Redundancy In RL And In IG....

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2010-09-08
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Redundancy in RL and in IG....
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 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-03-01 03:15:19
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User submitted image

Now that we got that out of the way, let me tell ya a story about my day today (3-1).

I desided to go to Osaka today to watch a movie, and to go to the Tennoji Zoo (A park/temple in Osaka, they also have a zoo, go figure).

After all that fun and excitement (not), I desided to go get something from McDonnalds instead of going back to my dorm room and cook some crap (pun intended). I looked down on my place mat and saw this, and automatically thought this would be a good idea for a thread to discuss with people:

User submitted image

Hopefully it won't take long to see the redundancy in the photo.

So, basically, share somethings about what happen in your life, or in game if you don't have a life outside of the screen.
 Shiva.Jimmyjazz
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By Shiva.Jimmyjazz 2009-03-01 11:57:27
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lol, not sure if "New McHotDog Classic" is redundant so much as it is contradicting?

And whats up with the color of that dog yo. Looks like it is curry flavor or something, very interesting!
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-03-01 17:42:59
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I would have said contradicting, but to contradict means to say something against the known. Since this is a new product (and herefor unknown) redundant is more apporpriate for this. Not even going to spell check today -.-

Its not curry flavor btw. Unless it is. Who knows, I haven't had it yet (they haven't released it on the menu as far as I know, but then again, I haven't been at a McDs since last night.
 Bahamut.Ziggz
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By Bahamut.Ziggz 2009-03-01 18:04:13
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i dun really understand your logic there korpg. new and classic are opposite words, so they would be contradicting.
http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=contradict
http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=redundant
 Midgardsormr.Peytons
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By Midgardsormr.Peytons 2009-03-01 18:21:12
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Oxymoronic
 Ifrit.Haseyo
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By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-03-01 18:58:09
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I say contradiction.
How can something be classic if it is new? <- questioning.

Redudancy would be "All new hodog that has never been on the market before!" <- well no ***, it's all new.
 Garuda.Tyfoon
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By Garuda.Tyfoon 2009-03-01 19:06:31
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Its new to them, old to others.

Case Closed~!
 Unicorn.Tavlov
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By Unicorn.Tavlov 2009-03-01 19:41:47
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Classic speaks for itself, its new as in, it is back out. Bottom line, its stupid, but thats marketing for ya.
 Ifrit.Haseyo
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By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-03-01 19:46:25
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Tavlov said:
Bottom line, it's stupid, but that's the Japanese for ya.
 Unicorn.Tavlov
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By Unicorn.Tavlov 2009-03-01 19:48:12
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Thats a good point all in itself, i doubt hotdogs are big in japan. "New" would make even more sense there.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-03-01 21:03:19
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Tavlov said:
Thats a good point all in itself, i doubt hotdogs are big in japan. "New" would make even more sense there.


You are so far away from the truth, it hurts.

Hot dogs are big in Japan. But they consider it as a breakfast food than as a lunch food.

Tavlov said:
Classic speaks for itself, its new as in, it is back out. Bottom line, its stupid, but thats marketing for ya.


Its marketing, somewhat. Use of a word makes the item in question sound good (i.e. usage of the word "classic" in this case makes it sound like its a generally accepted idea (or taste) and that "improvements" have been made, but since it is just coming out, this is the first version, which is also the most popular version outside of Japan (although I doubt any McDs sell hotdogs period)) and desirable. Its not stupid, it influences stupid people into thinking that something is good or desirable.

Tyfoon said:
Its new to them, old to others.

Case Closed~!


How is it new to Japan if other countries don't have it? Unless you know of a country that sells "Hot Dog Classics" though. If you do, please say which countries that sells it.

Ziggz said:
i dun really understand your logic there korpg. new and classic are opposite words, so they would be contradicting.
http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=contradict
http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=redundant


Using your example:

Contradict said:
prove negative; show to be false


How can you prove negative if it never existed before? You can't contradict a time warp if a time warp never existed in reality.

Redundant said:
use of more words than required to express an idea


In this case, the word "classic" should not exist, because how can something be new and be classic at the same time?

So, thanks for proving my point Ziggz.

Now, off the topic of the picture, I'm sure you guys know some redundant stuff on and off the game. Post some stuff about it.
 Fenrir.Alijah
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By Fenrir.Alijah 2009-03-01 21:31:24
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Contradict does not mean to 'prove false' in such a literal sense, but rather 'to imply the opposite or a denial of' according to the Webster dictionary.

According to wiki, it 'occurs when the propositions, taken together, yield two conclusions which form the logical inversions of each other.' Following Aristotle's Law of Noncontradiction, "if one is true, the other is not; one of the two must be true." It is either new, or it is a classic. It cannot be both. You can find both articles on Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction

Redundant, however, is listed as "characterized by similarity or repetition." IE, The Redundant Department of Redundancy.

