Absolute Virtues

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2010-09-08
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Absolute Virtues
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 Hades.Dekar
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By Hades.Dekar 2009-01-20 15:25:45
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I'm just curious what all ideas have been used to try and kill it want to compile every1's ideas and see what we all learn from each other.
 Pandemonium.Bartimaeus
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By Pandemonium.Bartimaeus 2009-01-20 15:26:57
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/bump and:

(Please try to keep the discussion relevant and respectful.)

I'm also interested in this
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-01-20 15:43:33
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There are threads that are VERY long that go through everything imaginable regarding AV. People are extremely annoyed by AV talk now and any thread of this nature will no doubt turn into a flame SE / lolebon panels discution. Your best bet would be to check alla, KI, or BG for massive threads regarding this.
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 Pandemonium.Bartimaeus
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By Pandemonium.Bartimaeus 2009-01-20 15:47:53
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:[

I was hoping, as maybe the OP was, to avoid BG. Le sigh.
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 Hades.Dekar
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By Hades.Dekar 2009-01-20 17:05:19
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hmm why didn't my post post lets try again
 Hades.Dekar
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By Hades.Dekar 2009-01-20 17:07:07
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strange ok well i myself have never read or looked into it and there's gotta be something were all missing. compiling all the data together on 1 threads makes it much easier for analysis and structured outlines for new ideas thoughts etc. i guess i can't force anyone to post there AV expierences just figured it'd be nice to compile it on 1 thread
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 Asura.Melisia
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By Asura.Melisia 2009-01-20 17:30:50
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The reason no one is successful when they try to fight AV is very simple. He can be killed in two hours and with standard means. The reason why no one has defeated av with out kraken zerg/ glitch/ pre patches is because of the way they approach the fight.

I have learned the secret to beating AV while training with my Bokken in real life. AV is not the ultimate monster in FFXI. You are the ultimate monster. You must fight AV as if you were fighting yourself. While I can not be any more specific the means to defeat AV are clearly seen in the AV video released by SE. I did not understand the video at first either, hopefully this post will be helpful.
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 Valefor.Forgotten
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By Valefor.Forgotten 2009-01-20 17:42:51
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Melisia said:
The reason no one is successful when they try to fight AV is very simple. He can be killed in two hours and with standard means. The reason why no one has defeated av with out kraken zerg/ glitch/ pre patches is because of the way they approach the fight.

I have learned the secret to beating AV while training with my Bokken in real life. AV is not the ultimate monster in FFXI. You are the ultimate monster. You must fight AV as if you were fighting yourself. While I can not be any more specific the means to defeat AV are clearly seen in the AV video released by SE. I did not understand the video at first either, hopefully this post will be helpful.

Well if I were fighting a version of me that had all 2hrs usable multiple times including benediction and the ability to wipe out an alliance with instant cast meteorites I'd start off with trying a kraken ze... D'OH!

And I didn't even mention other nasties like exploding wyverns.
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 Hades.Dekar
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By Hades.Dekar 2009-01-20 18:34:43
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anyone know the link or where i can find the video released by SE?
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 Valefor.Forgotten
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By Valefor.Forgotten 2009-01-20 18:53:08
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Dekar said:
anyone know the link or where i can find the video released by SE?

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/download/wind/asx/AV_EN.asx
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 Phoenix.Strongside
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By Phoenix.Strongside 2009-01-20 18:56:01
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Melisia said:
The reason no one is successful when they try to fight AV is very simple. He can be killed in two hours and with standard means. The reason why no one has defeated av with out kraken zerg/ glitch/ pre patches is because of the way they approach the fight.

I have learned the secret to beating AV while training with my Bokken in real life. AV is not the ultimate monster in FFXI. You are the ultimate monster. You must fight AV as if you were fighting yourself. While I can not be any more specific the means to defeat AV are clearly seen in the AV video released by SE. I did not understand the video at first either, hopefully this post will be helpful.


Just thinking your bad *** isn't gonna beat AV. lol
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 Midgardsormr.Sammitch
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By Midgardsormr.Sammitch 2009-01-20 23:25:21
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Melisia said:
I have learned the secret to beating AV while training with my Bokken in real life. AV is not the ultimate monster in FFXI. You are the ultimate monster. You must fight AV as if you were fighting yourself.

Solution: suicide! :D
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 Diabolos.Sovereign
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By Diabolos.Sovereign 2009-01-21 00:30:53
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lol might as well close this thread before it ever gets started.

