Antea Offhand - BLU

Yeah I don't do namis anymore and 99% of the time I was on blm or rdm. Actually you can say that about alot of my events really.

it's the same here recently, nin or rdm (though when I'm on rdm I'm tanking too, lol). I really don't think the server mergers SE recently made helped much, lol.

I love doing this, but I don't do Dynamis anymore :( Even when I did I was almost always BLM. Trying to get my Ein eader to let me manage crowd control there, should be fun...

biggest reason it's so awesome/fun is that you can generate hate on multiple enemies so easily and take very little damage from a large horde when built for it, lol.

I'd rate crowd control blu as one of the more important jobs in dyn.-xarc, after having done it, since the normal sleepers are so squishy (they have better things to worry over other than whether or not they'll die when the enemies wake up too, lol). my ls had started going in with less than an alliance when I started screwing around with it, and it made runs so much smoother, lol.

See this is kinda a problem with BLUs, they put too much emphasis on spells, and often overestimate the effect of stats on their spells.

The higher Delay doesn't mean much, you still swing more, and gain tp faster. More tp per hit due to higher delay, may change X-hit builds.

The absolute most stats you can get for spell+ on an offhand sword is 4DEX/STR. If you're meleeing, that is easily, very easily, outweighed by the greater dps and WS frequency.

It's the equivalent of giving up over 10% of your offhand DPS and 20% of your total tp gain, so you can get a little under 30 damage extra on your Disseverment?

your numbers are off by quite a bit actually, lol.

I've done some crowd control in namis too. But mostly my crowd control is just extra with my DDing and stunning alot. So you knwo running around and flashing/stunning everything that wakes up. Hell using def down for hate lol. Headbutting stuff until mages manage to sleep.

One day I think I'll mess with full out crowd control. I just don't like the range of the spells. Very annoying on the longer casting ones. Or was recently playing around with AOE bind/grav and it would miss targets that were like right next to me and the target of the spell. And by miss I don't mean resist just not even get them

I couldn't imagine doing crowd control in Dynamis on BLU :x *** that noise. Ein and Limbus (lol) are different stories.

it's a very nice build (crowd control), there's very few instances where it's really useful though (mostly only in instances like xarc where you're dealing with multiple enemies that resist sleeps and can easily skull rape your sleepers, lol), but in those instances it's more than awesome and can make a big difference.

Exactly what numbers are off by a bit? The TP is relatively close to 20% more when offhanding true Antea, the DPS of Antea is better than say Koggelmander by more than 10%, and 4dex/str adds less than 30 damage to Disseverment barring CA.

tp gain isn't quite 20% greater 'cause you're not accounting for delay. it's only gaing tp 20% faster than IT'S SELF if it didn't occasionally attack twice at a 40% proc. rate. other decent swords attack ~12%+ faster (slightly over 12% in the weakest case), and everyone of them will average slightly higher dmg hit-for-hit (I can pull out the delay of the attack rounds needed to reach 100% tp, but I doubt the varriance will be greater than 10%). yes it's still better, but not by the degree you're trying to make it out to be, lol.

If getting 100% TP was the main concern, wouldn't people TP faster with just main-handing Antea dmg 40 OAT, and using a shield? I mean, anyone who has a Joytoy can see that if you dual-wield a OAT weapon and a single attack weapon, you're just going to slow your TP gain.

The only thing the other sword would be good for is to improve your stats and WS damage, but it's going to weigh down your TP gain. Wonder if anyone did the numbers for this.

If your primary method of damage is Disseverment, then your concern isn't TP so much as powering up Disseverment. If you're trying to fire off 300% Cannonballs as fast as you can, then yeah, Antea would be your best bet.

I'm also thinking about situations where MP is a tough thing to get(which is fairly often for a BLU). In this, you'd need to improve your melee DoT to make up for the lack of Disseverments you can do. The minimal stats lost in the sub-wielded sword wouldn't likely cover the amount of melee DoT you could do by just using Antea.

In a situation where 1. the mob will be dead by the time you're out of MP(imp solo) or 2. RDM+BRD in party to help fuel you - It seems obvious that you'd want to dual-wield for those extra stats as your main form of damage will be spells, and much much less melee DoT.

Extra: The above post is still stats about dual-wielding. But with all that haste and the lowered delay of just using Antea, I think it'd win out since you'll see the double attack proc a lot more in the same amount of time frame of using two weapons(increasing the delay).

After doing the math for Perdu/Antea vs Perdu/Koggel, Perdu/Antea gains over 15% more tp than Perdu/Koggel. Close enough for what was a guesstimation. This is with 5%DA, 6STP, and +8% DW in equipment.

No one cares about a hit for hit damage, it's all about dps, so you'd be sacrificing 15% of your overall tp gain and 10% of your offhand dps, for 30 extra damage on a non-ca Disseverment.