However, Im not quite sure I'd still consider it a contradiction. When I read it, I easily understood it to mean it's such a wonderful item (in their opinion anyways, I hate hotdogs), it will become the new 'classic' thing. In the same vein of the Next Big Thing; as in, it's not yet known but it will be soon enough and will become a favorite item.

But all this is a moot point.

Hotdogs, from Mcdonalds? Ew.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-03-01 21:40:43
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Alijah said:

Hotdogs, from Mcdonalds? Ew.


Wheat bun, Mustard and relish, no cheese. No thanks.

Alijah said:
Contradict does not mean to 'prove false' in such a literal sense, but rather 'to imply the opposite or a denial of' according to the Webster dictionary.

According to wiki, it 'occurs when the propositions, taken together, yield two conclusions which form the logical inversions of each other.' Following Aristotle's Law of Noncontradiction, "if one is true, the other is not; one of the two must be true." It is either new, or it is a classic. It cannot be both. You can find both articles on Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_noncontradiction

However, Im not quite sure I'd still consider it a contradiction. When I read it, I easily understood it to mean it's such a wonderful item (in their opinion anyways, I hate hotdogs), it will become the new 'classic' thing. In the same vein of the Next Big Thing; as in, it's not yet known but it will be soon enough and will become a favorite item soon enough.


Sorry I'm such a literal guy. I'm still backing my theory stating that "redundant" is more approprate than "contradict" in this case, but it seems like the meaning can apply to both sides of the arguement.

You are right about Aristotle's Law of Noncontradiction and how it applies, but since this is an advertisement, not a statement, there is other things applied to this, which combines both statements that we are debating on.

I doubt that this will take hold in Japan to be honest. It is missing 2 key ingredients: Mayo and cheese. Most bakeries in Japan make hotdogs to have a ton of Mayo (or something close to that) and little bits of cheese inside the bun itself. Thats what makes a Japanese Hot Dog > American Hot Dog at some points (I still wish the meat wasn't so limpy, or small).

Alijah said:

But all this is a moot point.


That it is.
 Bahamut.Atrithk
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By Bahamut.Atrithk 2009-03-01 22:07:30
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You guys are reading too much into it.
The way the hot dog itself is dressed makes it "classic," where it is "new" at McDonald's.
Jeez, quoting Aristotle...I can't stop laughing.
 Fenrir.Alijah
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By Fenrir.Alijah 2009-03-01 22:12:55
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Im not reading into anything, the picture is stupid and I dont care what it's selling. I was reading into people blatantly and grossly misunderstanding the use and definition of a word.

I dont care what the context, if you're going to use the English language, use it correctly.
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-03-01 22:14:05
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Atrithk said:
You guys are reading too much into it.
Agreed. Korpg is wrong, end of story.

Alijah is right. The hotdog is called hotdog classic (or w/e it says), because it's a classic hotdog, just like everyone in the world can identify with (hopefully). New means it's new to McDonalds. If you really must belabour the point and over-examine an advertisement written in English in a *** Japanese McDonalds (I can't believe I'm taking the time to talk about this) instead of just taking it at face value, then the advert can be seen to be a little contradictive, as the word classic is often likened to old. But it is by no means redundant, as per your own example in the first image Korpg.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-03-01 22:16:57
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Blazza said:
Agreed. Korpg is wrong, end of story.


What! Korpg wrong?! Impossible!
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-03-01 22:17:47
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I'm not the one who turned this into a hot dog thread. I just wanted to start a redundancy thread, but it turned into a definition war.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-03-01 22:18:57
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Korpg said:
User submitted image


That wasn't really a step in the right direction then! People see image of a hot dog, bham... Thread becomes a hot dog thread. Why fight it? It is inevitable!
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-03-01 22:23:04
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Do people read anymore?

Or do you look at a picture and think "Oooh, pretty picture, its a thread about that picture." If I wanted to make a thread about what McDonalds is going to sell, I would have titled it "McDonalds is going to start selling Hot Dogs in Japan." I have not typed that as the title of this thread, and I would wish for it to have some discussion before the usual derailment happens. Threads should not be derailed right off the bat, there is no point in the matter.

At least put some information about redundant ***in RL or on the game. If you don't have anything to say about this topic, don't post it at all. Let it die, and I will know that nobody besides me actually go outside their room every now and then.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
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By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-03-01 22:24:00
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Korpg said:
If you don't have anything to say about this topic, don't post it at all.


Sorry, I'll see my way out your forums now.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-03-01 22:26:54
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Wooooodum said:

Sorry, I'll see my way out your forums now.