On a serious note, if you're actually interested in defeating AV, there is tons of available information online written by some of the more experienced of the player's community. Player's personal livejournals of actual attempts I found have some of the best information, but finding the real quality posts is sometimes difficult. Other FFXI forums like BlueGartr have an incredible amount of information as well.

But nothing will tell you more than actual experience, so your best bet is to go pop it and try to kill it. SE made it a 100% spawn in a previous update off a Jailer of Love kill, just to give everyone more chances at it.

All that SE video tells you is when to use two hours. Any time AV two hours (dust cloud animation), so does everyone else in the alliance. My working assumption is that AV using his two hour will reset yours. But I cannot confirm this since my linkshell doesnt even want to try killing it anymore lol

Otherwise, I would assume it is appropriate use of Shadowbind, since it is the only movement debilitating ability that works on AV. He will resist all other forms (gravity, bind, etc.). Though, the "appropriate" usage of Shadowbind is obviously up for debate.
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 Valefor.Forgotten
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By Valefor.Forgotten 2009-01-21 00:40:21
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Quote:
All that SE video tells you is when to use two hours. Any time AV two hours (dust cloud animation), so does everyone else in the alliance. My working assumption is that AV using his two hour will reset yours. But I cannot confirm this since my linkshell doesnt even want to try killing it anymore lol
People who've tried it since the video came out already confirmed that their 2hr did not get reset.
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 Fairy.Vytiss
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By Fairy.Vytiss 2009-12-10 13:22:20
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For those of you interested in speculating... and don't troll BG forums:
(copied from http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81211)

_________________________________________________________________
It was suggested a thread be made to convey everything I believe is known about AV at this point in time. In hopes that someone can disclose additional information which could lead to a kill in the future. Being pretty optimistic but hopefully more groups will try, and possibly the final trick will become apparent to someone.

Currently the lowest we have gotten it to is approximately 43%, but that is pretty much irrelevant due to the fact that getting it lower is nearly impossible so you can make the assumption that there is 1 final trick that is yet unknown. The only true problem is that bracelets meteor makes it nearly impossible to handle, even if you were to take it to the main entrance ramp and play flawlessly with an impeccable absorb party. Bracelets meteor is in essence a manafonted meteor damage-wise, but it can be casted at random (i.e. the choice between aerogaIV, aeroV, tornadoII, meteor, and comet). The only thing that needs to happen in order to kill effectively is the locking or weakening of bracelets meteor.

A rumor we received a while back said that a group locked 15/15 (i.e actually locked astral flow, mijin, and familiar instead of just locking call wyvern) and in doing this, meteor was locked. We attempted to lock all but we ran out of time, obviously locking all 15 takes a while so it is not easy in the amount of time you have (plus you obviously have to take AV to 79% in order to find out whether or not this was effective in locking meteor). One thing to remember if you are going to try this is that the last 2hr that remains unlocked will only be used once, whether you locked it or not (e.g. currently 13/15 2hrs are locked, AV will rotate between the 2 because it cannot use the same 2hr twice in a row ever, so it will be doing Mighty Strikes>Hundred Fists>Mighty Strikes>ect., once one of these is locked it will only use the last 2hr it has access to 1 time because it can't use it twice in a row, and so you have to be ready for it). Good Luck..




Absolute Virtue

HP: 65,000~70,000 range


Traits:
· Auto-Regen
· Draw-In
· Enhanced Movement Speed
· Instant Cast

Stats: Information gathered from Suriam and Kaeko, thanks.
· INT = 89
· MDB = +100 (2.0MDB)
· MAB = +132 (2.32MAB) + unknown amount after bracelets are out

Abilities: (Will WS directly after a 2hr which makes it unable to WS during)
· Impact Stream – AoE damage, stun, and 50%DEF down; wipes shadows (10yalms)
· Wing Thrust – Single target damage and slow; the slow does not overwrite haste.
· Auroral Wind – Cone attack wind damage and silence.
· Medusa Javelin – Single target damage and petrification; absorbed by 1 shadow.
· Explosive Impulse – AoE damage, and stun; enmity loss; absorbed by 2 or 3 shadows (Meikyo Shisui only, or after 79% HP)

Spell list: (Will cast approx. every 15~35sec; will cast directly after a 2hr which makes it unable to cast during)
· Aero V
· Aeroga IV
· Tornado II
· Comet (During Manafont, or after 79% HP)
· Meteor (During Manafont, or after 79% HP, Meteor is 25 AoE off current target)


Regen:
The auto-regen is dispelled from killing JoL’s pet sets (unknown amount needed in order to lock AV’s regen fully, however it takes approximately 18~20 sets to fully lock JoL’s), and by casting magical attacks which correspond to the current Vana'diel day, there only needs to be a certain number of casts, not a certain number of damage to lock this portion of the regen (e.g. if it was Lightsday you are only required to cast Dia, an undetermined number of casts which will never be known; it could be so many casts that hit day bonus effect, but again this will never be known so it is pretty much irrelevant). If AV has lost all hate the regen will remain locked.



