IiPunch - Monk Guide

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iiPunch - Monk Guide
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-12-16 04:06:26
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Azagarth how do you reach 55% WSD without DM augments?
I can only think of:
AF+3 hands (10%)
Ambu+2 legs (7%)
3x Herc pieces (max 5% each)
Ambu cape (10%)

That amounts to 42%.
I'm probably missing something that can't come to mind now, the question is what?

Is FH better than Howling Fist with that WSD set?
Because we might fall into the scnario of having to compare FH to HF and not VS, if that set really is that good.
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2017-12-16 04:11:23
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Knob and Ishvara. Or Karieyh.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-12-16 08:54:54
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
I think that may have been accurate before the implementation of ~50% wsd we have now thats been a relatively recent addition. I am not finding a 15% gap personally, and my VS set is technically "better" than my FH set too.

Even if it was 15%, lets say you do 20k (way over VS avg) your looking at 3k dmg that 15KA would have to make up. I am very confident in the min its up or longer your looking at easily 3k dmg in kick attacks.

You would want to total your number of KA or the amount of KA damage over the duration and calculate 15% of that and attribute it to Aftermath. Then decide if that amount makes up for the missing WS damage.
Remember, you'll be kicking with or without Aftermath. Only 15% is gained by using a Final Heaven.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-12-16 11:55:53
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Azagarth how do you reach 55% WSD without DM augments?
I can only think of:
AF+3 hands (10%)
Ambu+2 legs (7%)
3x Herc pieces (max 5% each)
Ambu cape (10%)

That amounts to 42%.
I'm probably missing something that can't come to mind now, the question is what?

Is FH better than Howling Fist with that WSD set?
Because we might fall into the scnario of having to compare FH to HF and not VS, if that set really is that good.
Sylph.Oraen said: »
Knob and Ishvara. Or Karieyh.

that puts you at 50% then more if you got ring.

I am geting better avg at 1k with FH than HF using my HF set still on FH (like I said I have yet to optimize FH). I am technically missing a possible 60 VIT in my FH set whereas my HF set is nearly perfect.

I am personally happy with Spharai and its dps output. I am not seeing much difference from godhands in terms of practical kill speed. However, the added counter has been very nice and noticeable. The attack to boot seems nice too since I use mnk lowman where I oftentimes am not attack capped.

I guess what it comes down to is pick any REA and your good on mnk, I plan to get vere next so I can compare all 3. Vere seems interesting to me for sure, I 'think' it could perform well, but honestly your looking at needing 3k tp to get the 50% tripple, and it still only procs on 1 possible hit a round like relic. I doubt white dmg will really be drastically different between the 2 in real use. That base dmg is just so low, and that alone could eqalize it out. Then your at this issue of lower base dmg dmg on vere (but 50 str).

I parse vs my vere mnk friend often enough to know VS avg with vere is a bit higher, but not very much over my godhands and I would asume because that huge crit bonus from tp is keeping avgs more consistent with godhands.... but regardless I want a pair haha.
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-12-16 12:33:05
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Yes, there is a difference between the weapon/set/weapon skill with the most potential and the weapon/set/weapon skill that really does best for any given player since any given player's gear and buffs can vary greatly from another.

For example, if pushing a weapon to its maximum potential, the Attack on Spharai should have no impact whatsoever. Also, if using a tank (or other DDs that will surely have hate ahead of any MNK), the Counter will also have no impact whatsoever.
But if playing without capping Attack and without a tank, those two stats could be very beneficial.

Enjoy your toys! As you make them all and find a niche for each that fits your playstyle, also include your buffs and gear, where applicable, and you may be able to help others doing things in a similar way and on a similar path.
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By pchan 2017-12-16 15:01:24
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says the guy that only swears by godhands...

Spharai is very close to vere. When I did my sim even if I added the kick full time to spharai it wouldn't do much better. 15KA is very little honestly.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-12-16 17:44:53
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
Sylph.Oraen said: »
Knob and Ishvara. Or Karieyh.

that puts you at 50% then more if you got ring.
Ok thanks guys.
Knob's 6% is ok for the slot, also adds att if you're uncapped (hint hint, you probably gonna be).