Wasn't directed towards you. I just wish that people post things useful before the bashing/derailment. Not as the second post. (Definition wise, it wasn't a bad second post, but it did derail it quickly afterwards)
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-03-01 22:31:54
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Quoting myself because my ninja edit skills fail.
Blazza said:
Alijah is right. The hotdog is called hotdog classic (or w/e it says), because it's a classic hotdog, just like everyone in the world can identify with (hopefully). New means it's new to McDonalds. If you really must belabour the point and over-examine an advertisement written in English in a *** Japanese McDonalds (I can't believe I'm taking the time to talk about this) instead of just taking it at face value, then the advert can be seen to be a little contradictive, as the word classic is often likened to old. But it is by no means redundant, as per your own example in the first image Korpg.


But you're right Korpg, we shouldn't continue to talk about the hotdog ad (that you were wrong about). Here's my own story of redundancy.

So, I was reading this forum, and I came across this thread called "Redundancy in RL and IG...."

Here's another one: Korpg

(Using the word redunant as I understand it, and according to (a) definition on dictionary.reference.com: 1. more than is needed, desired, or required)
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-03-01 22:38:45
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Blazza said:

But you're right Korpg, we shouldn't continue to talk about the hotdog ad (that you were wrong about). Here's my own story of redundancy.

So, I was reading this forum, and I came across this thread called "Redundancy in RL and IG...."

Here's another one: Korpg

(Using the word redunant as I understand it, and according to (a) definition on dictionary.reference.com: 1. more than is needed, desired, or required)


So basically, I make a thread to incourage thinking (since some people I know don't think much on this forum, and contradict themselves a lot without realizing it at first until they ninja edit themselves after being pointed out after-the-fact) so people can discuss/open their eyes a little more/walk outside somewhat to see things that are redundant in their world.

I also included IG possiblities (or the option to add those on) for those of you who don't get out much and are afraid of the sun (hint: use sunblock).

Since people love to call me out (either unneeded flames or attempts to flame me, since I don't give a ***about stupidity except to destroy it at all possible points (the world would be very empty if I was in charge of any nuklear weapons)) and point out pointless *** (i.e. see Blazza), I thought I would give you a chance to make yourselves look smart. I failed so far, nobody has anything to say really, except the definitions as they see fit.
 Asura.Reublucian
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By Asura.Reublucian 2009-03-01 22:53:47
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Are you a student in japan? What are you learning?
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-03-01 22:59:22
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Korpg said:
incourage thinking
*encourage
Korpg said:
contradict themselves a lot without realizing it at first until they ninja edit themselves after being pointed out after-the-fact
Firstly, I wasn't pointed out, and secondly, I only added stuff to my post (the part I quoted) to reinforce my point. Which funnily enough was redundant information, because everyone already knew you were wrong.
Korpg said:
I don't give a ***about stupidity except to destroy it at all possible points
I suggest jumping from high places
Korpg said:
I thought I would give you a chance to make yourselves look smart.
You give us more than enough of those.
Korpg said:
I failed
Well, we all stick with what we're good at.
Korpg said:
nobody has anything to say really, except the definitions as they see fit
Korpg said:
but since this is an advertisement, not a statement, there is other things applied to this, which combines both statements that we are debating on.
Better than just making up rules in the English language (like there aren't enough already) to try and make yourself sound right.
Korpg said:
I failed
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-03-01 23:31:29
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I agree, sorry--Redundancy is not synonymous with contradiction. Redundant would be unnecessary repetition of a stated fact on the poster: "NEW hotdog is NEW," etc. Contradiction is what you are referring to: "NEW hotdog is OLD."

And guys, I know Korpg has been involved in a few love spats between people he disagrees with, but there's no reason why you should unreasonably bash the guy's character for making a small mistake in his rhetoric in a thread about a hot dog. Calm the eff down. :O
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2009-03-01 23:34:25
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Anye said:
And guys, I know Korpg has been involved in a few love spats between people he disagrees with, but there's no reason why you should unreasonably bash the guy's character for making a small mistake in his rhetoric in a thread about a hot dog. Calm the eff down. :O


User submitted image
 Fenrir.Alijah
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By Fenrir.Alijah 2009-03-01 23:38:22
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Hows this for redundant.

I was sitting in Al Zahbi today waiting for Besieged to start and some guy blind invites me. I decline but say nothing. A few minutes later, another one from the same guy. This time, I /t him, No Thanks, and decline again. A few minutes later, ANOTHER ONE. Then he /t's me, "Party." as if I didnt know what he was trying to accomplish. I decline this one again.

Sure enough, a minute later, "HACON INVITES YOU TO JOIN A PARTY" and finally I tell him in a not-so-friendly to eff off and blist him.

Ugh! How clueless do you have to be. /rant.
 Ragnarok.Anye
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By Ragnarok.Anye 2009-03-01 23:47:03
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<3 Jaerik

^ That's redundant because I've said it a lot :D
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