2hrs:

AV will activate a random 2hr every 30-60 seconds (inference based off of video timelines, highly unlikely that range is 100% accurate). If the 2hr it uses has a timed duration, the 30-60 second timer is started when the effect wears off. The 30-60 second recast timer on 2hrs stops when AV deaggros, and it will begin counting down every time AV is aggroed. Abilities that rely on pets (Mijin Gakure, Astral Flow, Familiar) cannot be accessed if none of its wynavs are out, however can be if even 1 is out. In order to lock AV’s 2hrs you must deal at least 0DMG to AV (may just need to be on hate list and in alliance), you need to be within what we have found to be 20 distance from AV in order for the 2hr to effectively be locked, and counter his 2hr in ~3sec, and then proceed to counter 2hr after 2hr (example: ‘Absolute Virtue uses Manafont’ > ‘Player uses Manafont’). If AV has lost all hate, 2hrs will remain locked. Locking 14/15 2hrs causes AV to not use the last 2hr more than once due to the fact that it is designed to be unable to use the same 2hr back-to-back (example: 14/15 just got locked, the last 2hr will be used one time only, after which it cannot 2hr again). During certain 2hrs AV will not cast or use abilities throughout the duration of effect.

Mighty Strikes: (45sec) AV will not cast or WS.

Hundred Fists: (45sec) AV will not cast or WS.

Benediction: (Instant) AV will recover all HP.

Manafont: (60sec) AV will cast Meteor or Comet approx. every 8-10sec. (will not cast AeroV, AerogaIV, TornadoII, or WS)

Chainspell: (60sec) AV will cast AeroV, AerogaIV, and TornadoII (Meteor and Comet are not casted after 79% even tho they are then on its spell list); it will cast 12-13 spells. (will not WS)

Perfect Dodge: (30sec) AV will continue to cast and WS.

Invincible: (30sec) AV will continue to cast and WS.

Blood Weapon: (30sec) AV will not cast or WS.

Familiar: (Instant) Wynavs will gain attack and their max HP doubles to roughly 3000. (only used when Wynavs are present)

Soul Voice: (90sec) AV will cast Maiden’s Virelai approx. every 10sec. (will not cast AeroV, AerogaIV, TornadoII, or WS)

Eagle Eye Shot: (Instant) --- Can be absorbed by 1 shadow.

Meikyo Shisui: (Until TP:0; assumption) AV will use either Medusa Javelin, and/or Explosive Impulse 5 times in a row; if unaggroed before 5 WSs are used AV’s TP regain can allow for additional WSs. (will not cast spells)

Mijin Gakure: (Instant) Wynavs will use Mijin Gakure on current target. (only used when Wynavs are present)

Call Wyvern: (Instant) AV will spawn 3 Wynavs that instantly start attacking its current target. (6 Wynavs spawn when in bracelets mode)

Astral Flow: (Instant) Wynavs will gain TP and use a random Breath attack instantly. (only used while Wynavs are present)

When Absolute Virtue’s HP reaches 79%, it can cast Meteor and Comet without the use of Manafont, and use Explosive Impulse without the use of Meikyo Shisui, however Meteor and Comet are much weaker (approx 1/2 of the base damage of Meteor or Comet when casted under the effect of Manafont). When it reaches 59%, it brings out red bracelets, which increase its attack and MAB greatly. It becomes capable of summoning six wynavs, and will use 2hr abilities in combinations of three. If AV has lost all hate, different AI modes will remain. AV is immune to any form of enfeebles with the exception of some DoT spells, and a few other random things we aren’t even aware of, but are pretty much irrelevant (Fenrir’s Lunar Cry has landed). However, all DoT spells will fall off instantly when it deaggros. Once AV reaches bracelets mode, if it previously did not have all 2hrs locked, they will now be locked if they do not form at least 2/3 2hrs in a set (this is still not entirely clear to us, but it appears to work this way). As AV’s HP decreases it gains both physical and magical resistance as far as damage is concerned, i.e., it progressively takes less damage. Shield Bash damage ranged from 110~223 from 45~100% HP, and non-resisted AMII ranged from 500~800 (this is not damage cut from NM elemental resist building).