Ishvara and Kariyeh+1 though... I'm bit unconvinced.
Don't think 4% WSD is gonna beat Regal and Niqmaddu?
For earring maybe, uh, as second earring I guess.
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2017-12-16 18:11:50
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What else are you using in the ear slot for Final Heaven? Handler's Earring for 5 VIT? Odnowa for 3 STR/VIT? 2% WSD beats other options easily.

For rings, 4% WSD is nothing to scoff at.
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-12-16 23:05:26
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I got asked to put my tp set up, that I use, so here it is:

ItemSet 355454

I am happy to hear any advice, I am always wondering if I should be changing legs/feet and even the others, no gear limitations. I am also debating stp or DA on mantle.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-12-17 07:17:21
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Sylph.Oraen said: »
For rings, 4% WSD is nothing to scoff at.
Glad to be proven wrong, but I don't see it beating Regal and Niqmaddu, especially if att uncapped.

Isn't FH 80% VIT?
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-12-17 09:23:18
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Someone should tell SE that they updated Monk in the wrong game!

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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-12-17 13:31:25
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Well at least they are looking at mnk! trickle down maybe....

Make mnk great again SE!
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By Blazed1979 2017-12-17 13:53:21
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Someone should tell SE that they updated Monk in the wrong game!

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shitty nq koenig knuckles.

the direction they're taking MNK in future games is lense flare elemental vomit?
I'll stick with streets of rage 1 and 2 and final fight. dont need rainbows on these fists!
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stupid SE
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By Odinz 2017-12-17 14:02:34
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 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2017-12-17 15:29:53
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Sylph.Oraen said: »
For rings, 4% WSD is nothing to scoff at.
Glad to be proven wrong, but I don't see it beating Regal and Niqmaddu, especially if att uncapped.

Isn't FH 80% VIT?

Fudo is 80% STR, but Karieyh +1 is recommended as a replacement to either Regal or Niqmaddu, depending on accuracy needs. Last I checked, Karieyh +1 was also best for Rudra's (80% DEX), as well. It doesn't win by some extreme margin, but it is technically the best choice if you don't want any of the other rings.

Personally, I prefer using my Adoulin Ring on another option, but there's plenty of support for Karieyh being the best option for specific WSs. 4% WSD contributes more than you're giving it credit for.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-17 15:33:46
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regal is equal to or better than karieyh +1 at capped attack for fudo.

wsd also has diminishing marginal utility.
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2017-12-17 15:44:43
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I went off Ejiin's sets, which use Karieyh, but haven't checked your sim. If my comment was incorrect, then that's on me and apologies for wrong info.

EDIT: Checked your sim. Used default TP set and only swapped Regal and Karieyh +1 with eachother. Did 5 sims for each option, and there seemed to be a decent amount of variance per test. At the end, wound up with an average of Regal with 8205.326 vs Karieyh +1 with 8236.108. Can post results if that's preferable. I haven't used your sim much at all, so how many tests would you generally recommend before coming to a conclusion?

Can move this topic over to the SAM thread if people would prefer, but seeing as how the MNK thread seems to be a haven for shitposting, I'll stick it here for the moment.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-17 16:55:19
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sorry, I didn't see the edit

but that's like 1/3% difference. which is why I would just consider them equal in best case for karieyeh. also, by default i think it had da valor hands instead of wsd when I added relic and volte to it, it pushed the list down
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2017-12-17 17:08:42
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I 100% agree on that, I just wanted to test what was technically best. I don't recommend Karieyh for the ring reward while Vocane and Weatherspoon exist, maybe even Orvail for crafting.

Checked the sim again and the default Fudo hands are still WSD, so I don't think you mixed anything up.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-12-17 17:39:19
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Sylph.Oraen said: »
Fudo is 80% STR, but Karieyh +1 is recommended as a replacement to either Regal or Niqmaddu, depending on accuracy needs. Last I checked, Karieyh +1 was also best for Rudra's (80% DEX), as well. It doesn't win by some extreme margin, but it is technically the best choice if you don't want any of the other rings.
While I'm still slightly skeptic, I can see it more likely for those two WS.
FH and HW, though, aren't 1hit so they both gonna receive half as much (well... almost) benefit compared to Rudra/Fudo.


