you improve cureskin from 25 to 35%..and it can break the 300 stoneskin cap..that is not really something that should be over looked expecially for something as silly as Vit. It has been proven over and over again that +2 body is the best pick if you have around 50% potency. Oh and don't forget 1 more tick of refresh in the long run will do you more good than a few extra vit, mnd or -emn.
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-06-16 11:44:49
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Asura.Patriclis said:
Carbuncle.Tweeek said:

I wouldn't personally (and didn't) make the jump until I hit 49%/50% without body slot.

If people are wondering why we keep saying 49% it's because a 49% trumps the standard 50% set (the standard one not including dual wielding with 2 cure potency clubs)

"most beneficial cure set" (without using med ring or an nontraditional subjob that lets you dual wield)

hmm -13 enmity eh? seems... terrible.



More -enmity, still capped cure potency. No +2 body, and if your tank needs it, you need to get a new tank.

Boosting a 30 second stoneskin by a small amount will never be worth the huge loss in -enmity and other stats you have to give up by putting cure potency in other slots.

And i realize other WHMs out there will try and crucify me for this post but hey, that's why I don't do things with other WHMs.

lolurbad.
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 Asura.Patriclis
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By Asura.Patriclis 2011-06-16 11:48:02
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lol I feel bad for you guys since you actually believe the ***you're saying.

Though you're not on asura and I don't have to have you guys as my WHM so I see no point in trying to teach you morons how to play.

Oh and again, if you think that stoneskin is really important, for the love of god, find a better tank lmao.
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-06-16 11:49:05
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JESUSLORD you must be trolling seriously...


4.5 million for hands and feet alone is what you suggest for curing? As if everyone has a Pythia +1 too.. Not to mention you're implying we should end cast in fast cast gear not Ajari neck rather than just use precast gear as oh idunno precast?


You seriously are talking out of your ***.. badly, please go away you don't know how to play WHM
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2011-06-16 11:49:40
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Asura.Patriclis said:
Carbuncle.Tweeek said:
I wouldn't personally (and didn't) make the jump until I hit 49%/50% without body slot. If people are wondering why we keep saying 49% it's because a 49% trumps the standard 50% set (the standard one not including dual wielding with 2 cure potency clubs) "most beneficial cure set" (without using med ring or an nontraditional subjob that lets you dual wield)
hmm -13 enmity eh? seems... terrible. More -enmity, still capped cure potency. No +2 body, and if your tank needs it, you need to get a new tank. Boosting a 30 second stoneskin by a small amount will never be worth the huge loss in -enmity and other stats you have to give up by putting cure potency in other slots. And i realize other WHMs out there will try and crucify me for this post but hey, that's why I don't do things with other WHMs.
I could use the same saying then right? "if you tank can't keep hate off the whm's then you need a new tank"

Everything we do is in Abyssea I dont know what Atma's you use but you seem to be a -emn/mnd freak so im guess MM is a given as well as Allure? Umm thats like -30 or more I can't remember right now -emn. In abyssea where mobs are glued to the heavy DD'ers how much -emn could you possible need?
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-06-16 11:53:45
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-enm caps at 50 so if your tanks are as bad as you make them sound on lolasura use Allure/MM atmas like Zorlander suggested.


If we're talking about loloutside content we use more Cure IIIs and IVs with a different set with more -enm, less MND since MND stops being beneficial much quicker compared to V/VI
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2011-06-16 11:54:41
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Oh I was wrong. Allure is -30 and MM is -20 and the cap for -emn is 50. So yes your set has 33 to much emn that does nothing and it puts you well past cap. So your gear sets in abyssea are completely useless and +2 wins again.

Edit: In before "you nubs im talking aboot outside of Abyssea..DUH!"
 Asura.Patriclis
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By Asura.Patriclis 2011-06-16 11:55:13
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@Tweeek
I have no response as you said nothing valid

@Zorander
Hate reset.
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By Odin.Sheelay 2011-06-16 11:56:48
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WTF is with all the repetitive threads? Do people really have to reply again and again to the very same questions?

Can't we simply tag the topics that have already answered these same questions so they stay on top of the list?

Take this one for example http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/20246/most-advantageous-whm-cure-potency-setup/
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-06-16 11:57:24
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Patriclis you got a mule WHM you use or what cause it looks like you don't even have WHM or Surya on that account.. sup?


lmao @ hate reset. -enm does not help you when hate is reset and your tank should be able to get hate back very quickly if he isn't terribad.. also any decent WHM can take hits with solace+idleset it's not hard
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By Asura.Patriclis 2011-06-16 11:58:21
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Unless you don't use Allure because you're smart enough to realize all that MP boost is a waste and you get ambition instead.
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By Asura.Xenophire 2011-06-16 11:58:57
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Asura.Patriclis said:
lol I feel bad for you guys since you actually believe the ***you're saying.

Though you're not on asura and I don't have to have you guys as my WHM so I see no point in trying to teach you morons how to play.

Oh and again, if you think that stoneskin is really important, for the love of god, find a better tank lmao.
Hey, why don't you level WHM before you start spewing your ***.
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By Carbuncle.Tweeek 2011-06-16 11:58:59
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Odin.Sheelay said:
WTF is with all the repetitive threads? Do people really have to reply again and again to the very same questions?

Can't we simply tag the topics that have already answered these same questions so they stay on top of the list?

Take this one for example http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/20246/most-advantageous-whm-cure-potency-setup/

helping kill bad fudd.. you know like the first time we had to convince you what the best possible set was for you to use with your available gear :)
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By Asura.Patriclis 2011-06-16 11:59:43
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Carbuncle.Tweeek said:
Patriclis you got a mule WHM you use or what cause it looks like you don't even have WHM or Surya on that account.. sup?

lmao @ hate reset. -enm does not help you when hate is reset and your tank should be able to get hate back very quickly if he isn't terribad.. also any decent WHM can take hits with solace+idleset it's not hard

No im leveling it currently. best friend in game is a fantastic WHM.

-enm makes it so your tank gets hate back quicker or so you're not next on the hate list with 3+ people.
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