Few Bracelets 2hr sets (irrelevant):
(Call Wyvern>Familiar>Astral Flow)
(Invincible>Benediction>Mijin Gakure)
(Meikyo Shisui>Eagle Eye Shot>Eagle Eye Shot>Eagle Eye Shot)


Aern's Wynav
· 1500 HP
· Will cast Tier IV and ga III spells that correspond to the current Vana'diel day
· Susceptible to Gravity and Silence (if resistance builds it takes forever to occur)
· Will ‘walk’ back to Absolute Virtue if deaggroed
· Enhanced Movement Speed

Link to videos of locked AV fighting.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1TU6XEFZ
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PVJPB7TF
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 Garuda.Hypnotizd
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By Garuda.Hypnotizd 2009-12-10 13:26:20
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 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-10 13:32:20
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If anyone does figure it out you can count on a quick emergency update to "fix" it
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By Mikumaru 2009-12-10 13:49:55
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i applaud the OP and wish you luck in your venture. honestly tho it might be better to spend weeks goin thru the billions of posts and pages of web info rather attempt to make a new thread . The link posted by Hyp is a good start as Virtuous Saint's Compile is very good . Most of the community tho is kinda sick of AV and discussing it . I would also second the emotion of the best way to figure it out is to fight it . Good luck with that too . Trying to find a group willing will probly be a quest too lol . I been hounding my LS for months to start makin attempts , but no one wants to hear it . Personally , i feel unless Square gives us more info or alters its behavior we'll probly never find the secret to beat it for many reasons .

If i could ask a question or try and find some more info on something , it would probly be Meteor and Comet as these spells seem to be what makes it the most difficult to deal with . to refference the video , which i have watched an uncountable number of times , to me it seems the Dev Team doesnt melee him except to WS (SATA WS) , and there are no surrounding Mobs i.e the 3 or 4 Aerns that spawn in that Alcove . I am still researching this theory , but i think its possible the use of Comet and Meteor are TP related . They deal so much DMG tho ,it seems almost impossible to gauge what affect TP has on it save for the use of it . I think that its highly likely its use is also based on TP gain , not just TP amount .

Again tho the community is just tired of it you will have a hard time to come to any conclusions . I am sure tho the answer is staring at us in the face , we're just too jaded to see it .
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 Asura.Rielle
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By Asura.Rielle 2009-12-10 14:26:56
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Mikumaru said:
Dev Team doesnt melee him except to WS (SATA WS) , and there are no surrounding Mobs i.e the 3 or 4 Aerns that spawn in that Alcove . I am still researching this theory , but i think its possible the use of Comet and Meteor are TP related

Just to state, the two spells listed (I cite them as spells, but they might be abilities too, hard to know for certain as neither appear to have any sort of timer attached) are not, at least from various people's research, TP based. They are triggered solely (at first) by their respective two hour, and then ultimately by the new list of abilities and behaviour available to AV at various HP %s. If you want proof, you can check this attempt, though not belonging to my own shell, in which a Manafont > Meteor combo, entirely unbased on TP is what wipes the alliance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFXdXauei2Y You can see at the end of the vid that while perhaps the initial Meteor was the product of spell based TP coming from the BLM line and their Fire III spammage, AV almost immediately uses a second Meteor when the PLDs attempt to kite it into the JoL Spawn Alcove away from the reraising mage line, then a third Meteor to wipe the PLDs after Fealty falls.