Edit:
Just saw you folks' other posts.
If Kariyeh is equal/slightly better than Regal/Niqmaddu at best, noway the same is gonna happen for multihit WS like FH or HF.
Unless I'm missing something?
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-12-17 17:40:44
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well when i add new gear internally instead of to the txt file, it changes the index number to a piece when something new gets added (because i sort it alphabetically.) so on the defaults it uses the same index and the gear assigned to the index may have changed.
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2017-12-17 17:44:10
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Alright I understand what you meant better, now. Apologies.
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By Nariont 2017-12-18 04:42:40
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Asura.Sechs said: »
multihit WS like FH or HF.
Unless I'm missing something?

FH and HF are 1 hit arent they? H2h just functions like dw in the case of an off hand hit which typically doesnt add a whole lot compared to the 1st hit.
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-12-18 12:34:32
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Final Heaven isn't exactly Rudra's Storm. Assuming no multiattack procs, the offhand is still contributing about 18% of your total damage even with 50% +WS DMG.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [36 days between previous and next post]
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By SimonSes 2018-01-23 10:23:15
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I'm not sure about WSD on Final Heaven in every possible slot, because double/triple attacks has increased value with Spharai adding +40% to additional hits too.

For example this Ishvara Earring mentioned here. It's just WSD2%. Assuming WSD+ is multiplicative with Fotia +0.1 fTP you are looking at 3.1 x 0.02 x 1.4 = ~0.09 fTP increase from that earring. While Brutal Earring is 0.05 x 2 x 1.4 = 0.14 increase to fTP on average.

Same goes for Keriah ring +1. It's on average a ~0.17 increase to fTP . While Epona is ~0.25 increase to fTP .

Also all Herc pieces by very small margin also favor TA+4% (0.224 increase) over 5%WSD (0.217 increase). So imo only AF+3 hands, Hiza. legs, Ambu cape and Ammo should be in optimal FH set.

I could be wrong tho. Haven't done much calculation in this game for the past several years :P
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-01-23 10:55:06
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wut
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By SimonSes 2018-01-23 13:36:16
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Lol I have just noticed how this turned out lol. I will try to fix it.

EDIT: Ok fixed. Unless you meant that you haven't understood what I wrote in my comment and you have some questions? Then you need to be more specific.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-01-23 17:03:09
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Sylph.Oraen said: »
I 100% agree on that, I just wanted to test what was technically best. I don't recommend Karieyh for the ring reward while Vocane and Weatherspoon exist, maybe even Orvail for crafting.

Checked the sim again and the default Fudo hands are still WSD, so I don't think you mixed anything up.

While I agree with your essential point...

Real talk: Vocane why? Even for a career PLD or RUN tank, it's not difficult to cap DT anyway without needing that slot which you can put to better use (Shadow, Eihwaz, various resistance rings, Vexer+1, Meva rings, offensive stuff).

I guess you could get it to make your all non-tank job DT sets a little easier to manage, but even then most of my jobs can cap anyway or would still hit something like 47-49% with imperfect gear sets. The difference between that and spending a one-ring reward on Vocane just because OMG CAPPED is so small as a practical matter (i.e. realistically is never the difference between death and not) to not be worth it to me to waste a reward choice.

Incremental offensive gain, even if it's minor, helps you clear content faster so it has value. Incremental defensive gain, as long as NOT having it won't cause you death, is ultimately fairly useless.

Also, in addition to Weatherspoon and Orvail:
Haverton has its niche, phenomenal for COR as best Racc ring and the ONLY snapshot or significant DW ring. The snapshot and Racc are quite useful if you play RNG too, though purely picking for RNG you'd prob want to go Weatherspoon for Trueflight (so it's more for either a COR devotee or someone who regularly plays both RNG and COR).

Thurandaut is unique as a pet option for defensive purposes and a nice hybrid offense/defensive pet piece. Though as a former owner on PUP, once Varar Rings existed I didn't really need it any more. Nice as you're gearing up a PUP tank and learning, but once you have a good tanking set and 1200JP your puppet is essentially invincible anyway so a little more DT- is the least of your concerns.

Sorry for the semi-derail. I've just always been a little puzzled by Vocane's (undeserving?) popularity. I guess I could only really see it being worthwhile if you play no mages, ranged, or pet jobs and don't like crafting. And even then, I'd personally take 18% movement speed on all jobs over redundant DT. I guess after ALL that, I'd go with Vocane (and never get to Kariyeh).
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2018-01-23 17:03:58
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By Boshi 2018-01-23 17:43:03
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Haverton ring with Dw6 is prob bis for all dw jobs except nin & dnc
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