As for Antea single handed, it's hands down the fastest tp gaining tool, gaining tp about 10% faster than P/A but you do lose a decent chunk of ATK, some base damage on WSs, and DPS due to not getting the same 23% Delay reduction from Dual Wield.

The math done by doc shows perdu/antea and perdu/koggel are very very close to even in a 50/50 melee/magic split (melee including ws and melee regular). I like the looks of this sword too for situations where melee is dominant, but don't be throwing out statements that it beats all other offhands straight up. Koggel and antea both can win depending on the buffing situations and mob.

In regards to single weilding antea, dual wield II reduces delay by 15%. It would require some math reworking to determine if that was viable at all (and with what sub, as /war double attack has less substance with an OAT weapon I believe).

Edit: His math shows the damage/sec rather than damage per hit. The melee frequency and ws frequency are included.

I don't understand?

Anyone with a Joytoy can go out and parse this:

- Dual-wield Joytoy and any other high end sword that doesn't have multiple attacks. Observe your DoT.

- Single hand Joytoy and observe your DoT.

In a situation like the post above, where you're getting double marches and haste, I'd be willing to say that the Joytoy alone would outparse the dual-wield.

This doesn't apply to WARs who dual-wield a Ridill in the off-hand, because really the WARs are just keeping their powerful Axe Weaponskills, while improving their TP rate with the Ridill.

As I recall, Doc used meat + acc gear with uncapped accuracy rather than cap accuracy with sushi and trade in some acc gear for attack. This reduces the accuracy of his math somewhat (favors /Kogg a bit more than it normally would) but it's still close to the mark. A pizza build and ignoring the fact that Colibri eat your food (hypothetical ~400 acc cap mob for instance) likely would have been the best approach since pizza's often the way to go these days. However, it is worth noting that /Koggel would have that extra edge if you're a bit under capped hitrate.

Let me put it like this:
On anything that you're BLU/NIN on, and can/should melee, and have proper melee buffs for (any merit pt or ls event should have a *** brd), P/A will slaughter P/K simply due to the greater DoT and more WSs, unless your TP gear absolutely sucks.

This is because the better your gear, and buffs, the MORE your Sword DoT should account for.

For Simplicity's sake: If your gear sucks so bad that you're not getting more than 30 damage more than P/K with P/A in 30 seconds, you have some issues that need to be addressed, be it with your pt, ls, or wallet.

What does double marches and haste have to do with anything?

And the situation is very clear above. It's a bird meripo, with the BRD using double marches, and you're getting haste, which means you're likely getting refresh as well. Gear fresh(1) + auto fresh(1) + fresh(3) + sanction(1) is 6mp/tick. Disseverment is 74 mp which would be 13 ticks which is 39 seconds. So, between those 39 seconds, you're either trying to DPS more or you're casting MP Drainkiss for more Disseverment.

Will the 15 extra damage every 39 seconds with the other sword's stats help your DPS if the Antea alone is improving your melee DoT?

Faster attacks = more times the 45% OAT will proc in a given amount of time if it's a standalone vs. dual-wield.

Haste gives the same increase to both setups. Look at it as a % increase rather than a certain amount more attacks in a given timeframe.

the only reason war's DW with ridill off and maneater main is because they don't realize that ridill main and joy off will net more total dps (most also don't realize that you don't necessairly want to be doing this with brutal earring equipped either as double attack will lower the overall dps of weapons that can attack up to 3 times). there are also times when dual wielding with a 'normal' weapon main hand an' multi-attack off will deal more dps, but those are mostly special cases where it's done to benefit WS damage as you tried to point out.

haste really has nothing to do with the difference in dps unless the weapon it's self has haste on it, this is because for comparison's sake both tests should be conducted/simulated with the same base variables (doing it any other way scews results).


my own results were a ~25% decrease in time to 100%, and this was perdu/antea v. perdu/koggle with similar stats not including the double attack (at 5% from brutal the results would be about the same when we toss hit-rate cap into the mix any way), so I was quite a bit off there, lol (antea's delay takes the setup 1 round under perdu/koggle before additional attacks are calculated). but you're also trying to dismiss the difference in dmg stating it has no effect on dps, in this case the difference in dmg translates roughly into 4% for dual wield (of course for the low damage antea this is a difference of 43% during dual wield, further solidifying any doubts against it).

so the increase is somewhere around 20% dps. if you want to look further into it the total increase is closer to 8% when spells are added with conservative useage (normally 40% melee : 60% other), but that's besides the point.

I'm going Kogg/antea myself 8D

I think the loss of the 15 atk and 5 acc would hurt your DoT more than the less than 3 base damage boost to your spells would help.