For the TP theory to hold true, his inate TP regain would have to nearly double under the conditions of CS / Manafont as when you're actually tanking him, his use of Javelin, Wing Thrust etc, is not as common as the use of Comet/Meteor.
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By Mikumaru 2009-12-10 14:33:07
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unless i am reading your post wrong , which is possible cuz i am retarded , if he's using Manafont he will use Meteor like a mofo . I'll check the vid but honestly i feel i have to conduct my own research on this since i cant find any info on ppl 'TP burning' AV , the affect of SCs and thier Elemental DMG have on AV and his AI . Just as you said thoe , his ability list changes as his HP does so with out fighting it and testing , its all conjecture .
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By Asura.Rielle 2009-12-10 14:35:57
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Until later percentage, he doesn't use them unless under the effects of a two hour, but it's hard to know if he's unable to or it's just something everyone's yet to see. Personally, my shell doesn't have the manpower to make a genuine attempt as we rarely float over the 18-man mark, so the majority of my own research is second hand unfortunately, gathered from every where else but Asura.
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By Mikumaru 2009-12-10 14:37:47
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and just to add as a P.S. having CS/MF up may add the 'spells' like 2hr BPs are added to BP:R under Astral Flow . It could be that it is a TP move and not Magic . After fighting , i dunnohowmany Aerns in Sea it would seem certain one favor certain moves over others . an Example of this is the Eo'Aern seem to use Disseverment more than any . the Aw'Aerns that pop out Ix'DRG seem to favor that AoE Stun move who's name elludes me ATM . eh w/e your probly right . <<<dumb taru ; . ;
 Asura.Rielle
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By Asura.Rielle 2009-12-10 14:44:46
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I think the DRG thing is also luck, if I had to say they favored a TP move it would be breath lol I do assume it's something like BP:R as well but I still think if it was TP based, he'd have to have an increase in regain while active -- still, thinking back over it, I can't actually remember him ever using a different TP move while those are activated but I'd be pretty sure that he had and I just don't remember. Regardless, it's neither here nor there as the real catch seems to be below 43% when he has unlimited access at all times.
 Fairy.Vytiss
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By Fairy.Vytiss 2009-12-10 15:10:58
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wiki's AV page has a good transcript of the Developer's "AV kill" video:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Absolute_Virtue/Developer_Strategy

Also, has it been confirmed that matching AV's 2hr also resets your own? I haven't done nearly enough BG digging, but in the Developer's video, many of the same characters use their 2hr multiple times.

*edited: i'm dumb, it does not reset. The developer's are just asshats and clipped multiple fights together into the video. Is it really that hard to just simply post 1 solid video?

anwyays, Go Go 40+ cor standing by @ AV for Wild Card.
with a ~3sec window to match AV's 2hr with your own to "lock it", the most proper way to do so w/o 3rd party programming is to spam ALL 2hrs, still on the unlocked list, when you see AV's animation.
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 Garuda.Hypnotizd
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By Garuda.Hypnotizd 2009-12-10 15:13:17
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Fairy.Vytiss said:
Also, has it been confirmed that matching AV's 2hr also resets your own? I haven't done nearly enough BG digging, but in the Developer's video, many of the same characters use their 2hr multiple times.
This was initial speculation when the video first came out. It has since been proven false. In the transcript you can see the same characters 2hr'ing multiple times with different jobs. The scenes are obviously from different fights during different AVs. This is also backed up by the fact that the day changes and the scenes are put together out of chronological order.

The Dev Video was also released before the JoL+AV = 2hr depop nerf was implemented. It was also speculated that this fight took place over many many hours which can no longer be the case.
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 Fairy.Vytiss
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By Fairy.Vytiss 2009-12-10 16:08:24
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that's what I thought... been reading AV threads off/on for ages now and I'm sure I would have remembered discussions about 2hr re-use if that theory was true.
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By Fairy.Vytiss 2009-12-16 10:23:33
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since SMN burning has become a bit of a trend ingame.... I've always wondered if anyone has ever tested a SMN AF-burn?
Pldx2 sch whm rdm brd tank pt#1 with outside cure party(s) assistance
Blmx4 rdm/brd/cor pt#2
and 3rd ally party being swapped in/out with half a dozen SMNx6 parties for Astral Flow pwnage?

who needs to lock 2hrs when you can just drop bombs?
 Fairy.Brenda
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By Fairy.Brenda 2009-12-16 10:53:44
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Astral Flow is generally weak past 70 because the level 70 BP do more dmg then Flow BP
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By Hades.Toralin 2009-12-16 11:15:04
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Fairy.Vytiss said:
who needs to lock 2hrs when you can just drop bombs?


you keep dropping your bombs, and AV will kepe using Benediction. Next.
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By Fairy.Vytiss 2009-12-16 14:03:57
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dumb questions usually lead to bright ideas, lol
i'm clearly not a SMN, but I guess that could also apply to any jobs' "one-hit-wonder", and cycle the damage through.

clearly then you'd have to lock benediction, or find a way to kill within 1min'ish before it can do Bene>other2hr>Bene, or lock 14/15.

otherwise, I guess my only other question... at the momemt... would be, has anyone found out whether 2hr locking as to be done by an alliance member? or can it be done with anyone on the hate-list outside of ally?
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